What do you think the main reason for our season so far has been?

[WaltonRed]

Didnt Brucey put a curse on Anfield saying the title would never return until he did in some capacity?

[Vincent Vega]

The run of away games we've had has been ridiculously tough, and is surely a one off in terms of the fact that we will never again face such a difficult run of away fixtures in succession. Injuries haven't helped us yet again with several disruptions, and I think some players currently struggling for form may still be feeling the effects of those injuries.

 

Excuses apart though, we've been terrible in far too many fixtures this season and the new players have looked a mile off what's required to close the gap. Players who were fantastic last year, have been poor this, and our manager is far to obsessed with "controlling" the game, and is too unwilling to be brave and have a go at teams (control should be reserved for difficult games and a certain amount of more attacking verve should be the way to against the rest of the shite).

 

It won't wash with most people, but the fact that this season has come off the back of a World Cup summer also hasn't helped. And I reckon we'd have a far better season next year even if we didn't sign another new player, mainly due to the fact that we'd have had a proper pre-season. I know it's clutching at straws (excellent Marillion album that was btw) a bit, and that it's the same for all teams, but I still reckon it's a factor and something we pay for as we are more reliant on a few top players than Chelsea and the Mancs, who both have more strength in depth.

[FortressAnfield]

Good enough to win the title.

 

Our results this season don't prove that the squad isn't good enough. There are other factors which can explain it. That's what this whole thread is about.

 

The thread is about why we aren't doing nearly as well as we expected this season. Some of us believe it is because of the quality of the players, and results show that they aren't good enough now to win the title, despite what you think.

 

If you leave out the option of the gypsy curse, then all other options, apart from the quality of the squad, imply there is a problem with the manager's performance.

 

You can argue that we made bad buys in the summer. I think Rafa probably bought the best he could. I just don't think we're good enough yet.

[Neil G]

The thread is about why we aren't doing nearly as well as we expected this season. Some of us believe it is because of the quality of the players, and results show that they aren't good enough now to win the title, despite what you think.

 

If you leave out the option of the gypsy curse, then all other options, apart from the quality of the squad, imply there is a problem with the manager's performance.

 

You can argue that we made bad buys in the summer. I think Rafa probably bought the best he could. I just don't think we're good enough yet.

 

I repeat, our results do not prove that this squad isn't strong enough to win the title. If they had all played to their potential and had been used correctly by Rafa, as was the case last season, and had still got the same run of results, then yes it would be pretty obvious that they weren't good enough. But neither of those are the case.

 

I think there is a problem with the manager's performance. Much as I love Rafa, I hold him primarily responsible for the poor start we've made. He had a system and a set of players that produced title-winning form for most of last season, but instead of sticking with that and strengthening where necessary, he made radical changes, moving some players in and out of the side repeatedly, and shifting others all around the pitch. That, coupled with what I see as unnecessary caution away from home, is the main reason we've struggled imo.

[Captain]

The thread is about why we aren't doing nearly as well as we expected this season. Some of us believe it is because of the quality of the players, [...]

In that case, what you're saying is that you thought the quality of our players to be higher than it actually is. Which is basically poor judgement on your part.

[Brownie]

I repeat, our results do not prove that this squad isn't strong enough to win the title. If they had all played to their potential and had been used correctly by Rafa, as was the case last season, and had still got the same run of results, then yes it would be pretty obvious that they weren't good enough. But neither of those are the case.

 

I think there is a problem with the manager's performance. Much as I love Rafa, I hold him primarily responsible for the poor start we've made. He had a system and a set of players that produced title-winning form for most of last season, but instead of sticking with that and strengthening where necessary, he made radical changes, moving some players in and out of the side repeatedly, and shifting others all around the pitch. That, coupled with what I see as unnecessary caution away from home, is the main reason we've struggled imo.

 

What did we need to change from last season to make us capable of winning the title, in your opinion Neil?

[Neil G]

What did we need to change from last season to make us capable of winning the title, in your opinion Neil?

 

Only a few signings to strengthen areas where we were lacking. Two strikers to replace Morientes and Cisse, one a clinical finisher and the other someone with pace but with more intelligence than Cisse. We got them in Kuyt and Bellamy respectively. Adequate cover for Gerrard on the right, which we got in Pennant, and another option for left midfield, which we got in Gonzalez.

 

That was it. There was no need to change the way we played, apart from being a bit more adventurous away against the better teams.

[Zippy]

Only a few signings to strengthen areas where we were lacking. Two strikers to replace Morientes and Cisse, one a clinical finisher and the other someone with pace but with more intelligence than Cisse. We got them in Kuyt and Bellamy respectively. Adequate cover for Gerrard on the right, which we got in Pennant, and another option for left midfield, which we got in Gonzalez.

 

That was it. There was no need to change the way we played, apart from being a bit more adventurous away against the better teams.

 

To a degree I agree with that except I believe that Gonzalez and Pennant have up till now lacked the level of quality we needed in those wide positions.

The wide left position is for me the area in which we are most lacking. I feel top quality on both flanks is essential as we have a very defensive midfield which is unlikely to score/create many goals.

[FortressAnfield]

In that case, what you're saying is that you thought the quality of our players to be higher than it actually is. Which is basically poor judgement on your part.

Exactly. Thankfully, my judgement isn't the issue of this thread.

[Guest king luis]

This season has obviously been very disappointing, even for a pessimist like myself. I couldnt help to think that we would at least still be in the race to the very end. I aknowledge now that we are out of it (pessimist remember), and I will now give my views on why I think we have failed so far this season.

 

Lack of Quality

Let's just get it straight that our players are of the same quality as Man U in goal, back 4 and central midfield, imo even better. What we're missing, as has been pointed out on here many times, is the cutting edge in the final third of the pitch. Im not talking about our strikers, I firmly believe that Bellamy and Kuyt are class, not the next Rooney but we cant compete with Man U financially so let's forget about bringing someone like him to the club, we dont need that. Enough said about strikers, we have class in Kuyt and Bellamy, and Crouch for all you Crouchmaniacs.

What we needed last season is someone who could take on a man out wide and put pressure on a defense all by himself like Ronaldo, Lennon, Henry, McManaman back in the day, and even Pennant at Birmingham and Gonzalez in Spain. I honestly didnt see it coming that these two would underperform like they are doing right now. I thought we finally had two wide players that could turn defenders inside out. We've seen it occasionally, even against Arsenal Pennant came past Clichy(Only once though). But that 1 time it led to a goal(disallowed). The lack of wide players in form is just like every other season one of my main reasons for our temporary slump in form. Maybe we should give them(Pennant & Gonzalez) more time, but I must say im starting to get worried

 

Playing away

When we're playing away in the premiership we get closed down and pressured on our own half(especially against the top teams) This doesnt leave any room for the defenders to pass the ball around and build an attack with 20 passes like we like to do, first between the great Finn and Carragher, Riise and Finnan and then through Alonso. Of course there IS room for it, but to be able to pass it around back there with Henry chasing you, you have to be confident and have the technical ability to pass it and recieve it. Let's face it, neither of our back four has the technical ability to play ball under pressure. Agger does though, and I hope he will make the place his soon. Just to make sure everybody gets my point: We get closed down on our own half and we cant handle it, we dont have the technical attributes to cope with it in the back four, and the consequence is LONG BALLS, and up there we usually have Crouch getting battled off the ball because he doesnt have the strenght to be a target man(height yes, but doesnt seem to help him much when he gets wrestled away).

 

Mentality

Gary Neville is far far from the best fullback in the premiership, but that doesnt prevent him from thinking he is Gods gift to football. He comes forward all the time, and it creates space and options for his team mates. It doesnt look like Finnan thinks he can help by going forward. That is one thing, the other is our captain fantastic and the rest of the crew not believing it is possible to control the game away from home. It's the same game, same sized pitch(not far from), same ball, same teams, so why cant we win away. Mentality, we just dont have the never say die attitude that Manure have instilled in their team. The team that created the greatest comeback of all time doesnt have the mentality. I just dont get it, all I know is that it needs to change, you play for Liverpool FC, you are better than all the rest- fucking get it to sink in and stay.

 

Bad luck and underperformers

Cheap excuse, but we have been unlucky with some decisions etc. The other thing is underperforming from Alonso and Gerrard, who imo are our most important and influential players, and decisive for us to click.

 

Good post there Lapskaus. I agree with you on every point. But you forgot about one problem. And I hate to say it, cause i fucking love rafa benitez. But I am not the biggest fan of his rotation policy. Since he arrived he's replaced our goalkeeper, the whole midfield(not gerrard) and all of our forwards. The only thing left is our back four. So I'm really glad agger finally can give hyppia the chance to step down and let the danish genious take his place.

 

But when rafa brings all of these new players to anfield, they will need time to settle in and understand eachother. And the rotation doesn't exactly speed things up. He needs to decide if zenden is playing left, or gonzo. He needs to decide on our midfield. Is gerrard a left or is he going to use pennant there, I thought the reason we got pennant, was to let gerrard play in the middle. And our forwards, kuyt or bellamy. Or both? (though I think crouch is a perfect match to both of them)... Another advantage with having 11 favourite players to every game, is to put pressure on them. Maybe the players would be afraid of loosing their place and start playing football with their hearts. Look at manU, their playing with allmost the same team as last year, and they have some crappy players.. But they work as a team, cause they play like that every game.

[Guest king luis]

...

[Silent Bob]

...

 

?

[Brownie]

Only a few signings to strengthen areas where we were lacking. Two strikers to replace Morientes and Cisse, one a clinical finisher and the other someone with pace but with more intelligence than Cisse. We got them in Kuyt and Bellamy respectively. Adequate cover for Gerrard on the right, which we got in Pennant, and another option for left midfield, which we got in Gonzalez.

 

That was it. There was no need to change the way we played, apart from being a bit more adventurous away against the better teams.

 

I don't think there has been any change in the way we play. I think we have improved in areas we needed to, but the other sides have improved in areas as well and as such we haven't done enough to usurp them.

 

We definitely have better strikers but they haven't got goals in the big games away from home.

 

I agree with Zippy though, up until now you can't say signing Pennant and Gonzalez is any improvement on Gerrard and Kewell.

[Neil G]

I don't think there has been any change in the way we play. I think we have improved in areas we needed to, but the other sides have improved in areas as well and as such we haven't done enough to usurp them.

 

We definitely have better strikers but they haven't got goals in the big games away from home.

 

I agree with Zippy though, up until now you can't say signing Pennant and Gonzalez is any improvement on Gerrard and Kewell.

 

I should have chosen my words better. When I said changing the way we play, I meant first and foremost the key players and the way they were used last season: Gerrard on the right, Alonso and Sissoko in the middle and Crouch linking the play.

 

I wasn't expecting that the two wingers would be improvements on the players mentioned, and I didn't think that they'd need to be. I only thought we needed Pennant as back-up to Gerrard, I didn't expect him to play anywhere near as much as he has. And I didn't expect Kewell to be out until March - I know he's injury prone, but that's got to be the longest spell he'll have had without kicking a ball since he signed. I was expecting him to be in and out of the side, which would give Gonzalez plenty of starts so he could get used to the Premiership, and maybe the competition would give Harry the kick up the arse that he needs. I still think Gonzalez will be the business, but he has to be picked more regularly if he's going to adapt.

[Guest king luis]

?

 

HEhe. If you look ar reason for editind, you may see that i double posted it. And i didn't know how to delete it. Cool?

[Brownie]

I should have chosen my words better. When I said changing the way we play, I meant first and foremost the key players and the way they were used last season: Gerrard on the right, Alonso and Sissoko in the middle and Crouch linking the play.

 

I wasn't expecting that the two wingers would be improvements on the players mentioned, and I didn't think that they'd need to be. I only thought we needed Pennant as back-up to Gerrard, I didn't expect him to play anywhere near as much as he has. And I didn't expect Kewell to be out until March - I know he's injury prone, but that's got to be the longest spell he'll have had without kicking a ball since he signed. I was expecting him to be in and out of the side, which would give Gonzalez plenty of starts so he could get used to the Premiership, and maybe the competition would give Harry the kick up the arse that he needs. I still think Gonzalez will be the business, but he has to be picked more regularly if he's going to adapt.

 

In the away games against Bolton and Everton we had the midfield axis of Gerrard, Momo and Alonso playing. Crouch started the Everton game and came on pretty early against Bolton yet we still lost those games.

 

So that would indicate we lost those games because Kewell didn't play which I just can't agree with.

[Neil G]

In the away games against Bolton and Everton we had the midfield axis of Gerrard, Momo and Alonso playing. Crouch started the Everton game and came on pretty early against Bolton yet we still lost those games.

 

So that would indicate we lost those games because Kewell didn't play which I just can't agree with.

 

No it wouldn't. We lost those games mainly because we set out to 'control' the game (I'm getting fed up of that phrase) instead of being more adventurous against inferior opposition. When they scored first we weren't capable of stepping up a gear.

 

Having said that, the constant chopping and changing of personnel at the start of the season didn't help either. If we'd had a more settled side we would have gelled a lot quicker instead of looking so disjointed. At times in the away games the team have looked like a group of strangers who've never played with each other before, which doesn't help when you're trying to come from behind.

[Brownie]

No it wouldn't. We lost those games mainly because we set out to 'control' the game (I'm getting fed up of that phrase) instead of being more adventurous against inferior opposition. When they scored first we weren't capable of stepping up a gear.

 

Having said that, the constant chopping and changing of personnel at the start of the season didn't help either. If we'd had a more settled side we would have gelled a lot quicker instead of looking so disjointed. At times in the away games the team have looked like a group of strangers who've never played with each other before, which doesn't help when you're trying to come from behind.

 

Well I suppose that's where it just comes to our fundamental difference in opinion - yours that our form is down to the manager messing around too much, and mine that we just aren't good enough.