Ketosis

[Adebisi]

Is there any point in a high protein diet if you don't actually work out? I'm trying to gain healthy weight as I'm too skinny but honestly other than walking everywhere, shagging and the occasional lifting of weights, I really don't have it in me, or the time, to exercise regularly enough.
Other the course of the summer me and my mate have tried a high protein diet and I gained some weight but found my hunger was ridiculous even though I was eating every 3 or so hours. Maybe because I cut down the carbs because I was always getting bloated?

My other mate reckons I'd be better off eating whatever I want (within reason) but just exercising more. He reckons because I'm so tall and skinny I'll never really pack on bad weight as long as I ditched beers and ciders, didn't go overboard on takeaways/fast food, ate my fruit and veg and exercised a few times a week?
 

[Anny Road]

Pointless.

[Adebisi]

So I've been eating cottage cheese for 3 weeks for nowt? Jesus wept.

[Anny Road]

Wont do you much harm but protein is expensive and if you are looking to put weight on without exercise all you need to do is increase your calorie intake.

I'd go for porridge, brown rice, wholemeal pasta etc etc good wholesome carbs. You will gain weight and who knows were you will store it.

You could end up looking like a T Rex with a massive belly and skinny arms.

If you want it quick eat high calorie foods all the time. Not recommended though

Excess calories are generally turned to fat unless your body needs the protein and amino acids to repair the muscles damaged through exercise.

Seriously you can do a heavy full body workout in 30 mins 3 times per week and it would be good for growth.

[Rick Sanchez C-137]

Am I safe enough just treating a carb-up as a particularly carby cheat day? Lyle McDonald is waffling on about all the different types of carbs and which hours to eat them in and I couldn't be fucked with that frankly. Maybe later down the line.

[Anny Road]

I would not pay too much attention to Macdonald. Yes he is good but you have to have a life. It is all the subject of much debate anyway. it not like we are competing. I'm happy to be reasonably athletic and strong.

Even if you were built like a god because of his methods noone sees it anyway. The only time my shirt comes of is to go swimming with the kids and the pool is full of other kids and undesirable mothers shouting at them.

[Adebisi]

Wont do you much harm but protein is expensive and if you are looking to put weight on without exercise all you need to do is increase your calorie intake.

I'd go for porridge, brown rice, wholemeal pasta etc etc good wholesome carbs. You will gain weight and who knows were you will store it.

You could end up looking like a T Rex with a massive belly and skinny arms.

If you want it quick eat high calorie foods all the time. Not recommended though

Excess calories are generally turned to fat unless your body needs the protein and amino acids to repair the muscles damaged through exercise.

Seriously you can do a heavy full body workout in 30 mins 3 times per week and it would be good for growth.

Full body workout sounds like a good bet actually. Does it matter what time of day? I was thinking shortly before bed but maybe first thing would make more sense.  I was looking like a T-Rex last summer but I was also drinking 4-5 days a week on top of a shit diet so I don't think that'll happen this time.

 

 

[Anny Road]

Doesn't matter a toss when you do it. Just get it done. I prefer first thing but everyone is different.

Stay off machines and pick up heavy things. Squats, deadlifts, presses, dips, pull ups, bench. Two of them 3 times a week 5 sets 5 heavy reps and eat like a madman. That will work. Keep your protein up but don't stress it just do it with a steady increase in weight. Then after a month or two look for a more detailed workout.

[Red Phoenix]

Am getting closer to being able to do this now, but am basically doing a low-carb diet for the time being, until some of the high-carb food I already have is gone. Main fats are going to be cheese, avocado, eggs, butter, olive oil, walnuts and coconut oil. With the last there I just found some that's organic and cold pressed, it tastes nice too, and might try some in a coffee later.

 

It's odd though, seeing how one snack that would've been normal before just wipes out most of a days carbs in one go. A tin of beans, a banana, some oats, lentils, it's just strange. I think I feel calmer already though after cutting down the carbs a bit.

 

The state of ketosis isn't strange at all according to this, it's just not so well known as something that's maintained in a diet. If it sorts out some of my anxiety alone though I'll be more than happy with it.

 

From the article just linked :

 

 

Basically, most of us have entered into this world in ketosis. Ketones are a basic element of survival, whether you are a baby or an adult. Many of us rely on them at night while we sleep, in the morning before work, and as a baby, during one of the most important periods for growth and development.

 

Not only are ketones not unsafe; they are actually necessary for survival and development. They fuel the brain with energy and provide it with necessary building blocks. They can also help fight neurodegenerative and other diseases.

 

Does this mean we should aim to be in ketosis 100% of the time?

 

Probably not. More likely, full-time ketosis is not for everyone. The science at this point remains unsolved.

 

However, some — and especially those with certain medical conditions — may actually benefit from full-time low-carbohydrate ketosis. Regarding ketones as poison is the furthest thing from the truth.

 

This conviction likely stems from the ingrained belief that diets should consist of heavy amounts of carbs and that anything otherwise is unhealthy. This, of course, could not be further from the truth, as evidenced by the havoc high-carb diets have caused.

 

The data on the effects of ketosis in cancer treatment and prevention remains unknown in humans. Animal studies and preclinical data have shown potential, which is encouraging as cancer continues to affect each and every one of us, whether through family, friends, or personally.

 

However, before we set foot into this unchartered territory, the false views on the dangers of ketosis from minimizing dietary carbohydrates need to stop.

 

 

[Anny Road]

Common sense tells you that as a hunter gatherer we have to have sufficient ability to be able to hunt or forage after extended periods of fasting.

If our ancestors went a few days without a kill according to some we would lack the energy to lift our heads never mind chase down prey over dozens of kilometers. look at the some of the African tribes hunting techniques. They literally run deer into the ground. Without snacking on sugar or carbs. Fat is natures ultimate energy store.

[Rick Sanchez C-137]

Scrambled eggs with a heap of butter, green beans and cheese us just lovely.

[Cardie]

If you aren't hunting down your packet of chicken breasts to near exhaustion and dying before you're 40 (if you're lucky enough to make it past 15) then you're making a mockery of this diet and aren't doing things properly.

 

 

[Anny Road]

If you aren't hunting down your packet of chicken breasts to near exhaustion and dying before you're 40 (if you're lucky enough to make it past 15) then you're making a mockery of this diet and aren't doing things properly.

What are you on about?

[Red Phoenix]

What are you on about?

 

He's been on the mushrooms again.

[Red Phoenix]

Ended up trying it again, and haven't been too far off in the last 24 hours I don't think, apart from swigs of lucozade when I've been freaking out a bit at the thought of low energy. If I can cut that down a bit and get used to it more should be almost there. Have felt a lot more balanced at times as well, which is probably due to the lack of sugar crash/insulin spikes from high carbs.

 

I don't think I'll ever go full keto for long periods of time, but might alternate between a low carb diet and keto quite often from here on out. Just don't feel comfortable at all eating the amount of carbs that I have done so much in the past now.

[Cardie]

Would those in the know recommend taking the lead from Hiwi, kung or hadza? (I'm guessing Inuit is out for all but the hardiest/aficionados of whale blubber)

 

[Rick Sanchez C-137]

Would those in the know recommend taking the lead from Hiwi, kung or hadza? (I'm guessing Inuit is out for all but the hardiest/aficionados of whale blubber)

 

Maybe you should take the lead from modern science mate.

[Anny Road]

Would those in the know recommend taking the lead from Hiwi, kung or hadza? (I'm guessing Inuit is out for all but the hardiest/aficionados of whale blubber)

The authors have no allegiance to or interest in the Primal Blueprint diet, but we can glean a few things that relate directly to our interests. First, it demolishes the common refrain that hunter-gatherers all die young. Average life expectancy is marred by infant mortality rates, and it’s clear that hunter-gatherers – the closest analogues to our Paleolithic ancestors – can and do enjoy “modern” lifespans with an average modal age of 72 years.

Second, Gurven and Kaplan show that “degenerative deaths are relatively few, confined largely to problems early in infancy.” Heart attacks and stroke “appear rare,” and the bulk of deaths occur when the person is sleeping and are free of obvious symptoms or pathology. Most “degenerative” deaths are attributed to “old age.” “Illness” is the main cause of death among all age groups and all populations, except for the pre-contact Ache (supreme hunters), and the authors break illness into different categories. The big killers were infectious respiratory diseases, things like pneumonia, bronchitis, and tuberculosis. Gastrointestinal illnesses also did a number on them, accounting for 5-18% of deaths, with diarrhea (probably stemming from parasites and coupled with malnutrition) taking the lion’s share. Violence was also a significant killer.

Third, and this is crucial, it destroys the other common argument that an evolutionary diet high in animal products might still be harmful because we didn’t evolve to live past forty, which is when diet-related diseases begin to show. Gurven and Kaplan make an extremely salient point: since the bulk of human evolutionary history took place over the course of 2 million years prior to the advent of agriculture, and that pre-agricultural period conferred most of the “major distinctive features of our species, such as large brains, long lives, marriage and male investment in offspring,” it’s likely that the “age-specific mortality pattern” of human beings also evolved “during our hunter-gatherer past.” That is, they propose that the human potential for longevity is not a product of modern living; instead, it appears to be a genetic characteristic shared by all Homo sapiens. Advances in medical technology bolster and support that inherent longevity (as shown by moderate lifespan increases in acculturated hunter-gatherers and modern industrial populations), but they aren’t responsible for it.

This data shows that human longevity is not a product of modern living. It shows that we have inherent proclivities toward long life, as long as we satisfy certain criteria – namely, the steady acquisition of food and shelter and the avoidance of infection, trauma, illness, and violent injury. The evolutionary lifestyle that eschews modern industrial processed food and promotes healthy levels of activity is the same one that supported our evolution into long-living Homo sapiens. Modern technology, sanitation, and medical advances are merely the cherries on top of an already solid framework.

Read more: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/life-expectancy-hunter-gatherer/#ixzz3joERdmlb

[Rick Sanchez C-137]

The authors have no allegiance to or interest in the Primal Blueprint diet, but we can glean a few things that relate directly to our interests. First, it demolishes the common refrain that hunter-gatherers all die young. Average life expectancy is marred by infant mortality rates, and it’s clear that hunter-gatherers – the closest analogues to our Paleolithic ancestors – can and do enjoy “modern” lifespans with an average modal age of 72 years.

Second, Gurven and Kaplan show that “degenerative deaths are relatively few, confined largely to problems early in infancy.” Heart attacks and stroke “appear rare,” and the bulk of deaths occur when the person is sleeping and are free of obvious symptoms or pathology. Most “degenerative” deaths are attributed to “old age.” “Illness” is the main cause of death among all age groups and all populations, except for the pre-contact Ache (supreme hunters), and the authors break illness into different categories. The big killers were infectious respiratory diseases, things like pneumonia, bronchitis, and tuberculosis. Gastrointestinal illnesses also did a number on them, accounting for 5-18% of deaths, with diarrhea (probably stemming from parasites and coupled with malnutrition) taking the lion’s share. Violence was also a significant killer.

Third, and this is crucial, it destroys the other common argument that an evolutionary diet high in animal products might still be harmful because we didn’t evolve to live past forty, which is when diet-related diseases begin to show. Gurven and Kaplan make an extremely salient point: since the bulk of human evolutionary history took place over the course of 2 million years prior to the advent of agriculture, and that pre-agricultural period conferred most of the “major distinctive features of our species, such as large brains, long lives, marriage and male investment in offspring,” it’s likely that the “age-specific mortality pattern” of human beings also evolved “during our hunter-gatherer past.” That is, they propose that the human potential for longevity is not a product of modern living; instead, it appears to be a genetic characteristic shared by all Homo sapiens. Advances in medical technology bolster and support that inherent longevity (as shown by moderate lifespan increases in acculturated hunter-gatherers and modern industrial populations), but they aren’t responsible for it.

This data shows that human longevity is not a product of modern living. It shows that we have inherent proclivities toward long life, as long as we satisfy certain criteria – namely, the steady acquisition of food and shelter and the avoidance of infection, trauma, illness, and violent injury. The evolutionary lifestyle that eschews modern industrial processed food and promotes healthy levels of activity is the same one that supported our evolution into long-living Homo sapiens. Modern technology, sanitation, and medical advances are merely the cherries on top of an already solid framework.

Read more: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/life-expectancy-hunter-gatherer/#ixzz3joERdmlb

 

How very dare you contradict Cardies 'knowledge'.

 

Also, good to see you're still alive mate. I've been in keto for over a week now, so every new day is a blessing, obviously.

[Anny Road]

Two days in and my piss stinks. First time I did this it took well over a week. Now two days around 50 -70 grams of carbs and bang off we go. Once you have done this a couple of times your body is well set up for it.

 

Just have to make sure my arteries dont seal up on the way to the gym and I'll be fine.

[Rick Sanchez C-137]

I usually eat asparagus every day so im still not sure if my piss stinks more than normal. But I haven't went over 30g carbs in a week.

 

Question: Do you ever eat quest bars?

[Anny Road]

I usually eat asparagus every day so im still not sure if my piss stinks more than normal. But I haven't went over 30g carbs in a week.

 

Question: Do you ever eat quest bars?

Training as well mate you should be well on the way. Previously if I was not sure I would run or hit the stationary bike for an hour or so.

I weighed in this morning at 15st 5lb see where I am in a week.

[Rick Sanchez C-137]

I got the first shade on the ketostix and my hunger has dropped a fair bit so I'm pretty sure I'm in ketosis. I managed to pull 165kg at 74kg bodyweight yesterday too with no carbs for a week, and I hadn't deadlifted for 6 weeks, so if I can keep that up as the weight drops i'll be set to push for my goal of 200kg at 75kg body weight after a lean bulk.

[Lario]

Quick one for folk.

 

Had a carb nite last night, and haven't eaten since then. I'm heading to the gym at lunchtime to do 45 minutes on the Wattbike, and I'm wondering if going there fasted would be the best option?

I'm always wary about getting straight into high fat the day after a carb nite, as I reckon the carbs and fat so close to each other will only result in storage that I don't want. So maybe doing cardio while fasted would be the quickest/best way to deplete the glycogen that got stored last night, and get be back into keto quicker?

 

Also started eating Avocados. A bit meh if I'm honest, but lovely when they're sprinkled with salt!

[Anny Road]

200kg deadlift at your weight is good going mate. I had the same goal but you will probably get the same frustration I did at being only 60lb from 500lb. Took me months to get that extra 60.