Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[Jairzinho]

A regretful famine.

[Strontium]

This is hilarious. Creator Supreme will definitely approve.

 

[Rico1304]

7 minutes ago, Strontium Dog said:

This is hilarious. Creator Supreme will definitely approve.

 

Always on the right side of history. 

[Pureblood]

dats proof Corbin wants astroids to kill us dead

[moof]

Agree with every word of that motion 

[Boss]

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

Surely it’s an argument they don’t need to get involved in. Just say, he did a great job during the war (keeps the Daily Mail happy) but had some questionable views that were common at the time.   

McDonnell was asked to give a one-word answer " Hero or villain". It was a stupidly worded question, to which he tried to give a more nuanced answer.

 

This noise will pass and it won't change anybody's mind about Labour; but it might make people think more deeply about Churchill's legacy  and that's got to be a good thing.

[Rico1304]

20 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

McDonnell was asked to give a one-word answer " Hero or villain". It was a stupidly worded question, to which he tried to give a more nuanced answer.

 

This noise will pass and it won't change anybody's mind about Labour; but it might make people think more deeply about Churchill's legacy  and that's got to be a good thing.

Fair enough, hadn’t seen the interview.  As the admiral once said ‘it’s a trap!’

 

I doubt it will, his legacy is we don’t have to speak German.

[Barrington Womble]

44 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

McDonnell was asked to give a one-word answer " Hero or villain". It was a stupidly worded question, to which he tried to give a more nuanced answer.

 

This noise will pass and it won't change anybody's mind about Labour; but it might make people think more deeply about Churchill's legacy  and that's got to be a good thing.

I completely disagree that this doesn't impact people's thinking about labour. It won't change big numbers, but there will be many who might have thought labour where worth a go. Labour needs to be bringing people towards it, not driving them away. As for worrying about Churchill's legacy, we've got a future to worry about and this is such an unwinnable discussion, it's fucking mental to raise it. 

[moof]

2 minutes ago, Barry Wom said:

I completely disagree that this doesn't impact people's thinking about labour. It won't change big numbers, but there will be many who might have thought labour where worth a go. Labour needs to be bringing people towards it, not driving them away. As for worrying about Churchill's legacy, we've got a future to worry about and this is such an unwinnable discussion, it's fucking mental to raise it. 

He didn’t raise it. This kind of stuff sounds remarkably similar to, for example, the argument that labour needs to adopt a more racist immigration policy in order win more votes. 

 

Why the fuck shouldn’t people be able to recognise history without playing to base patriotic fervour? 

[Denny Crane]

Hmm if people think Tory voters will be turned off by a brief discussion about Churchill. It's just as well no Labour MPs have been pushing the STOP BREXIT you did BREXIT because you are racist and a bit dim and inferring you were duped by the Russians etc. 71% of Conservative voters voted for Brexit in 2016 and a sizeable share of the rest respect the referendum result and don't want it overturned. Or another way,  100% voted for a party that ran on No Deal is better than a bad deal in their manifesto in 2017.

 

I get the basic maths it's easier to convert a Conservative voter than get two new Labour ones. However Labour last won an election using that method in 2005 a lot has changed since then. If you were 40 in 1997 by the next time the General Election said person will be well into their 60s. So that floating voter of yesteryear is likely to want Brexit be wary of immigration and be uncomfortable with all sorts of social attitudes and positions Labour support. Another point as the Lib Dems found out if you go into alliance or in Labours case accept Thatchers economic principles they eventually go for the real copy not the imitation. 

 

[Pureblood]

3 hours ago, Strontium Dog said:

This is hilarious. Creator Supreme will definitely approve.

 

I would've thought a vegetarian would be bang up for that. 

[Rico1304]

Atlee was a pallbearer at his funeral and gave a pretty decent eulogy.  

[Strontium]

I think ending humanity would be a little bit of an over-reaction to animal cruelty.

[Pureblood]

29 minutes ago, Strontium Dog said:

I think ending humanity would be a little bit of an over-reaction to animal cruelty.

I don't think that part was written tongue in cheek at all.  

[Barrington Womble]

13 hours ago, moof said:

He didn’t raise it. This kind of stuff sounds remarkably similar to, for example, the argument that labour needs to adopt a more racist immigration policy in order win more votes. 

 

Why the fuck shouldn’t people be able to recognise history without playing to base patriotic fervour? 

He's in an interview he's choosing to do. Don't tell me he doesn't know what questions are coming and if he doesn't he fucking well should.  

[Barrington Womble]

13 hours ago, Denny Crane said:

Hmm if people think Tory voters will be turned off by a brief discussion about Churchill. It's just as well no Labour MPs have been pushing the STOP BREXIT you did BREXIT because you are racist and a bit dim and inferring you were duped by the Russians etc. 71% of Conservative voters voted for Brexit in 2016 and a sizeable share of the rest respect the referendum result and don't want it overturned. Or another way,  100% voted for a party that ran on No Deal is better than a bad deal in their manifesto in 2017.

 

I get the basic maths it's easier to convert a Conservative voter than get two new Labour ones. However Labour last won an election using that method in 2005 a lot has changed since then. If you were 40 in 1997 by the next time the General Election said person will be well into their 60s. So that floating voter of yesteryear is likely to want Brexit be wary of immigration and be uncomfortable with all sorts of social attitudes and positions Labour support. Another point as the Lib Dems found out if you go into alliance or in Labours case accept Thatchers economic principles they eventually go for the real copy not the imitation. 

 

Here's the thing with some people who vote conservative. They're not necessarily conservative supporters. They're just swing voters who back normally who they see as the best of a bad choice. Those numbers can be reasonably large and are the difference, especially in swing seats, between winning and losing elections. This isn't a question of winning over some right wing Tory supporters, it's just catching the drifters of which there's countless more than the real Tory supporters. The labour front bench is doing fuck all to win them over in my opinion and it's why they're behind in as many polls as they're in front despite being up against probably the weakest government of all time. Nobody trusts them and calling Churchill a villain is frankly pathetic for anyone who has aspirations to rid us of this Tory government. 

[Stickman]

If you asked a lot of people who lived around that time and grew up with him in those years like my Nan and Grandad did they would given you the same answer that "they fucking hated him" due to the fact he treated the working classes like something he'd stepped in and would've carried on doing that if he'd won the 45 election. Being a racist would've been way way down the list at that time.

But I guess when you're up against the most evil bastard the world has ever seen having a bastard in charge can only be a good thing can't it?

 

But as has been mentioned having his shitty past and views brought back up can only be a good thing or before you know it Liverpool will have a statue up of that great leader and saviour of Britain Margaret Thatcher too

 

 

[Denny Crane]

1 hour ago, Barry Wom said:

Here's the thing with some people who vote conservative. They're not necessarily conservative supporters. They're just swing voters who back normally who they see as the best of a bad choice. Those numbers can be reasonably large and are the difference, especially in swing seats, between winning and losing elections. This isn't a question of winning over some right wing Tory supporters, it's just catching the drifters of which there's countless more than the real Tory supporters. The labour front bench is doing fuck all to win them over in my opinion and it's why they're behind in as many polls as they're in front despite being up against probably the weakest government of all time. Nobody trusts them and calling Churchill a villain is frankly pathetic for anyone who has aspirations to rid us of this Tory government. 

 

The number of Conservative swing voters is a lot smaller than it was due to age, demographic changes, wealth distribution and Brexit since 1997. I would say the Conservative support is being held up by being the party of Brexit. The most realistic chances of getting these swing voters you suggest is converting Conservative voters who are more remain leaning and comfortable with paying more tax and improving public services and have few issues with immigration and a Britain culturally in 2019. I'd say that is a very small part of the Tory vote. 

 

If they voted Conservative and are remain leaning knowing the leader constantly spouted No Deal is better than a bad deal and actually put that in their manifesto I doubt a brief comment about Churchill is likely to be the decisive factor in their decision making.

 

But I think Labour have lost more votes by insulting the electorate over Brexit see my previous post times 100000 than any comment on Churchill but I don't see the outage regarding that so much. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Decent summary of why the "Labour is anti-Semitic" bollocks is bollocks. 

 

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/blog/antisemitism-no-justification-for-singling-out-labour/?fbclid=IwAR0nVOOpr0ecJBLC7YOb5s6DsTztBbdwnOovicGKAgV1CNPXqbqJ3_9C4TU

 

[Denny Crane]

Fair play Beckett incidentally she also said her dad hated Churchill apparently. 

 

 

 

 

[Barrington Womble]

2 hours ago, Denny Crane said:

 

The number of Conservative swing voters is a lot smaller than it was due to age, demographic changes, wealth distribution and Brexit since 1997. I would say the Conservative support is being held up by being the party of Brexit. The most realistic chances of getting these swing voters you suggest is converting Conservative voters who are more remain leaning and comfortable with paying more tax and improving public services and have few issues with immigration and a Britain culturally in 2019. I'd say that is a very small part of the Tory vote. 

 

If they voted Conservative and are remain leaning knowing the leader constantly spouted No Deal is better than a bad deal and actually put that in their manifesto I doubt a brief comment about Churchill is likely to be the decisive factor in their decision making.

 

But I think Labour have lost more votes by insulting the electorate over Brexit see my previous post times 100000 than any comment on Churchill but I don't see the outage regarding that so much. 

I don't agree with you. It's all a question of trust. And I think the swing voters believe they can't trust anyone and they'll go with whoever is likely to fuck them least. The labour party need to be making progress in that direction. In the last election they won some of their own traditional voters back by exactly that. Now they need to win the right leaning swing votes. This Churchill shit is just nonsense and no good can ever come of it. While I see other failings from labour since the last election, my point is this is just another one. Labour needs to be pulling people towards voting for them and not pushing them away. I feel certain this Churchill thing won't have won one vote and it's just a typical thing we see from the front bench to remind everyone how wacky they can be. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

I quite like Ken Clarke, to be honest. Obviously I disagree with him on a lot, but he doesn't seem all that hateful.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

It's a typical thing we see from the media, to portray the Labour front bench as wacky.

 

Answering a question honestly shouldn't be considered wacky.

[Jairzinho]

18 minutes ago, Hank Moody said:

I quite like Ken Clarke, to be honest. Obviously I disagree with him on a lot, but he doesn't seem all that hateful.

Likewise.

 

Seems to believe what he says as well. Which I think warrants a big a bit of respect at least.