Racism

[Mudface]

4 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Fucking hell. I vaguely knew about it but I’ve just read that article. Not even letting the fire brigade in. Absolute cunts 

And then you look at January's Capitol storming- which had been telegraphed for weeks- and the kid gloves response even as police were being killed and there was a reasonable chance elected members could be killed or taken hostage. 

[SasaS]

Waco, Ruby Ridge...

[Bjornebye]

3 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Waco, Ruby Ridge...

What’s your point? To be fair I’d say both are far more widely known about than that bombing in Philadelphia 

[SasaS]

4 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

What’s your point? To be fair I’d say both are far more widely known about than that bombing in Philadelphia 

There is a history of botched operations, they are not only botched when black radicals are concerned. You cannot compare Osage Avenue with Capitol, 35 years later, and establish a pattern, wilst willfully disregarding excessive use of force against right wing or religious radicals. That is my point.

[Mudface]

3 minutes ago, SasaS said:

There is a history of botched operations, they are not only botched when black radicals are concerned. You cannot compare Osage Avenue with Capitol, 35 years later, and establish a pattern, wilst willfully disregarding excessive use of force against right wing or religious radicals. That is my point.

Osage Avenue wasn't 'botched', they bombed the place and then deliberately let the neighbourhood burn down.

[Bjornebye]

39 minutes ago, SasaS said:

There is a history of botched operations, they are not only botched when black radicals are concerned. You cannot compare Osage Avenue with Capitol, 35 years later, and establish a pattern, wilst willfully disregarding excessive use of force against right wing or religious radicals. That is my point.

They dropped a bomb intentionally on a building full of people and let it and a neighbourhood burn down. They are still blaming each other on who shot first at Waco. ATF or the Cult. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

51 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

What’s your point? To be fair I’d say both are far more widely known about than that bombing in Philadelphia 

I think that might say something about bias in the media.  There are (quite rightly) plenty of books, articles, documentaries and dramatisations about Waco.  Even Ruby Ridge crops up more frequently (despite there being many fewer casualties).  But both of those incidents can be described as botched operations.  When your dropping bombs on a building you know to be occupied, you're going to get the result you're aiming for.  That's a whole different level of crime.

[TheHowieLama]

A better analogy might be the siege at the Black Panther headquarters.

[Davelfc]

2 hours ago, Mudface said:

And then you look at January's Capitol storming- which had been telegraphed for weeks- and the kid gloves response even as police were being killed and there was a reasonable chance elected members could be killed or taken hostage. 

One of the people that stormed the Capitol Building was shot and killed, I know of no officers killed by the protestors. 

[Mudface]

1 hour ago, Poster said:

One of the people that stormed the Capitol Building was shot and killed, I know of no officers killed by the protestors. 

Oh, it seems that Sicknick died of a stroke later on. Change that to 'the kid gloves response even as police were being attacked and there was a reasonable chance elected members could be killed or taken hostage.' then.

[Ranxerox]

1 hour ago, Poster said:

One of the people that stormed the Capitol Building was shot and killed, I know of no officers killed by the protestors. 

not for a lack of trying 

[Davelfc]

19 minutes ago, Mudface said:

Oh, it seems that Sicknick died of a stroke later on. Change that to 'the kid gloves response even as police were being attacked and there was a reasonable chance elected members could be killed or taken hostage.' then.

They shot and killed one of the people that stormed the building, is that kid gloves?

 

They failed to deploy appropriate numbers of police/National Guard in order to ensure that protestors couldn't get near the place. 

[Mudface]

Just now, Poster said:

They shot and killed one of the people that stormed the building, is that kid gloves?

 

They didn't deploy appropriate numbers of police/National Guard in order to ensure that protestors couldn't get near the place. 

I'm not sure what you're arguing here. The woman who was shot was part of a group who were very close to senators trying to get out- they were warned a number of times to back down and didn't. The fact they were even there in the first place, coupled with the lack of initial manpower and timid response when compared to the BLM march in 2020 was ridiculous. Even more so as there was ample warning that people were planning an attack.

[Davelfc]

5 minutes ago, Mudface said:

I'm not sure what you're arguing here. The woman who was shot was part of a group who were very close to senators trying to get out- they were warned a number of times to back down and didn't. The fact they were even there in the first place, coupled with the lack of initial manpower and timid response when compared to the BLM march in 2020 was ridiculous. Even more so as there was ample warning that people were planning an attack.

 

3 hours ago, Mudface said:

And then you look at January's Capitol storming- which had been telegraphed for weeks- and the kid gloves response even as police were being killed and there was a reasonable chance elected members could be killed or taken hostage. 

I mainly wanted to correct your 'even as police were being killed' statement. When that didn't happen. But I think we agree on most of the rest. 

[TheHowieLama]

1 hour ago, Poster said:

They shot and killed one of the people that stormed the building, is that kid gloves?

 

They failed to deploy appropriate numbers of police/National Guard in order to ensure that protestors couldn't get near the place. 

By that time it was a security crisis unlike anything ever seen at the Capitol. Nor will be seen again is my guess.

 

Here is from the House review (Lofgren is a Dem rep who chairs the committee assigned)

 

Lofgren, directly quoting an officer's statement made as part of an OPR review, said: "A radio broadcast was sent to all outside units, 'Attention, all units on the field, we're not looking for any pro-Trump in the crowd. We're only looking for any anybody anti-pro-Trump who wants to start a fight.'" 

The rioters, who sought to disrupt Congress' counting of Electoral College vote certificates that affirmed President Donald Trump's election loss, were almost entirely pro-Trump and/or affiliated with right-wing extremist groups. 

In the hearing, Bolton confirmed six Capitol Police officers were under investigation for their conduct during the January 6 siege. 

[Strontium]

8 hours ago, PrivateParts said:

Also grim that US Police committed a massacre like that and it's not widely known.

 

Reminds me of the Sidney Street siege in this country.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Sidney_Street

 

I reckon most people haven't heard of that either.

[SasaS]

11 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

By that time it was a security crisis unlike anything ever seen at the Capitol. Nor will be seen again is my guess.

 

Here is from the House review (Lofgren is a Dem rep who chairs the committee assigned)

 

Lofgren, directly quoting an officer's statement made as part of an OPR review, said: "A radio broadcast was sent to all outside units, 'Attention, all units on the field, we're not looking for any pro-Trump in the crowd. We're only looking for any anybody anti-pro-Trump who wants to start a fight.'" 

The rioters, who sought to disrupt Congress' counting of Electoral College vote certificates that affirmed President Donald Trump's election loss, were almost entirely pro-Trump and/or affiliated with right-wing extremist groups. 

In the hearing, Bolton confirmed six Capitol Police officers were under investigation for their conduct during the January 6 siege. 

 

But this means they didn't think Trump supporters represented a security risk for the Capitol, perceived security risk was the possibility of Trumpers fighting with counter protestors, which thankfully didn't show up.

[TheHowieLama]

16 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

But this means they didn't think Trump supporters represented a security risk for the Capitol, perceived security risk was the possibility of Trumpers fighting with counter protestors, which thankfully didn't show up.

No, that's not what it means.

[SasaS]

1 minute ago, TheHowieLama said:

No, that's not what it means.

OK. What does it mean then?

[TheHowieLama]

4 minutes ago, SasaS said:

OK. What does it mean then?

It means that is what they were told to do by the guy who was in charge.

Every intelligence agency in the US gubmnit had already identified far right extremists as the most dangerous domestic threat.

[VladimirIlyich]

10 hours ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

Reminds me of the Sidney Street siege in this country.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Sidney_Street

 

I reckon most people haven't heard of that either.

1911?

[Bjornebye]

27 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

But this means they didn't think Trump supporters represented a security risk for the Capitol, perceived security risk was the possibility of Trumpers fighting with counter protestors, which thankfully didn't show up.

This is a joke right? They were all over the internet and on message boards discussing how to build homemade bombs, use of weapons etc. They were threatening a complete overthrow. Jesus fucking wept. You right wingers are the everton fans of the political spectrum. The storming of the capitol was allowed to happen up to a certain point. There is a video of the police opening a fucking gate for them. The aim was to delay the senate vote past midnight so it wouldn't count because it had to happen on that day. They shit it in the end. 

[SasaS]

2 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

It means that is what they were told to do by the guy who was in charge.

Every intelligence agency in the US gubmnit had already identified far right extremists as the most dangerous domestic threat.

Because they (CPD) thought the security threat came from fighting between protestors, not from Trump supporters trying to storm the Capitol. Otherwise the conclusion is that the Capitol Police wanted the Trump supporters to raid and take over the building they were protecting.

[TheHowieLama]

They were not making those decisions.

[SasaS]

5 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

This is a joke right? They were all over the internet and on message boards discussing how to build homemade bombs, use of weapons etc. They were threatening a complete overthrow. Jesus fucking wept. You right wingers are the everton fans of the political spectrum. The storming of the capitol was allowed to happen up to a certain point. There is a video of the police opening a fucking gate for them. The aim was to delay the senate vote past midnight so it wouldn't count because it had to happen on that day. They shit it in the end. 

If this is the case, they should not investigate Capitol Police, they should investigate FBI and other federal agencies, who deliberately did nothing because they wanted the pro-Trump mob, consisting of far-right supporters (who they somehow already identified as a the greatest national security threat despite obviously being in cahoots with them) to take over the Capitol and stage a coup.