Arsenal (A) - Sun 4th Feb 2024 (4:30pm)

[Pidge]

Jota on the right, anyone in that midfield slot other than grav. Gakpo even.

[3 Stacks]

5 minutes ago, Pidge said:

Jota on the right, anyone in that midfield slot other than grav. Gakpo even.

No, none of the combinations work. Trent plays inside, any other midfielder you put on the right other than Szoboszlai will play inside and Jota will play inside. There is no wide presence whatsoever. 

 

Bradley was the one providing it and Szoboszlai can do it as well. Its why makeshift right winger Jota was working because he could essentially play centrally and close to goal. Maybe Gakpo in midfield would work. Maybe. 

[stringvest]

7 minutes ago, Pidge said:

Jota on the right, anyone in that midfield slot other than grav. Gakpo even.

 

imo Jota should be playing through the middle.  Nunez on the left, and Diaz on the right until Salah gets back.

[Pidge]

11 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

No, none of the combinations work. Trent plays inside, any other midfielder you put on the right other than Szoboszlai will play inside and Jota will play inside. There is no wide presence whatsoever. 

 

Bradley was the one providing it and Szoboszlai can do it as well. Its why makeshift right winger Jota was working because he could essentially play centrally and close to goal. Maybe Gakpo in midfield would work. Maybe. 

 

Trent would play into the space and Jota could get in a scuffle in an empty room, he'd occupy defenders and create space (as he did brilliantly v Chelsea). Jones or Gakpo (and Elliot, although I understand him being left out) would combine out wide if needed.

 

Better than the group that played anyway, nothing ideal.

[BeefStroganoff]

53 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

In all your footballing wisdom, Beef, what are you supposed to do tactically with a Trent-Gravenberch-Gakpo right side? And by the way, this was forced upon Klopp because two players who would have played in two of those positions were late absences. Nevermind that Salah was also missing. 

So he couldnt play Robertson and Gomez as fullbacks and trent in midfield?

[3 Stacks]

25 minutes ago, BeefStroganoff said:

So he couldnt play Robertson and Gomez as fullbacks and trent in midfield?

Robertson and Trent are being eased back and playing Gomez right back would have meant making two changes to the back 4 that had been working really well.

 

It's really not hard to figure out why the squad was depleted here, when you combine the half fit players coming back from injury, the absences like Salah and Endo, Nunez with his foot thing and Bradley and Szobo's late absences which basically ruined the game plan. Klopp had to basically make due with what he would have done with Bradley and Szobo, but with far worse players for those roles.

 

Trent playing wide right which he doesn't do anymore and Gravenberch in some nothing midfield position.

[Manny]

I'll echo the bad timing of this game, probably our 2nd toughest away of the season. I don't necessarily go in for first elevens thesedays as it's so much a squad game - even more so now we've got 5 subs. But, I don't think I'd be alone in suggesting that our default eleven would look something like this:

 

Alisson - fit and played

Trent - lacking match fitness after a month layoff, had to start anyway

VVD - fit and played

Robbo - lacking match fitness after a three month layoff, didn't start

Mac Allister - fit and played

Jones - fit and played

Szoboszlai - injured

Nunez - carrying a knock, didn't start

Jota - fit and played

Salah - injured

 

It's not exactly bare bones, but it's a few compromises in a game where you don't want to be making any, ideally. Arsenal I'd suggest are the following:

 

Raya - fit and played

Shite - fit and played (an argument they might pick Timber there but he's played like 20 minutes for them so hard to judge)

Saliba - fit and played

Gabriel - fit and played

Zinchenko - fit and played

Rice - fit and played

Odegaard - fit and played

Havertz - played out of position

Martinelli - fit and played

Jesus - injured

Saka - fit and played

 

They literally had to bring in Jorginho for Jesus and shunt Havertz up top (they might do that regularly anyway, I don't follow them that closely) but basically they didn't have to compromise anywhere; we had to shuffle our whole right side around, bringing an unfit player back: I don't think it's a coincidence that Martinelli and Jorginho, on Arsenal's left, were their most effective players. They also had an extra day to prepare (having played Tuesday midweek to our Wednesday), and had home advantage.

 

Losing Dom whilst Salah is out was a killer; we couldn't play Mac there either as Endo is not back yet, we couldn't try Trent there from the start (he's drifted there late in games after subs) as he's needed at right back because Bradley was unavailable and Gomez is needed at left back because of Robertson's fitness and Tsimikas' injury. It's fucking annoying as if this game was swapped with Burnley at home (as our next fixture is), we'd have had enough to get by; equally if this game had come next weekend, we'd probably have a few more players back and more options.

 

The wrong game at the wrong time, compounded by inexplicable errors from usually reliable players. We'll see what it means in the weeks to come but I have a lot of optimism this can be put in a box labelled with a lot of extenuating circumstances.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

32 minutes ago, Manny said:

I'll echo the bad timing of this game, probably our 2nd toughest away of the season. I don't necessarily go in for first elevens thesedays as it's so much a squad game - even more so now we've got 5 subs. But, I don't think I'd be alone in suggesting that our default eleven would look something like this:

 

Alisson - fit and played

Trent - lacking match fitness after a month layoff, had to start anyway

VVD - fit and played

Robbo - lacking match fitness after a three month layoff, didn't start

Mac Allister - fit and played

Jones - fit and played

Szoboszlai - injured

Nunez - carrying a knock, didn't start

Jota - fit and played

Salah - injured

 

It's not exactly bare bones, but it's a few compromises in a game where you don't want to be making any, ideally. Arsenal I'd suggest are the following:

 

Raya - fit and played

Shite - fit and played (an argument they might pick Timber there but he's played like 20 minutes for them so hard to judge)

Saliba - fit and played

Gabriel - fit and played

Zinchenko - fit and played

Rice - fit and played

Odegaard - fit and played

Havertz - played out of position

Martinelli - fit and played

Jesus - injured

Saka - fit and played

 

They literally had to bring in Jorginho for Jesus and shunt Havertz up top (they might do that regularly anyway, I don't follow them that closely) but basically they didn't have to compromise anywhere; we had to shuffle our whole right side around, bringing an unfit player back: I don't think it's a coincidence that Martinelli and Jorginho, on Arsenal's left, were their most effective players. They also had an extra day to prepare (having played Tuesday midweek to our Wednesday), and had home advantage.

 

Losing Dom whilst Salah is out was a killer; we couldn't play Mac there either as Endo is not back yet, we couldn't try Trent there from the start (he's drifted there late in games after subs) as he's needed at right back because Bradley was unavailable and Gomez is needed at left back because of Robertson's fitness and Tsimikas' injury. It's fucking annoying as if this game was swapped with Burnley at home (as our next fixture is), we'd have had enough to get by; equally if this game had come next weekend, we'd probably have a few more players back and more options.

 

The wrong game at the wrong time, compounded by inexplicable errors from usually reliable players. We'll see what it means in the weeks to come but I have a lot of optimism this can be put in a box labelled with a lot of extenuating circumstances.

You've only listed ten. Matip is also (arguably, at least) in our first-choice XI.

[Barrington Womble]

4 hours ago, DaveT said:

This is how I saw it. At the point of the Virgil/Ali fuck up I thought we were looking good for a point at the very least. Arsenal at that point were defending deep and playing on the break. I was amazed to see those xG and big chance stats, can’t remember Ali having that much to worry about.

 

xG can be weird though can't it, because the first goal is a high xG twice, both for the 1 on 1 and then for the open goal. The 2nd goal is also an open goal, so a pretty high xG. So they probably got most of the xG from the 1st and 2nd goals alone, where as our goal was probably worth 0 xG even though we probably get a pen if it doesn't go in off his hand. It's why it can be a useless stat at times i think. They still had more than twice the touches in our box we had in theirs, which I think is a reflection of just how poor we were developing play into the last 3rd. 

 

4 hours ago, El Rojo said:

Agree with most of that, but we’ll  generally be in a much better place in terms of player availability from now on. 

 

That is not a bandwagon I can jump on to be honest. I know there are some players coming back, but from Luton game on the 21st, we will be pretty much 2 games a week till the end of the season. Plus there's another international break in just over a month to come and fuck up half of our squad. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

5 hours ago, BeefStroganoff said:

A depleted squad, are you kidding me?

Yes. I'm kidding you. In fact, it's all a big prank.  Matip, Bradley, Endo, Szoboszlai, Bajcetic, Tsimikas and Salah were just pretending to be unavailable - and Robbo, Trent and Thiago were pretending to be less than fully fit - just to kid you.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

45 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

xG can be weird though can't it, because the first goal is a high xG twice, both for the 1 on 1 and then for the open goal. The 2nd goal is also an open goal, so a pretty high xG. So they probably got most of the xG from the 1st and 2nd goals alone, where as our goal was probably worth 0 xG even though we probably get a pen if it doesn't go in off his hand. It's why it can be a useless stat at times i think. They still had more than twice the touches in our box we had in theirs, which I think is a reflection of just how poor we were developing play into the last 3rd. 

 

 

That is not a bandwagon I can jump on to be honest. I know there are some players coming back, but from Luton game on the 21st, we will be pretty much 2 games a week till the end of the season. Plus there's another international break in just over a month to come and fuck up half of our squad. 

xG is basically bollocks.

[BeefStroganoff]

1 hour ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Yes. I'm kidding you. In fact, it's all a big prank.  Matip, Bradley, Endo, Szoboszlai, Bajcetic, Tsimikas and Salah were just pretending to be unavailable - and Robbo, Trent and Thiago were pretending to be less than fully fit - just to kid you.

Tsmikas, Bradley, Matip, Bajetic. Jeez .

[3 Stacks]

26 minutes ago, BeefStroganoff said:

Tsmikas, Bradley, Matip, Bajetic. Jeez .

Bradley would have been absolutely crucial in this game. You truly have no clue, do you.

[BeefStroganoff]

1 hour ago, 3 Stacks said:

Bradley would have been absolutely crucial in this game. You truly have no clue, do you.

 I know more about footy than you.

 

Bradleys only been in the first team for a few matches. There was plenty of ways Jurgen could have played it and he had plenty out there. It was a poor setup but mostly our attitude was garbage. Thats why we lost and its why we will drop points again.

 

I cant be having these missing players as an excuse. We beat that same side in the FA Cup with a bunch of kids four weeks back.

[3 Stacks]

18 minutes ago, BeefStroganoff said:

 I know more about footy than you.

 

Bradleys only been in the first team for a few matches. There was plenty of ways Jurgen could have played it and he had plenty out there. It was a poor setup but mostly our attitude was garbage. Thats why we lost and its why we will drop points again.

 

I cant be having these missing players as an excuse. We beat that same side in the FA Cup with a bunch of kids four weeks back.

We beat them after having been shite by outlasting them after they had missed their chances. That sort of thing rarely happens twice.

 

Also, you know more about football but your big answer to my question about tactics was "derp, what about Gomez at right back, derp".

[BeefStroganoff]

4 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

We beat them after having been shite by outlasting them after they had missed their chances. That sort of thing rarely happens twice.

 

Also, you know more about football but your big answer to my question about tactics was "derp, what about Gomez at right back, derp".

Listen, Ive played at a decent level. i had to learn where to play, where to move and various tactical setups.

 

You telling me Gomez couldnt do right back and Robertson left? At least for 60 or so minutes?

 

As per usual with us we just over complicate it. I mean Gomez dropping into the midfield, you fucking kidding?

 

Arsenal are ok - just ok though. They have a mentality thats super fragile and in fact they looked shattered at half time.

 

The players out there - with a bit of grit, focus and fire in their belly could have taken them easily. We are too fucking casual and it pisses me off.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

44 minutes ago, BeefStroganoff said:

 I know more about footy than you.

 

I was expecting the next sentence to be "Gary Neville agrees with me".

[VladimirIlyich]

12 hours ago, BeefStroganoff said:

Listen, Ive played at a decent level. i had to learn where to play, where to move and various tactical setups.

 

You telling me Gomez couldnt do right back and Robertson left? At least for 60 or so minutes?

 

As per usual with us we just over complicate it. I mean Gomez dropping into the midfield, you fucking kidding?

 

Arsenal are ok - just ok though. They have a mentality thats super fragile and in fact they looked shattered at half time.

 

The players out there - with a bit of grit, focus and fire in their belly could have taken them easily. We are too fucking casual and it pisses me off.

Got to say that Beefy isn't far off here.

[TheHowieLama]

14 hours ago, BeefStroganoff said:

The players out there - with a bit of grit, focus and fire in their belly could have taken them easily. We are too fucking casual and it pisses me off.

 

That comes from the top don't you think?

[3 Stacks]

14 hours ago, BeefStroganoff said:

Listen, Ive played at a decent level. i had to learn where to play, where to move and various tactical setups.

 

You telling me Gomez couldnt do right back and Robertson left? At least for 60 or so minutes?

 

As per usual with us we just over complicate it. I mean Gomez dropping into the midfield, you fucking kidding?

 

Arsenal are ok - just ok though. They have a mentality thats super fragile and in fact they looked shattered at half time.

 

The players out there - with a bit of grit, focus and fire in their belly could have taken them easily. We are too fucking casual and it pisses me off.

To be fair to you, it does sound like you played at a decent level. The platitudes and cliches here sound exactly like what your run of the mill pundit who played in the Premier League would say.  

[BeefStroganoff]

9 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

To be fair to you, it does sound like you played at a decent level. The platitudes and cliches here sound exactly like what your run of the mill pundit who played in the Premier League would say.  

Jumpers for goalposts etc

[BeefStroganoff]

24 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

That comes from the top don't you think?

I dont know. 

 

Jurgen used to rage and rally the team, especially in the two seasons we got record point hauls. He used to claim that teams are trying to 'steal our points'.

 

Maybe he is jaded. This team still has the experience of winning major honours which just beggars belief when we turn up to games and play within ourselves. These opportunities are fleeting yet it feels like we are doing our upmost in January to throw it away.

 

• Casual performance in a big game
• The boss and staff declaring they are leaving
• Lack of a proactive strategy in the transfer market when we are well within FFP and lots of teams are skint/cant spend

Yes im majorly hacked off at the moment, not helped by the crowing media.

[TheHowieLama]

Looks like you do know.

All 3 of those issues stem from one fella.

[3 Stacks]

Look, if Liverpool on that football pitch had fought for the shirt and the badge, if they had been at the races, if they had given it 110%, if they hadnt tried walking the ball into the net, if they had taken it one game at a time, if they had shown some steel and some nous, if the players could have dug deep, if the players had put a shift in, if the players hadnt done schoolboy errors, if the players had stamped their authority on the game, if the players hadnt been at sixes and sevens, if the players could have taken the game by the scruff of the neck, 

 

they would have gotten a result here, they just would have, Clive.