Swansea (Home)

[Squabblefest]

Plenty of excuses, some valid and some maybe not but at the end of the day we failed to beat Swansea and Norwich at home!

 

You talk about players being young and needing time etc

 

So far with the money he has spent results have been extremely poor. We should beat Swansea at home under any cicumstances. Any players our scouts, coaches and manager thinks good enough to be Liverpool players should be good enough to get 3 points at home to Swansea.

 

No Excuses. Fact.

 

Absolutely fair points that you've raised and you are right that we should be beating these teams at home.

 

What I would say is that we certainly could have beaten them, we dominated Norwich for long periods and I feel that if that early Carroll shot would've gone in against Swansea then it might have changed the complexion of the whole game, (although of course you can argue that the reverse is also true, but I'm sure you see the point I'm trying to make!).

 

What I'm trying to say is that we've had to replace three members of our midfield four. This is a fucking huge task for these players to take on. A fucking massive ask for all of them. And surely it's a mitigating factor that one of them, and quite patently the one who's struggling the most, is only 21 years old, whilst the rest of them are having passages of play where there's utter confusion and a series of mistimed and misplaced passes.

 

What I'm arguing here is that not only is this sort of thing likely to happen but that's it to be expected. It's fucking bound to happen as they learn the incredibly harsh lessons that they need to learn to be able to play alongside each other in the white heat of the Premiership.

 

I also feel that Carroll is the type of player who relies almost exclusively on the service he gets from the midfield , (and overlapping full backs obviously), so if the midfield are struggling for periods then it therefore makes sense that he will too.

 

We simply haven't had the luxury of bedding in Adam or Henderson alongside Gerrard or Miereles, (and just imagine how different this season would've been if Gerrard would've been driving our midfield forward), and Kenny has obviously felt that it'd be better to blood Henderson than play Maxi, (who's always struggled to impose himself in the tougher fixtures), although after Saturdays performance I'd be surprised to see Henderson's name on the team sheet for a while as it was far worse than Flanagan's performance against Sunderland and he was dropped almost immediately.

 

I agree that it's disappointing that we're dropping points, but at the same time I'd argue that our results haven't been 'extremely poor', as you've said.

 

Everton's or West Brom's results have been piss-poor. Our's have been well above average, (in fact almost on a par with Chelsea with their 'shit-hot' new manager and not having had to reconfigure three quarters of the most important engine room of their entire team like we have).

 

The point I'm trying to make is that for the first half of the season, (especially with Gerrard out and Miereles gone after handing in a transfer request), we were always likely to struggle for periods as our midfield learn about each other and how to play alongside each other in the white heat of battle.

 

The other point I'm trying to make is that things are likely to improve as the season goes on.

 

My guess is that Downing will gradually improve and become the fucking superb player he was after he settled down at Aston Villa and indeed at Middlesborough, Adam will benefit from having Gerrard alongside him to carry the burden of spraying passes around the field and closing down the opposition. I also feel that once the service improves to Carroll from our midfield, so will his goal return. But all this will only come about as long as we retain patience with the players who are struggling at the moment.

 

Basically what I'm saying is, (and I'm not directing this at you Buffalo), is that there's no real need to fucking lose our minds just yet.

[Captain]

What I'm trying to say is that we've had to replace three members of our midfield four. This is a fucking huge task for these players to take on. A fucking massive ask for all of them. And surely it's a mitigating factor that one of them, and quite patently the one who's struggling the most, is only 21 years old, whilst the rest of them are having passages of play where there's utter confusion and a series of mistimed and misplaced passes.

 

I actually think our problems have been more defensively when you think about Adam. Swansea's midfield passed both him and Lucas with ease. Neither of those two have anything even remotely resembling acceleration. And that is a huge fucking problem in a midfield duo. If Kenny plays them together against Man City, well . . . .

 

The way Swansea were putting us under pressure at the back when we tried to play from the back was very telling. We were nowhere near the same level of putting them under pressure when they had the ball in their back four. At Anfield. It's just not on.

 

These are tactical issues. It's team selection and it's how those selected are set out to play.

[ngogswilly]

I actually think our problems have been more defensively when you think about Adam. Swansea's midfield passed both him and Lucas with ease. Neither of those two have anything even remotely resembling acceleration. And that is a huge fucking problem in a midfield. If Kenny plays them together against Man City, well . . . .

 

The way Swansea were putting us under pressure at the back when we tried to play from the back was very telling. We were nowhere near the same level of putting them under pressure when they had the ball in their back four. At Anfield. It's just not on.

 

These are tactical issues. It's team selection and it's how those selected are set out to play.

 

Thats been my point of view and IMO its been evident for a few weeks now in terms of the midfield 2. Dave U has highlighted it pretty well in his match report, in that, Swansea had 3 in the middle against our two, but also theres been games where we've been 2 on 2 and still have been overrun in the middle.

 

At the end of the day, our problems without doubt are up front and goals just not coming. But we have to fix the middle too. Because we'll concede alot of goals otherwise. And we can't be relying on scoring more than the opposition right now.

[N'Gog I Trust]

I wish we would press as a team, high up the pitch, like we used to do under Rafa.

 

Watch this video and look at how organised we are, the other team has no good options to play the ball.

 

0y0OVXEcM7Q

 

Now think back to Swansea, how they cut right through us and constantly had options. We just stood off and let them play how they wanted.

 

It makes me sick thinking about how good we were back then, and how far we have fallen.

[kalasoma]

RESULTADO - BALON RECUPERADO!

That's my favourite bit of the video.

[Il Fenomeno]

Thats been my point of view and IMO its been evident for a few weeks now in terms of the midfield 2. Dave U has highlighted it pretty well in his match report, in that, Swansea had 3 in the middle against our two, but also theres been games where we've been 2 on 2 and still have been overrun in the middle.

 

At the end of the day, our problems without doubt are up front and goals just not coming. But we have to fix the middle too. Because we'll concede alot of goals otherwise. And we can't be relying on scoring more than the opposition right now.

 

Was that always not going to be the case though? Suarez showed last season he wasn't really consistent infront of goal, Carroll is at best a 1 in 2 striker, nothing better. And Henderson and Downing have rarely scored goals in their career. Add that to the fact Adam only had 2 goals from open play last season, then its quite obvious to anyone that we are going to struggle for goals with those in the line up.

 

We've got players who are capable of scoring 10-15 goals a season on the bench in Bellamy, Maxi and Kuyt yet we're ignoring them in favour of players who haven't scored goals consistently in their careers and don't even look like scoring goals here just because we paid massive money for them. That's what so frustrating about this situation, Kenny hasn't even tried changing the formation or players, he's stuck with the 4-4-2 and Henderson and Downing as wide men in every game, even after we've struggled to score against the likes of Norwich, Sunderland and Swansea at home.

[Captain]

We had a midfield trio of Alonso, Mascherano and Gerrard.

 

Compare that to what we have today and there really isn't much more to add.

[Pidge]

We had a midfield trio of Alonso, Mascherano and Gerrard.

 

Compare that to what we have today and there really isn't much more to add.

 

Apart from "Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh..."

[JohanH]

Watched he game on TV only- any matchgoers who can help me on a tactics qn?

 

We seemed to be doing ok in first half with the left side (Enrique/Henderson) getting a lot of joy- then Downing and Henderson switched flanks and it ground to a halt. For second half we brought on Kuyt- but we never found any joy on either side. Did Swansea make any changes to counter our main area of threat?

 

My immediate reaction was that Dalglish got something tactically very wrong for the second half to be so bad- at half time expected us to tweak and come out all guns blazing.

[Biscao]

We had a midfield trio of Alonso, Mascherano and Gerrard.

 

Compare that to what we have today and there really isn't much more to add.

 

I agree, we shouldn't have told Alonso to fuck off and then proceeded to replace him with Lucas. A shame, really.

[Whelan]

I agree, we shouldn't have told Alonso to fuck off and then proceeded to replace him with Lucas. A shame, really.

 

We didn't! But never mind.

 

I do think the team needs a bit of tinkering (it doesn't need overhauling I don't think), I am really not sold on Adam in midfield unless it is as cover for Gerrard or away from home.

 

Teams will sit against us at Anfield and his tendency to patrol the centre circle spraying passes to the wings is not working, at home the centre mid needs to be driving forward and supporting the attack and he doesn't do that, Gerrard does and I think Henderson will. If you want him to sit then don't pick Lucas, if you don't think Adam can offer enough defensively (which I don't) then he shouldn't play.

 

He didn't turn us into poor performers on Saturday, Johnson was terrible, Enrique and Downing terrible, Suarez and Caroll terrible. But I think he unbalances the side. Dirk and Maxi should be on the right until January and we should go for Hoilet (He can always become cover for both wings if we bring in someone better in the summer).

 

On a plus side, we are creating a lot of chances, certainly more than we have done in the past few years.

[stringvest]

We didn't! But never mind.

 

I do think the team needs a bit of tinkering (it doesn't need overhauling I don't think), I am really not sold on Adam in midfield unless it is as cover for Gerrard or away from home.

 

Teams will sit against us at Anfield and his tendency to patrol the centre circle spraying passes to the wings is not working, at home the centre mid needs to be driving forward and supporting the attack and he doesn't do that, Gerrard does and I think Henderson will. If you want him to sit then don't pick Lucas, if you don't think Adam can offer enough defensively (which I don't) then he shouldn't play.

 

He didn't turn us into poor performers on Saturday, Johnson was terrible, Enrique and Downing terrible, Suarez and Caroll terrible. But I think he unbalances the side. Dirk and Maxi should be on the right until January and we should go for Hoilet (He can always become cover for both wings if we bring in someone better in the summer).

 

On a plus side, we are creating a lot of chances, certainly more than we have done in the past few years.

 

Adam offers far more than Lucas. He is more mobile and contributes far more going forward for a start. I'm not sure how long it will take for realisation to dawn that Lucas offers far too little. He is easily bypassed in midfield, something that a top quality defensive midfielder wouldn't be, and his reading of the game, after all these years, is still poor. It's almost like we're in denial. He's consistent, but the level is just too low.

[Whelan]

Adam offers far more than Lucas. He is more mobile and contributes far more going forward for a start. I'm not sure how long it will take for realisation to dawn that Lucas offers far too little. He is easily bypassed in midfield, something that a top quality defensive midfielder wouldn't be, and his reading of the game, after all these years, is still poor. It's almost like we're in denial. He's consistent, but the level is just too low.

 

I am not getting into this, some people and you seem to be of that ilk, are not going to give Lucas anything! So be it, but Adam is not and never has been a defensive midfielder!

 

If you are serioulsly suggesting that Adam is better as a DM than Lucas then there is no need to continue talking. If you suggest that Adam is better attacking then Lucas then you are right.

 

But as usual the argument about Lucas is disingenuous as it is a question of Lucas or Spearing, and Adam or Gerrard, Henderson as they play different positions. However people are so desperate to be proved right, they refuse to accept the fact that Lucas was our player of the year last season, and second to Suarez this season and lay everything at his door.

 

Rafa had a blind spot with Lucas, Hodgson was a fool and would obviously play Lucas, but Kenny seems to be playing him week in week out! So that is 3 managers who have continuously rated him, surely some fans are not so insecure to admit that maybe they may have him wrong.

[Jairzinho]

Adam offers far more than Lucas. He is more mobile and contributes far more going forward for a start. I'm not sure how long it will take for realisation to dawn that Lucas offers far too little. He is easily bypassed in midfield, something that a top quality defensive midfielder wouldn't be, and his reading of the game, after all these years, is still poor. It's almost like we're in denial. He's consistent, but the level is just too low.

 

Comedy gold.

[silverlining]

Adam offers far more than Lucas. He is more mobile and contributes far more going forward for a start. I'm not sure how long it will take for realisation to dawn that Lucas offers far too little. He is easily bypassed in midfield, something that a top quality defensive midfielder wouldn't be, and his reading of the game, after all these years, is still poor. It's almost like we're in denial. He's consistent, but the level is just too low.

 

Adam isn't "far more mobile" than anyone. Ever. In the history of football.

[stringvest]

Adam isn't "far more mobile" than anyone. Ever. In the history of football.

 

Hyperbollocks. He moves around the pitch more, ergo he is more mobile.

[zigackly]

I suspect they mean quick.

[stringvest]

I am not getting into this, some people and you seem to be of that ilk, are not going to give Lucas anything! So be it, but Adam is not and never has been a defensive midfielder!

 

If you are serioulsly suggesting that Adam is better as a DM than Lucas then there is no need to continue talking. If you suggest that Adam is better attacking then Lucas then you are right.

 

But as usual the argument about Lucas is disingenuous as it is a question of Lucas or Spearing, and Adam or Gerrard, Henderson as they play different positions. However people are so desperate to be proved right, they refuse to accept the fact that Lucas was our player of the year last season, and second to Suarez this season and lay everything at his door.

 

Rafa had a blind spot with Lucas, Hodgson was a fool and would obviously play Lucas, but Kenny seems to be playing him week in week out! So that is 3 managers who have continuously rated him, surely some fans are not so insecure to admit that maybe they may have him wrong.

 

I'm not a 'hater', I like Lucas - he seems to have a great attitude, and seems to be a lovely guy. I am prepared to acknowledge Lucas' contribution to the team, but I am not going to fall into the trap, as so many do on here, of massively overstating it either. He operates within a very narrow range, and is more or less competent within that range. We need players who either have more than one string to their bow, or who are single string virtuosos.

[Whelan]

I'm not a 'hater', I am prepared to acknowledge Lucas' contribution to the team, but I am not going to fall into the trap, as so many do on here, of massively overstating it either. He operates within a very narrow range, and is more or less competent within that range. We need players who either have more than one string to their bow, or who are single string virtuosos.

 

I believe we have bought a few of them in the past!

 

He is limited, in much the same way that Mascherano is limited, Carragher is limited and Kuyt is limited, but they do a very good job. Lucas has been excellent in sitting and breaking up play, look at the best results of this team for the past few years and he was playing almost every occasion.

 

Not saying he can't be improved upon because he can (Martinez would be fantastic), but Carragher could have been improved upon, Crouch, Masch, Alonso also. The lad is playing under this 3rd Liverpool manager, and his 2nd National manager and yet people still say he is should be dumped. Adam has contributed nothing so far to suggest that he is a better option than Lucas, nothing! He is a scottish Danny Murphy.

[Guest TK-421]

dalglish must be as thick as pigshit for continuing to select Lucas an Kuyt. He's had ample opportunity to dump both of them for good.

[zigackly]

I notice he's "dropped" Kuyt from being an automatic starter ...

[silverlining]

I notice he's "dropped" Kuyt from being an automatic starter ...

 

Yes, a great move to drop Kuyt and play Henderson out on the right, where he has put in some of the most inept displays in recent memory.

[zigackly]

Yes, a great move to drop Kuyt and play Henderson out on the right, where he has put in some of the most inept displays in recent memory.

 

Never know until you try. Kuyt of course is hardly the best right winger we've ever seen either ... I much prefer him to be used further forward when he plays.

[Il Fenomeno]

The only reason Kuyt isn't a starter is because he didn't cost a big fee like Carroll and Henderson. Nothing to do with Kuyt's footballing ability really.

[Kevin D]

The only reason Kuyt isn't a starter is because he didn't cost a big fee like Carroll and Henderson. Nothing to do with Kuyt's footballing ability really.

 

Kenny hates cheap players.