Thiago Alcantara

[Barrington Womble]

1 hour ago, Barnesey said:

Employees should receive sick pay. And it’s covered by insurance, isn’t it?

 

Let's be honest, it's not sick pay. He probably comes to work most days. He just isn't capable of doing the main part of his job on the pitch. And if we were calling it sick pay, most employees wouldn't get it for 12 months, which is how long he's been missing except for a few minutes. 

 

I doubt there's insurance, I'm sure the club years ago moved away from that model and all they insure against is career enders. So unless he gets hurt on international duty, it's on the club. 

 

There's no right or wrong to this. @Redder Lurtz has a point. It's fucking obscene. But honestly, aren't the wages paid to all the players obscene, regardless if they get on the pitch or not? Paying footballers who don't get on the pitch is part of the deal. And the only way to protect against that would be to make them like normal employees, but that would blow the entire transfer market apart. 

[Redder Lurtz]

6 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

Let's be honest, it's not sick pay. He probably comes to work most days. He just isn't capable of doing the main part of his job on the pitch. And if we were calling it sick pay, most employees wouldn't get it for 12 months, which is how long he's been missing except for a few minutes. 

 

I doubt there's insurance, I'm sure the club years ago moved away from that model and all they insure against is career enders. So unless he gets hurt on international duty, it's on the club. 

 

There's no right or wrong to this. @Redder Lurtz has a point. It's fucking obscene. But honestly, aren't the wages paid to all the players obscene, regardless if they get on the pitch or not? Paying footballers who don't get on the pitch is part of the deal. And the only way to protect against that would be to make them like normal employees, but that would blow the entire transfer market apart. 

 

Football is obscene. Like @VladimirIlyichsays this reflects more on football than on Thiago as a person but as a fan we get to choose to deal with the obscenity when we see players turning up, playing, giving 100% in return. It becomes all the more stark when we see absolutely nothing in return for the obscene salary though.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

2 hours ago, Captain Willard said:

Sorry I’m posting too early in the morning. Obviously £360k but my wider point still stands, the club makes a reasonable number of people very rich whilst giving a relatively tiny amount to charity.

And more significant than that I’d assume the club indirectly genterates revenue and jobs for a lot of small and large businesses in the city, hotels, bars, shows, restaurants, taxis/transport etc. Didnt check any numbers, but would believe football tourism is a pretty big thing in Liverpool.

[Barrington Womble]

17 minutes ago, Redder Lurtz said:

 

Football is obscene. Like @VladimirIlyichsays this reflects more on football than on Thiago as a person but as a fan we get to choose to deal with the obscenity when we see players turning up, playing, giving 100% in return. It becomes all the more stark when we see absolutely nothing in return for the obscene salary though.

 

It does. But as I said in the last post, I'm not certain there's a right answer to this. The real core of the problem is the obscene amounts of money. Sportsman not being fit to be sportsman is a fact in every sport. Paying players regardless of contribution is a fault of football for wanting to pretty much "own" a player for the contract length, in order to lock in a transfer fee. 

 

Another thing to remember, your reference originally is to compare to 26000 people using foodbanks. That's not thiago's fault. It's not Liverpool's faul. It's not football's fault. It's the fault of these Tory cunts and the cunts that voted them in. Our country is in a mess because these cunts siphon off billions to their mates every month. Because they used the pandemic as an opportunity to make money. Because they think the public purse is their own slush fund. It's disgusting 26000 people are using foodbanks. Thiago has nothing to do with it though. 

[Carra_is_legend]

21 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

It does. But as I said in the last post, I'm not certain there's a right answer to this. The real core of the problem is the obscene amounts of money. Sportsman not being fit to be sportsman is a fact in every sport. Paying players regardless of contribution is a fault of football for wanting to pretty much "own" a player for the contract length, in order to lock in a transfer fee. 

 

Another thing to remember, your reference originally is to compare to 26000 people using foodbanks. That's not thiago's fault. It's not Liverpool's faul. It's not football's fault. It's the fault of these Tory cunts and the cunts that voted them in. Our country is in a mess because these cunts siphon off billions to their mates every month. Because they used the pandemic as an opportunity to make money. Because they think the public purse is their own slush fund. It's disgusting 26000 people are using foodbanks. Thiago has nothing to do with it though. 

 

Agree 100%. Whilst it is crazy that players get paid so much for kicking the ball around, its pretty much supply & demand. Pay more, get the right players by beating competition and earn more by being in CL. Its just a cycle whether we like it or not. Injuries are part of the process.

 

As you say it is the fucking fault of this cunting government that so many people are in a terrible state that they have to use food banks. One just has to look at how many people made fucking millions when that cunt Liz Truss announced the emergency budget - just by trading & hedging on the UK Pound, whilst the nation lost in excess of £50bn.

 

EDIT: If 26k are using foodbanks, imagine how many people, with children, end up penniless after spending on food and as a result, not being able to even heat their homes . 

[Captain Willard]

5 minutes ago, Carra_is_legend said:

 

Agree 100%. Whilst it is crazy that players get paid so much for kicking the ball around, its pretty much supply & demand. Pay more, get the right players by beating competition and earn more by being in CL. Its just a cycle whether we like it or not. Injuries are part of the process.

 

As you say it is the fucking fault of this cunting government that so many people are in a terrible state that they have to use food banks. One just has to look at how many people made fucking millions when that cunt Liz Truss announced the emergency budget - just by trading & hedging on the UK Pound, whilst the nation lost in excess of £50bn.  

This is a common myth. Currency speculation is a zero sum game so if somebody makes a profit another trader is making a loss. There is no absolute gain. 

[El Rojo]

I think we can all agree that the money involved in the top level game is obscene.

 

In terms of Thiago, it’s mad that he wasn’t just paid off in the summer or given a room in the Saudi Retirement  Home for Liverpool Midfielders.

 

I mean, what were the medical and management teams honestly expecting with him this season? The script has written itself more or less since he joined us.

 

To counter this, he’s about the only questionable playing asset we have, with the exception of Adrian. The clubs generally runs a tight ship these days. 

[Carra_is_legend]

1 minute ago, Captain Willard said:

This is a common myth. Currency speculation is a zero sum game so if somebody makes a profit another trader is making a loss. There is no absolute gain. 

 

Of course traders make loss, its the nature of the game. But those 'in the know' about an upcoming emergency budget making millions is a totally different story.

[Carra_is_legend]

4 minutes ago, El Rojo said:

In terms of Thiago, it’s mad that he wasn’t just paid off in the summer or given a room in the Saudi Retirement  Home for Liverpool Midfielders.

 

When we were put in a position of revamping the whole midfield in a single summer, I can understand why he was retained. 

[Section_31]

To be honest I'm not bothered by the wages aspect. He's not a bad guy who's brought the club into disrepute and slagged anyone off, I just fail to understand how an athlete can be so frail.

 

With sicknote players there must be a psychological aspect to it. I know Klopp used to insinuate that with Sturredge.

 

That's the part I can't be doing with. Man up or fuck off.

[joe_fishfish]

4 minutes ago, El Rojo said:

I think we can all agree that the money involved in the top level game is obscene.

 

In terms of Thiago, it’s mad that he wasn’t just paid off in the summer or given a room in the Saudi Retirement  Home for Liverpool Midfielders.

 

I mean, what were the medical and management teams honestly expecting with him this season? The script has written itself more or less since he joined us.

 

To counter this, he’s about the only questionable playing asset we have, with the exception of Adrian. The clubs generally runs a tight ship these days. 

I think he turned down a move to Saudi and was expecting to play a role on the pitch this season, that's what I remember reading at the time anyway.

 

Don't think this has turned out how anyone would have liked.

[Pidge]

9 minutes ago, El Rojo said:

I mean, what were the medical and management teams honestly expecting with him this season? The script has written itself more or less since he joined us.

 

Well, he played in 28 games last season (four times the minutes of naby keita) and 30+ in the two before that. This season he's only been available once. This is the outlier, not the norm. And we're not the kind of club to just dump players when the going gets tough.

 

Not even getting started on john saying Daniel Sturridge is one of the biggest financial wastes the club has ever had...neither were chronically unavailable, but their injuries (as with lallana for a time) made them relatively unreliable in terms of consistent selection and they've lost their places as a result.

[El Rojo]

1 minute ago, Pidge said:

 

Well, he played in 28 games last season (four times the minutes of naby keita) and 30+ in the two before that. This season he's only been available once. This is the outlier, not the norm. And we're not the kind of club to just dump players when the going gets tough.

 

Not even getting started on john saying Daniel Sturridge is one of the biggest financial wastes the club has ever had...

Didn’t realise he’d played that many.

 

And I think I actually praised him on here in the summer for not going to Saudi so I’m viewing all this with my 20/20 goggles and a pinch of hypocrisy. 

[an tha]

11 minutes ago, Pidge said:

 

Well, he played in 28 games last season (four times the minutes of naby keita) and 30+ in the two before that. This season he's only been available once. This is the outlier, not the norm.

This is a real piece of spin. His appearance stats in his time with us are abysmal.

 

He has barely played 40% of the minutes we have played in his time with us.

 

Last season he started 14 of our 38 league games and played 1,256 of the 3,420 mins, 36.7%.

 

Season before he started 17 of our 38 league games and played 1,537 of the 3,420 mins, 44.9%

 

Season before he started 20 of our 38 league games - his only season where he scrapes past the 50% mark for starts....1,857 of the 3,420 mins, 54.3%

 

Assuming he does not start another league game for us he will have started 51 of 152 league games for us in his 4 seasons here....33.5%

 

He will have played 4,655 of 13,680 mins....34%

 

I've focused solely on league here - the picture is pretty much the same if include all comps.

 

It is an abysmal record.

 

 

 

 

[Megadrive Man]

32 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

To be honest I'm not bothered by the wages aspect. He's not a bad guy who's brought the club into disrepute and slagged anyone off, I just fail to understand how an athlete can be so frail.

 

With sicknote players there must be a psychological aspect to it. I know Klopp used to insinuate that with Sturredge.

 

That's the part I can't be doing with. Man up or fuck off.

 

I remember Rodgers referenced it with Sturridge. 

 

You get some players that won't play if they feel pain, and then you get some like Gerrard that take pain killing injections to make sure they can play.

 

With Thiago I just think that his body is completely fucked and he can't play top level football anymore.

[Megadrive Man]

3 hours ago, Redder Lurtz said:

This weekend he hits the £6million mark that this club has paid him since the start of the season. He's played 5 minutes of football, although he has been known to pull sympathetic faces at those less fortunate than himself. 

 

26,000 people in Liverpool regularly use food banks. 

 

Hope everyone's OK with that. 

 

It's a bit of an odd comparison to make?

 

There's no connection between Thiago earning millions and people using food banks.

 

When Thiago leaves in the summer it's not like the club are going to announce that from now on they are going to donate £10 million a year to local food banks instead. 

 

There are many people to be angry towards regarding the rise of the need for food banks but footballers aren't one of them. 

[Code]

Thiago was in the PFA team of the year in 21/22, pretty good for a waste of space who is always injured according to some. 

[Dave D]

Those 3 goals though. Admittedly, one took a deflection     

[3 Stacks]

His wages are a direct result of what he had achieved in the game before joining us. If you dont like players being paid that much, dont ever clamor for established, top class signings. Cant do both. 

[Redder Lurtz]

Obvs not the bloke's fault that the money is obscene and I agree with everyone who's pointed out that the cunt tory government has forced people into using food banks. 

 

It just makes me sick to my stomach that we've forked out six million quid for nothing when people in the same city are starving. Life's a cunt. 

[Redder Lurtz]

43 minutes ago, Megadrive Man said:

 

It's a bit of an odd comparison to make?

 

There's no connection between Thiago earning millions and people using food banks.

 

When Thiago leaves in the summer it's not like the club are going to announce that from now on they are going to donate £10 million a year to local food banks instead. 

 

There are many people to be angry towards regarding the rise of the need for food banks but footballers aren't one of them. 

 

I wasn't making a comparison, I was giving it context but thanks for your sage advice. 

[Dave D]

16 minutes ago, Redder Lurtz said:

Obvs not the bloke's fault that the money is obscene and I agree with everyone who's pointed out that the cunt tory government has forced people into using food banks. 

 

It just makes me sick to my stomach that we've forked out six million quid for nothing when people in the same city are starving. Life's a cunt. 

 

Factor in the other £35million he's trousered up to now and does leave you feeling a little short changed I suppose.

 

He's just a shit Charlie Adam

 

 

 

  

[Pidge]

1 hour ago, an tha said:

This is a real piece of spin. His appearance stats in his time with us are abysmal.

 

He has barely played 40% of the minutes we have played in his time with us.

 

Last season he started 14 of our 38 league games and played 1,256 of the 3,420 mins, 36.7%.

 

Season before he started 17 of our 38 league games and played 1,537 of the 3,420 mins, 44.9%

 

Season before he started 20 of our 38 league games - his only season where he scrapes past the 50% mark for starts....1,857 of the 3,420 mins, 54.3%

 

Assuming he does not start another league game for us he will have started 51 of 152 league games for us in his 4 seasons here....33.5%

 

He will have played 4,655 of 13,680 mins....34%

 

I've focused solely on league here - the picture is pretty much the same if include all comps.

 

It is an abysmal record.

 

It's not spinning anything, it's factual information in the context of talking to people who understand how many games we play.

 

Presenting a proportional analysis with no comparator data to provide perspective would be spin... After all there are numerous reasons why a player might not play. Not just injury, there are also players in form in the way.

 

El Rojo's comment that I was disagreeing with was suggesting that Thiago only being available for five minutes of this season was predictable for the medical team. I said it's not, he's actually been available for much more than that over most of his time here (while also highlighting that his time has suffered because he has struggled to be consistently available). You haven't posted a single thing that contradicts that. And you can't. Because it's not "spin".

 

Struggles with fitness or not, regardless of whether or not he was a wise signing, the idea that he's a wage thief happy to sit on the sidelines just doesn't ring true at all, for me. He's always been fighting to get back in, unlike others we've had in the past.

[TheHowieLama]

Yea, a reasonable expectation of Thiago would be - available for half the games - his whole career shows that.

[Dave D]

20 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Yea, a reasonable expectation of Thiago would be - available for half the games - his whole career shows that.

Your right, it does very clearly. Must have had a good agent when he was negotiating his wages with us