The twats that are Nick Griffin and the BNP.

[cochcaer]

Completely agree with the rest of what you say there. I firmly believe that very few people, even the people who vote BNP, are racist in the 'purest' sense of the word, i.e where they actually believe other races are different from them or inherantly worse in some way.

But I do think policy failures of successive Governments have led to resentment, resentment which could and should have been avoided.

 

CH4 news polled all this tonight and about half showed up as racist, and the majority were disaffected Labour voters who felt the party had deserted them.

 

Who voted BNP and why? - Channel 4 News

[Strontium]

Agree with much of what you say but the housing bit is probably a myth - research has shown that new immigrants tend to move into the crap housing that no one else wants as well as overpriced private rented that more savvy locals avoid.

 

 

And here's the thread where I posted that little tidbit :thumbup:

 

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/gf-general-forum/55575-immigrants-taking-all-our-houses.html

 

 

CH4 news polled all this tonight and about half showed up as racist, and the majority were disaffected Labour voters who felt the party had deserted them.

 

 

Now I'm no fan of Labour, or indeed, the kind of paleo-socialist thinking that it has traditionally espoused, but I'm not wrong when I say that Labour has never been a racist party. So how have they been "deserted"? If they want old Labour-style socialism, then they could have voted for Socialist Labour (or the Green Party, if they wanted a bit of eco with their Maoism). So what is it that they think the BNP is giving them that Labour isn't but used to?

[Stu Monty]

The UKIP vote is more worrying for me. People are convinving themselves that it's something other than BNP-lite and other people seem happy to humour this delusion.

[Anny Road]

The BNP are fuckwits and greater publicity will expose their bile.

There is a place for them in british politics however not just for the comedy value but as an essential repository for the fascist vote.

Having the fascists within one of the mainstream parties is when it is time to worry.

Let them carry on. We know where they are.

[Anny Road]

The UKIP vote is more worrying for me. People are convinving themselves that it's something other than BNP-lite and other people seem happy to humour this delusion.

 

Voting for UKIP in the Euro elections is entirely different from doing so in the general election. They are pretty much the only way to vote Eurosceptic.

[Stu Monty]

Voting for UKIP in the Euro elections is entirely different from doing so in the general election. They are pretty much the only way to vote Eurosceptic.

 

Tories?

 

Either way, even if they were I still find a vote for them intellectually and morally reprehensible. It's Nick Griffin's sack of cunts with a bit more PR savvy; that's all.

 

UKIP founder, Alan Sked, who left the party in 1997, in part because he believed it was being taken over by "extremists", has recalled an argument with Farage over the inclusion of a statement on the party’s membership form opposing discrimination against minorities. "We will never win the nigger vote", Farage told him. "The nig-nogs will never vote for us."

 

Farage is the current party leader.

[Redexile]

And here's the thread where I posted that little tidbit :thumbup:

 

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/gf-general-forum/55575-immigrants-taking-all-our-houses.html

 

 

 

 

 

Now I'm no fan of Labour, or indeed, the kind of paleo-socialist thinking that it has traditionally espoused, but I'm not wrong when I say that Labour has never been a racist party. So how have they been "deserted"? If they want old Labour-style socialism, then they could have voted for Socialist Labour (or the Green Party, if they wanted a bit of eco with their Maoism). So what is it that they think the BNP is giving them that Labour isn't but used to?

 

I read the survey article and it appears one of the primary factors for them voting BNP is that they feel isolated and ignored by the current government. Given they appear to generally fall into the section described as working class then that would explain why they were LP voters originally. As an outsider it appears like the BNP identified an opportunity and the rest were too busy to address that area of politics.

[Anny Road]

. double post

[Anny Road]

Tories?

 

Either way, even if they were I still find a vote for them intellectually and morally reprehensible. It's Nick Griffin's sack of cunts with a bit more PR savvy; that's all.

 

UKIP founder, Alan Sked, who left the party in 1997, in part because he believed it was being taken over by "extremists", has recalled an argument with Farage over the inclusion of a statement on the party’s membership form opposing discrimination against minorities. "We will never win the nigger vote", Farage told him. "The nig-nogs will never vote for us."

 

Farage is the current party leader.

"never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father’s image, the black man, son of Africa, that I’d packed all the attributes I sought in myself, the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela."

 

"The emotion between the races could never be pure,” “Even love was tarnished by the desire to find in the other some element that was missing in ourselves. Whether we sought out our demons or salvation, the other race would always remain just that: menacing, alien, and apart."

 

"There was something about him that made me wary,” "A little too sure of himself, maybe. And white"

 

 

Barrack Obama current leader of the free world.

[Stu Monty]

"never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father’s image, the black man, son of Africa, that I’d packed all the attributes I sought in myself, the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela."

 

"The emotion between the races could never be pure,” “Even love was tarnished by the desire to find in the other some element that was missing in ourselves. Whether we sought out our demons or salvation, the other race would always remain just that: menacing, alien, and apart."

 

"There was something about him that made me wary,” "A little too sure of himself, maybe. And white"

 

Barrack Obama current leader of the free world.

 

 

I've heard plenty from Obama to know where the man stands on race. Trying to compare someone who speaks eloquently and with complexity about the subject to someone who knows they won't get the nigger vote is to miss the target spectacularly.

 

If the point was to show that Obama believes that there is something inherently racist in our make-up, which some of those comments would suggest (although it would be easier to get a better feel for his meaning if they were in a wider context of the speech they were given in) then I can't disagree. So are a lot of bad things. We have evolved to the point where we control them though.

[Anny Road]

I've heard plenty from Obama to know where the man stands on race. Trying to compare someone who speaks eloquently and with complexity about the subject to someone who knows they won't get the nigger vote is to miss the target spectacularly.

 

If the point was to show that Obama believes that there is something inherently racist in our make-up, which some of those comments would suggest (although it would be easier to get a better feel for his meaning if they were in a wider context of the speech they were given in) then I can't disagree. So are a lot of bad things. We have evolved to the point where we control them though.

I think you get what I mean't by those quotes Stu. Context is everything and whilst I agree it is hard to find a context where Farage language can be justified the fact that Obama language is far more eloquent does not makes the subject matter any less relevant.

 

Farage comes across as a fucking loon and would undoubtedly be bad news. However I can justify a UKIP vote as the massive fuck you it was to the other three parties and the faceless cretins who run Europe.

[Stu Monty]

I think you get what I mean't by those quotes Stu. Context is everything and whilst I agree it is hard to find a context where Farage language can be justified the fact that Obama language is far more eloquent does not makes the subject matter any less relevant.

 

Farage comes across as a fucking loon and would undoubtedly be bad news. However I can justify a UKIP vote as the massive fuck you it was to the other three parties and the faceless cretins who run Europe.

 

Nothing justifies voting for racism. Nothing.

 

You don't vote for the Nazi's because they were strong on national infrastructure. It's irrelevant. The racism defines the party and therefore the vote.

[Anny Road]

Nothing justifies voting for racism. Nothing.

 

You don't vote for the Nazi's because they were strong on national infrastructure. It's irrelevant. The racism defines the party and therefore the vote.

I disagree. Racism does not define UKIP. There my be some rampant xenophobia but just because the leader is quoted as saying Nig Nog in a private conversation does not mean the parties raison d'etre is the same as the BNP.

[Strontium]

Whether there are racists in UKIP or not is to miss the point. UKIP's policies themselves are not explicitly racist, so they can't be described as a racist party in the way that the BNP do have explicitly racist policies (Britain for whites only) and can be described as a racist party.

 

My biggest problem with UKIP is the fact that they are fucking liars. They come up with all this scaremongering crap, half of which is totally invented and half of which is a massive falsehood wrapped around a grain of truth.

 

The other day I heard Farage claim that 75% - 75%!! - of Britain's laws come direct from Europe, which would clearly justify their assertion that Britain is becoming subservient to the "European Super State", and that Westminster is little more than a talking shop when all the big decisions are taken in Brussels.

 

Except it's not true. I mean, of course it's not true. Surely only an idiot would believe that figure? It shouldn't even need to be said that it's untrue, because common sense ought to tell you that it's untrue.

 

In fact, the true figure is less than 20% and likely closer to 10%. The House of Commons library (which ought to be an expert on these things) gives a figure of 9.1%.

 

Where does this 75% figure come from? Well, it comes from UKIP deliberately misrepresenting a European politician for their own purposes. Hans-Gert Pottering, outgoing President of the European Parliament pointed out that 75% of all European Laws come through the European Parliament. Nothing whatsoever to do with our national laws at all! In fact, if anything in that is worrying, it would be that around 25% of EU law doesn't get scrutinised by the Parliament. [This is something that would be rectified by the Lisbon Treaty, but I digress...]

 

None of this stopped UKIP affixing their own subtitles to Pottering's speech (in German) which, needless to say, mistranslated the entire thing.

 

Oh, and the Tories are cut from the same cloth. Wanker-in-chief Daniel Hannan went even further than Farage and claimed that 84% of British law is made in Europe. Cameron is a little more reserved claiming "almost half". None of these people deserve your vote in Europe.

[wiiksie]

Whether there are racists in UKIP or not is to miss the point. UKIP's policies themselves are not explicitly racist, so they can't be described as a racist party in the way that the BNP do have explicitly racist policies (Britain for whites only) and can be described as a racist party.

 

My biggest problem with UKIP is the fact that they are fucking liars. They come up with all this scaremongering crap, half of which is totally invented and half of which is a massive falsehood wrapped around a grain of truth.

 

The other day I heard Farage claim that 75% - 75%!! - of Britain's laws come direct from Europe, which would clearly justify their assertion that Britain is becoming subservient to the "European Super State", and that Westminster is little more than a talking shop when all the big decisions are taken in Brussels.

 

Except it's not true. I mean, of course it's not true. Surely only an idiot would believe that figure? It shouldn't even need to be said that it's untrue, because common sense ought to tell you that it's untrue.

 

In fact, the true figure is less than 20% and likely closer to 10%. The House of Commons library (which ought to be an expert on these things) gives a figure of 9.1%.

 

Where does this 75% figure come from? Well, it comes from UKIP deliberately misrepresenting a European politician for their own purposes. Hans-Gert Pottering, outgoing President of the European Parliament pointed out that 75% of all European Laws come through the European Parliament. Nothing whatsoever to do with our national laws at all! In fact, if anything in that is worrying, it would be that around 25% of EU law doesn't get scrutinised by the Parliament. [This is something that would be rectified by the Lisbon Treaty, but I digress...]

 

None of this stopped UKIP affixing their own subtitles to Pottering's speech (in German) which, needless to say, mistranslated the entire thing.

 

Oh, and the Tories are cut from the same cloth. Wanker-in-chief Daniel Hannan went even further than Farage and claimed that 84% of British law is made in Europe. Cameron is a little more reserved claiming "almost half". None of these people deserve your vote in Europe.Whether there are racists in UKIP or not is to miss the point. UKIP's policies themselves are not explicitly racist, so they can't be described as a racist party in the way that the BNP do have explicitly racist policies (Britain for whites only) and can be described as a racist party.

 

My biggest problem with UKIP is the fact that they are fucking liars. They come up with all this scaremongering crap, half of which is totally invented and half of which is a massive falsehood wrapped around a grain of truth.

 

The other day I heard Farage claim that 75% - 75%!! - of Britain's laws come direct from Europe, which would clearly justify their assertion that Britain is becoming subservient to the "European Super State", and that Westminster is little more than a talking shop when all the big decisions are taken in Brussels.

 

Except it's not true. I mean, of course it's not true. Surely only an idiot would believe that figure? It shouldn't even need to be said that it's untrue, because common sense ought to tell you that it's untrue.

 

In fact, the true figure is less than 20% and likely closer to 10%. The House of Commons library (which ought to be an expert on these things) gives a figure of 9.1%.

 

Where does this 75% figure come from? Well, it comes from UKIP deliberately misrepresenting a European politician for their own purposes. Hans-Gert Pottering, outgoing President of the European Parliament pointed out that 75% of all European Laws come through the European Parliament. Nothing whatsoever to do with our national laws at all! In fact, if anything in that is worrying, it would be that around 25% of EU law doesn't get scrutinised by the Parliament. [This is something that would be rectified by the Lisbon Treaty, but I digress...]

 

None of this stopped UKIP affixing their own subtitles to Pottering's speech (in German) which, needless to say, mistranslated the entire thing.

 

Oh, and the Tories are cut from the same cloth. Wanker-in-chief Daniel Hannan went even further than Farage and claimed that 84% of British law is made in Europe. Cameron is a little more reserved claiming "almost half". None of these people deserve your vote in Europe.

Someone has had a copy and paste nightmare there.

 

Would it have been easier to just paste a link to the original material?

[Strontium]

Someone has had a copy and paste nightmare there.

 

Would it have been easier to just paste a link to the original material?

 

 

No link exists because it's my own original words, thanks. I never post anything from another source without attribution.

 

I make a point of copying and pasting every post I make because I've had too many masterpieces swallowed by the Internet in my lifetime, unfortunately I can sometimes be a little paste-happy.

[3 Colours Red]

I wonder which is the best way to treat the BNP. David Cameron said on tv a few days ago that his MEPs would be instructed not to talk to the BNP but to "cold shoulder"them at each opportunity. Does this reduce or enhance their appeal to some people.

 

Would they damage their own cause if freely interviewed? Nick Griffin was interviewed yesterday and asked what he would do if a Pakistani person sought his help. He said he would assist if the person was a British taxpayer. When questioned further, Griffin said he would expect the man to seek advice " from his own" in the first instance and looked uncomfortable.

 

It seems exposing their true beliefs may be better than the cold shoulder.

[wiiksie]

No link exists because it's my own original words, thanks. I never post anything from another source without attribution.

 

I make a point of copying and pasting every post I make because Im a three thumbed fuckwit who is always deleting stuff.

Fair enough.

[Antynwa]

Think it might have been Johnny that mentioned it on here or somewhere.

 

Proper democracy just doesn't work, Why can't Gordon Brown just jail this tit?

[Anny Road]

I wonder which is the best way to treat the BNP. David Cameron said on tv a few days ago that his MEPs would be instructed not to talk to the BNP but to "cold shoulder"them at each opportunity. Does this reduce or enhance their appeal to some people.

 

Would they damage their own cause if freely interviewed? Nick Griffin was interviewed yesterday and asked what he would do if a Pakistani person sought his help. He said he would assist if the person was a British taxpayer. When questioned further, Griffin said he would expect the man to seek advice " from his own" in the first instance and looked uncomfortable.

 

It seems exposing their true beliefs may be better than the cold shoulder.

Nicky Campbell on 5 live was on about this the other day. There was a debate organised on his show. The Anti Fascist League (or whoever) found out the BNP where on the show and pulled out. He tried to get them to see the stupidity in this course of action but they refused to share a plartform

[cochcaer]

Nothing justifies voting for racism. Nothing.

 

You don't vote for the Nazi's because they were strong on national infrastructure. It's irrelevant. The racism defines the party and therefore the vote.

 

And talking of infrastructure, where do we find houses and services for an increasing population? Build more motorways, build on more green belt and flood planes. England must already be amongst the most densely populated countries in Europe - and few want to go to Wales or Scotland. We already have voluntary repatriation under Labour with 3k up for grabs, so I'm not sure how that differs from ukip who I'm not even sure have a repatriation policy. It's not racism but managing an eco-system on an island.

[Redexile]

I don't think it should be characterised merely as apathy; a considerable amount of people aren't apathetic, they're just disgusted with the whole political system.

It's a shame, but the expenses scandal at Westminster has meant that political parties have been forced onto the defensive when really they should have been spending time articulating policy. The result is that UKIP and the BNP, two parties who have been untainted by the expenses scandal, have benefitted.

 

 

 

 

 

I think the BNP would actually find themselves very close politically to the Black African nationalist parties. Not only in racial terms, but also they tend to be economically hard left too, like the BNP.

 

Whether they were disgusted or not that lack of a vote allowed the extremists to get their men in and at the end of the day aint no point in complaining if you didn't exercise your democratic right.

As for the second bit regarding the similarities between the BNP and the Black African Nationalist parties that's quite a scary ( but true) reflection.

[Redexile]

And talking of infrastructure, where do we find houses and services for an increasing population? Build more motorways, build on more green belt and flood planes. England must already be amongst the most densely populated countries in Europe - and few want to go to Wales or Scotland. We already have voluntary repatriation under Labour with 3k up for grabs, so I'm not sure how that differs from ukip who I'm not even sure have a repatriation policy. It's not racism but managing an eco-system on an island.

 

During my brief flirtation with returning to the UK last year,one of the first things I noticed was how crowded the place had become. We went up to the lakes at the end of June and it was like the last Friday of the month at Tesco's.

[Soleilrouge]

horrible views being expressed here

[Redexile]

horrible views being expressed here

care to expand?