Would you have Rafa back?

[Monster Masch]

No, he inherited a team that finished 5th in the league, actually.

 

Huh?

[goatboy59]

"Fat Spanish c*nt" anyone?

 

no thanks.

[goatboy59]

No, he inherited a team that finished 5th in the league, actually.

 

And you can't do anything in the CL from 5th pla-.........

 

Ah.

[theghost]

Well, to be fair, Rafa is fat and Spanish, and Roy's trousers probably have a faint with of piss about them.

[Kopite]

Now would not be the right time for a return. If Roy hangs on to the summer then who knows?

 

If Roy hangs on until the summer Andrew, Allardyce would be welcome ;o)

[Il Fenomeno]

Huh?

 

Well if Rafa inherited a team capable of winning the CL at Valencia, even though they finished 5th, then surely Hodgson has inherited a side capable of challenging for the title?

[myrlas]

Have to say I'm surprised that, on here especially, a majority of fans want to give Rafa another shot at LFC. It seems to me that many of those who voted 'yes' looked at the question as 'would you rather have Rafa here over Roy?' and voted on that basis. That, at least, would make sense and be in keeping with the tedious 'debates' surrounding both of them over the last months, although I don't see why so many fans believe the only two managers in club football are Benitez and Hodgson, and that any criticism/defence of one is inferred as a criticism/defence of the other.

 

Anyway, bringing Rafa back would be a disasterous decision IMO, one which would make my faith in NESV's judgement fall through the floor. Although I wanted him out by the end, I never had the same resentment for him that others do, and I genuinely wish him all the best for the future, but he's shown time and again that he struggles to work with people, and has no qualms about mouthing off to the media when he dosen't get what he wants - which is ultimately total control over every footballing decision at the club. NESV, both in what they've said, their record in the States, and in appointing a DOF, want management by consensus. Whether or not you agree with this aproach, it's as clear as fucking day that Rafa dosen't. The idea that he could work with Comolli is ridiculous IMO.

 

Totally agree with all of that

[Delmar]

Have I?

 

Why is it Rafa`s Valencia never really made much of an impression in the CL then, lets not forget this was a team which had reached two CL finals in a row under Cuper.

 

The answer to this and the progress of English clubs is very simple. People learn things. Even Ferguson. Talented people learn faster. Sure, you need money and resources, but some of the real talents like Mourinho or Benitez observe, learn, and then on top of that work harder than others.

[Code]

The answer to this and the progress of English clubs is very simple. People learn things. Even Ferguson. Talented people learn faster. Sure, you need money and resources, but some of the real talents like Mourinho or Benitez observe, learn, and then on top of that work harder than others.

 

Funny how they all collectively learned after the Russian money were pumped into the league then and the other big clubs had to follow up?

[RobbieOR]

During his time here his rank is almost idenical with every other manager who has been at either Arsenal, the mancs and Chelsea.

 

Our success in the CL has got a lot more to do with the position of the PL than Rafa`s actual ability as a manager.

 

I dont have time to do the comparison but look at semi finals reached and you will understand what I`m talking about.

 

Suddenly managers like Ferguson and Wenger who for a long period of time were considered jokes in Europe constantly reached quater and semi finals, maybe that will help you get another perspective.

 

We were doing good in Europe but so did every other English club at the time.

 

Dont talk shit. Even Mancs I know dont say that about our European success.

[Code]

Dont talk shit. Even Mancs I know dont say that about our European success.

 

Does that suppose to mean anything?

 

What the fuck would mancs know?

[RobbieOR]

Does that suppose to mean anything?

 

What the fuck would mancs know?

 

That they are bitter, they hate Benitez and they put down his achievements. Just like you did.

 

If our success was down to the league being so strong, why didnt Chelsea do better than us in Europe?

[Andy M]

Aside from his final season in charge, I honestly don't understand the animosity towards Rafa from Liverpool fans. I wasn't happy with the way he dealt with Alonso or the constant politicking, but these things happen in football.

 

Surely one bad season doesn't mean the guy is a total write-off? It certainly doesn't mean he's a c*nt.

[Delmar]

Funny how they all collectively learned after the Russian money were pumped into the league then and the other big clubs had to follow up?

 

No, you look at the individuals, not the collective. These managers had to learn their trade, how to win championships and cups, and they did.

 

Mourinho - hugely talented, works like crazy, won CL with no money. Then did well with a lot of money, and is doing well with the biggest money around. Benitez - hugely talented, works like crazy, won La Liga with not a lot of money, and CL with our leftovers. Wenger - took a little longer, but hugely talented, works like crazy, won the PL and should already have a CL. Freguson - well, he is an asshole and the dumbest of them all, but even he learned how to win in Europe (by copying us). And he puts in a shift, as well.

 

Now you have Guardiola, same characteristics, some younger managers like he Atletico Madrid dude, your man in Copenhagen, couple of Gemermans, and you will see, the talent rises to the top if it is combined with ambition and work ethic. And learning...

[Code]

That they are bitter, they hate Benitez and they put down his achievements. Just you did.

 

If our success was down to the league being so strong, why didnt Chelsea do better than us in Europe?

 

They did, at last the way I look at it.

 

Even before Rafa came to this club I`ve argued that to measure success and quality in historical terms its better to count finals reached and even semi finals reached than finals actual won.

 

The reason for this is that a final and a semi final are usually very close games and often won on penalties, it makes no sense to me to claim that a manager who wins a final on penalties has got more nous than one who loses on penalties or that a team who reaches a final because of penalties or away goals are a better team than the one who lose.

 

One example could be Juventus from the 90`s, they reached 3 finals in a row but just won one of them, now try to find me someone who would argue Dortmund were just as good a team as Juventus back then?

[Delmar]

They did, at last the way I look at it.

 

Even before Rafa came to this club I`ve argued that to measure success and quality in historical terms its better to count finals reached and even semi finals reached than finals actual won.

 

The reason for this is that a final and a semi final are usually very close games and often won on penalties, it makes no sense to me to claim that a manager who wins a final on penalties has got more nous than one who loses on penalties or that a team who reaches a final because of penalties or away goals are a better team than the one who lose.

 

Football does not work that way. The team that wins, wins, not the team that should win, it's not boxing or ice skating. But possibly you know that.

[Code]

Football does not work that way. The team that wins, wins, not the team that should win, it's not boxing or ice skating. But possibly you know that.

 

Have I ever claimed otherwise, I`m just trying to put some perspective into this submission of Rafa`s awesomeness in Europe.

[Guest PurpleNose]

Chelsea have done better than us in the Champions League.

 

Haha.

 

You're a fucking WUM, Code.

[Delmar]

Have I ever claimed otherwise, I`m just trying to put some perspective into this submission of Rafa`s awesomeness in Europe.

 

The perspective is the wins. Not semi finals, not runners up. That's why the 86 points and 2nd in the PL counts for good entertainment only. And that's why my biggest disappointment with Rafa was Athens, I'd think that he might think so too.

[Juan Galonso]

"Fat Spanish c*nt" anyone?

 

 

Who me? On here? Never.

[kop77]

 

YES YES YES

[kop77]

BHB RATTEL.

 

Quote:

Rafael Benitez: The Summary

 

Has Liverpool Football Club ever had a more divisive manager than Rafael Benitez?

 

We all know lads that adore him, some that like him, some that aren’t too keen on him and some that absolutely despise him; all for various different reasons; some more valid than others.

 

When he first came to the club, he arrived on the back of toppling Barcelona and Real Madrid in Spain; guiding his impressive Valencia side to a UEFA Cup win and two La Liga titles, earning them the title of “the crushing machine” due to their high pressure pressing game. They played high up the field, pressed the opposition, passed the ball well and hunted in packs to win the ball back, very similar to the Barcelona side of today. They crushed the opposition, as we witnessed for ourselves when his Valencia side came to Anfield and destroyed us. We couldn’t get near them.

 

He immediately imposed his style of play to our side. We came from behind to beat Man City in his first home game, achieving something we hadn’t done for a very long time; coming from behind to win a game. He added Alonso and Garcia to the midfield and began to drill his ideas into the side from the minute he arrived at Melwood.

 

It was going to take time to adapt to The Premier League and English football, and he failed to understand the importance of the FA Cup when fielding an under strength side at Burnley in the 3rd round. He was slaughtered for that, but he learnt from it. So much so we went out and won the FA Cup the following year.

 

During that first season, our league form suffered due to the prioritisation of The European Cup. He was criticised for that approach by some, but I always believed it was because he knew we didn’t have the squad capable of winning the league, so he prioritised a competition he could win. We didn’t have a squad capable of competing on both fronts, so efforts were concentrated on the achievable, while gradually working to improve the size and strength of the squad to be able to challenge on both fronts in the coming years.

 

That season, we had the amazing night against Olympiakos, the destruction of Bayer Leverkusen, the toppling of Juventus in the quarter final, and the unforgettable night against Chelsea in the semi final. That journey to Istanbul will never be forgotten, and it was all masterminded by Rafael Benitez. It was a season that’ll never be forgotten. By some of us anyway.

 

The following year our league form improved, and additions of Pepe Reina, Daniel Agger, Momo Sissoko and Peter Crouch strengthened the squad considerably. In his first season we finished on 58 points and ended the year as European Champions. In his second season we posted a figure of 82 points in finishing 3rd, which was an enormous improvement on the previous year. It is no coincidence our league form improved after being knocked out of Europe by Benfica, allowing full concentration on the league at the business end of the season with a bigger and better squad than the year before.

 

The progression was there for all to see. We also had that brilliant FA Cup semi final against Chelsea at Old Trafford, and the dramatic Final against West Ham in Cardiff.

 

In his third season, we again finished 3rd in the league, but also reached yet another European Cup Final in Athens; beating Chelsea yet again along the way.

 

People will always have criticisms of decisions a manager makes – I thought the decision to leave Crouch out of the starting line up in Athens was a huge one – but over his reign as manager, Rafael Benitez made far more good decisions than bad ones, and that is what is sometimes missed by those that want more, more and more.

 

In his 4th season in charge, we finished 4th with 76 points, while Fernando Torres was bought from Athletico Madrid.

 

In his 5th year, we recorded our highest points total in over 20 years, when finishing in 2nd place with 86 points. We came within a whisker of winning the League Title, and everyone at Craven Cottage that afternoon when Benayoun scored the late winner really believed we would do it.

 

United had huge strokes of fortune in home games against Aston Villa and Tottenham, while we drew 4-4 with Arsenal despite battering them all game, and they scored with their only 4 shots all night. We were that close to the title.

 

Of course people will point back to the draws with Stoke, Everton and Wigan earlier in the season for the reason we missed out on the title – and they have a point – but the poor decisions made in those games are far outweighed by the good decisions made in others. It’s all about looking at the bigger picture rather than pin pointing specific games or incidents.

 

Just like people point to him taking off Torres at Birmingham, Gerrard at Wigan (I was guilty of that) among others, yet fail to acknowledge his superb record with substitutes that change games. For every poor substitution like those listed above, there were 5 good ones that changed games. The bigger picture.

 

People criticise his record in the transfer market, but then fail to acknowledge the signings like Torres, Reina, Agger, Mascherano, Alonso, Garcia.....

 

People criticise his policy of buying dozens of youth players, yet fail to acknowledge that no player had come through from the Academy since Steven Gerrard, and it obviously wasn’t working. We now have a handful of top class prospects on the verge of the first team that Rafael Benitez brought to the club. He was buying for the future, developing our youth system, bringing over top class coaches from Barcelona to develop our younger players and change the system that had failed the club for the past 10 years. People want to see a quick fix though. The bigger picture.

 

Last season was a disaster and everyone knows it was far from acceptable. But was it the right decision to sack the manager on the back of one bad year?

 

Was it right to dismantle the work he’d done with the youth set up? Was it right to ignore the mess that Gillett and Hicks had caused and the effect that had on Rafa and the players? Was it right to ignore all those other factors that combined to result in a 7th place finish and just blame it all on the manager? The bigger picture.

 

A decision was made to sack him and look where we are now.

 

History will be kind to Rafa’s reign at Anfield.

 

It might take a few years for people to sit back and reflect upon everything he achieved here, weighing it up against the factors involved, competition we were up against and how difficult a task he actually faced; and who knows what would have happened had Gillett and Hicks not walked through our doors in 2007? The blame for our demise lies firmly at their feet for me – not with the manager. Criticise him by all means, but blame him for everything? Not a chance.

 

Roy Hodgson is a joke of a manager, and without Hicks, Gillett and Purslow darkening Anfield, he wouldn’t have been within a mile of becoming our manager.

 

There is one manager in the world at the minute that is the perfect fit for the Anfield hotseat: the one that was kicked out of it 6 months ago.

 

Reflect on the past 6 years in full and decide if he’s too negative, wasted money on sh1te, too stubborn or whatever else you want to accuse him of. Maybe you had become bored and wanted a change. Maybe you had your expectations raised by the man you now criticise.

 

New owners, new strategy, new start, old manager.

[Guest the boy]

Funny how they all collectively learned after the Russian money were pumped into the league then and the other big clubs had to follow up?

 

The flaw to your master theory, of course, is that we achieved our successes without the money that was pumped into Chelsea, on a wage bill that was dwarfed by United's and with players who cost a fraction of the price. Benitez also set the trend for English successes in Europe: Ferguson is the only manager to have equalled him, and talking in terms of the competition between 2005-2010, equalled is the word.

[Guest the boy]

god bless BHB.

[ronnie38]

BHB RATTEL.

 

Quote:

Rafael Benitez: The Summary

 

Has Liverpool Football Club ever had a more divisive manager than Rafael Benitez?

 

We all know lads that adore him, some that like him, some that aren’t too keen on him and some that absolutely despise him; all for various different reasons; some more valid than others.

 

When he first came to the club, he arrived on the back of toppling Barcelona and Real Madrid in Spain; guiding his impressive Valencia side to a UEFA Cup win and two La Liga titles, earning them the title of “the crushing machine” due to their high pressure pressing game. They played high up the field, pressed the opposition, passed the ball well and hunted in packs to win the ball back, very similar to the Barcelona side of today. They crushed the opposition, as we witnessed for ourselves when his Valencia side came to Anfield and destroyed us. We couldn’t get near them.

 

He immediately imposed his style of play to our side. We came from behind to beat Man City in his first home game, achieving something we hadn’t done for a very long time; coming from behind to win a game. He added Alonso and Garcia to the midfield and began to drill his ideas into the side from the minute he arrived at Melwood.

 

It was going to take time to adapt to The Premier League and English football, and he failed to understand the importance of the FA Cup when fielding an under strength side at Burnley in the 3rd round. He was slaughtered for that, but he learnt from it. So much so we went out and won the FA Cup the following year.

 

During that first season, our league form suffered due to the prioritisation of The European Cup. He was criticised for that approach by some, but I always believed it was because he knew we didn’t have the squad capable of winning the league, so he prioritised a competition he could win. We didn’t have a squad capable of competing on both fronts, so efforts were concentrated on the achievable, while gradually working to improve the size and strength of the squad to be able to challenge on both fronts in the coming years.

 

That season, we had the amazing night against Olympiakos, the destruction of Bayer Leverkusen, the toppling of Juventus in the quarter final, and the unforgettable night against Chelsea in the semi final. That journey to Istanbul will never be forgotten, and it was all masterminded by Rafael Benitez. It was a season that’ll never be forgotten. By some of us anyway.

 

The following year our league form improved, and additions of Pepe Reina, Daniel Agger, Momo Sissoko and Peter Crouch strengthened the squad considerably. In his first season we finished on 58 points and ended the year as European Champions. In his second season we posted a figure of 82 points in finishing 3rd, which was an enormous improvement on the previous year. It is no coincidence our league form improved after being knocked out of Europe by Benfica, allowing full concentration on the league at the business end of the season with a bigger and better squad than the year before.

 

The progression was there for all to see. We also had that brilliant FA Cup semi final against Chelsea at Old Trafford, and the dramatic Final against West Ham in Cardiff.

 

In his third season, we again finished 3rd in the league, but also reached yet another European Cup Final in Athens; beating Chelsea yet again along the way.

 

People will always have criticisms of decisions a manager makes – I thought the decision to leave Crouch out of the starting line up in Athens was a huge one – but over his reign as manager, Rafael Benitez made far more good decisions than bad ones, and that is what is sometimes missed by those that want more, more and more.

 

In his 4th season in charge, we finished 4th with 76 points, while Fernando Torres was bought from Athletico Madrid.

 

In his 5th year, we recorded our highest points total in over 20 years, when finishing in 2nd place with 86 points. We came within a whisker of winning the League Title, and everyone at Craven Cottage that afternoon when Benayoun scored the late winner really believed we would do it.

 

United had huge strokes of fortune in home games against Aston Villa and Tottenham, while we drew 4-4 with Arsenal despite battering them all game, and they scored with their only 4 shots all night. We were that close to the title.

 

Of course people will point back to the draws with Stoke, Everton and Wigan earlier in the season for the reason we missed out on the title – and they have a point – but the poor decisions made in those games are far outweighed by the good decisions made in others. It’s all about looking at the bigger picture rather than pin pointing specific games or incidents.

 

Just like people point to him taking off Torres at Birmingham, Gerrard at Wigan (I was guilty of that) among others, yet fail to acknowledge his superb record with substitutes that change games. For every poor substitution like those listed above, there were 5 good ones that changed games. The bigger picture.

 

People criticise his record in the transfer market, but then fail to acknowledge the signings like Torres, Reina, Agger, Mascherano, Alonso, Garcia.....

 

People criticise his policy of buying dozens of youth players, yet fail to acknowledge that no player had come through from the Academy since Steven Gerrard, and it obviously wasn’t working. We now have a handful of top class prospects on the verge of the first team that Rafael Benitez brought to the club. He was buying for the future, developing our youth system, bringing over top class coaches from Barcelona to develop our younger players and change the system that had failed the club for the past 10 years. People want to see a quick fix though. The bigger picture.

 

Last season was a disaster and everyone knows it was far from acceptable. But was it the right decision to sack the manager on the back of one bad year?

 

Was it right to dismantle the work he’d done with the youth set up? Was it right to ignore the mess that Gillett and Hicks had caused and the effect that had on Rafa and the players? Was it right to ignore all those other factors that combined to result in a 7th place finish and just blame it all on the manager? The bigger picture.

 

A decision was made to sack him and look where we are now.

 

History will be kind to Rafa’s reign at Anfield.

 

It might take a few years for people to sit back and reflect upon everything he achieved here, weighing it up against the factors involved, competition we were up against and how difficult a task he actually faced; and who knows what would have happened had Gillett and Hicks not walked through our doors in 2007? The blame for our demise lies firmly at their feet for me – not with the manager. Criticise him by all means, but blame him for everything? Not a chance.

 

Roy Hodgson is a joke of a manager, and without Hicks, Gillett and Purslow darkening Anfield, he wouldn’t have been within a mile of becoming our manager.

 

There is one manager in the world at the minute that is the perfect fit for the Anfield hotseat: the one that was kicked out of it 6 months ago.

 

Reflect on the past 6 years in full and decide if he’s too negative, wasted money on sh1te, too stubborn or whatever else you want to accuse him of. Maybe you had become bored and wanted a change. Maybe you had your expectations raised by the man you now criticise.

 

New owners, new strategy, new start, old manager.

 

Superb post.

 

If anyone wants to criticise it then do so by pointing out were you think it is wrong because posts like load of wank, gay and other things just shows you can't really argue with it.