Steven Gerrard - Aston Villa Manager

[Arniepie]

56 minutes ago, Josef Svejk said:

One trophy in three years in Scotland. After Brendan left.

 

What does he have to do at Villa to justify replacing Klopp in '24? 

How many did they win in the few years before he came?

[dockers_strike]

57 minutes ago, Josef Svejk said:

One trophy in three years in Scotland. After Brendan left.

 

What does he have to do at Villa to justify replacing Klopp in '24? 

Is that, winning 1 trophy in 3 years, your only criteria? What about regenerating a club, getting players and fans to buy into his ideas, back the team etc.

 

Jurgen didnt win anything here for 5 years. He hadnt won anything at Dortmund for 4 seasons.

 

If you're going to hold criteria like '1 trophy in 3 years' as your criteria, you're ruling out some very good managers.

[Grinch]

How will he feel leaving Villa to work under less ambitious owners tho?

[Josef Svejk]

17 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

How many did they win in the few years before he came?

Did they exist a few years before he came? 

[Josef Svejk]

14 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

Is that, winning 1 trophy in 3 years, your only criteria? What about regenerating a club, getting players and fans to buy into his ideas, back the team etc.

 

Jurgen didnt win anything here for 5 years. He hadnt won anything at Dortmund for 4 seasons.

 

If you're going to hold criteria like '1 trophy in 3 years' as your criteria, you're ruling out some very good managers.

Jurgen was competing at a serious disadvantage in competitive leagues. 

 

Gerrard won a joke league when the manager we sacked left him to it. 

[Josef Svejk]

Ole won the Norwegian league, of course. And Frank made the play-offs. Similar achievements, I'd say... 

[Josef Svejk]

Gerrard may become a quality manager, of course. But he's done nothing as yet to appear on our radar. 

[halewood pete]

[Bjornebye]

 

 

 

 

[joe_fishfish]

1 hour ago, Bjornebye said:

All he has to do at Villa is get them punching above their weight for a couple of seasons. Top 8 and he's doing well. Doubt he will achieve it this season but if he keeps them up (he will) and then finishes in the top 8 for two seasons then he's doing a good job. 

If he keeps Villa up and then gets them back-to-back top 8 finishes that would be an incredible job. Their last top-half Premier League finish was in 2011!

[joe_fishfish]

sorry, double post

[joe_fishfish]

triple post, fucking hell

[El Rojo]

4 minutes ago, joe_fishfish said:

triple post, fucking hell

joe_fishfishfish

[dockers_strike]

1 hour ago, Josef Svejk said:

Jurgen was competing at a serious disadvantage in competitive leagues. 

 

Gerrard won a joke league when the manager we sacked left him to it. 

Oh come on, I really dont get this line of thinking. It seems whatever job Stevie gets or titles he wins, it wont be good enough for some people.

 

There's plenty of examples down the years of 'inexperienced' managers turning into good managers who win things.

 

The flaw in your argument is comparing Gerrard to Jurgen now or even after he'd won Bundesliga titles with Dortmund. The equal comparision to Gerrard now is Jurgen at Mainz.

 

 

[Boss]

Even getting into Europe with Villa doesn't make him a Liverpool manager in my opinion. Jurgen won two Bundesligas against Bayern and got Dortmund to a Champions League final. Benitez won two La Ligas against Barcelona and Real Madrid and a UEFA cup. Unless he gets Villa into the top 4 and has them in the knockout stage of the Champions League he's not ready to take over here. 

[TheHowieLama]

45 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

The equal comparision to Gerrard now is Jurgen at Mainz.

 

 

Only timewise  -   but it seems dumb to compare Mainz with winning a title for the first time in a decade and playing in Europe.

[Josef Svejk]

1 hour ago, dockers_strike said:

Oh come on, I really dont get this line of thinking. It seems whatever job Stevie gets or titles he wins, it wont be good enough for some people.

 

There's plenty of examples down the years of 'inexperienced' managers turning into good managers who win things.

 

The flaw in your argument is comparing Gerrard to Jurgen now or even after he'd won Bundesliga titles with Dortmund. The equal comparision to Gerrard now is Jurgen at Mainz.

 

 

I didn't introduce the Jurgen comparison. But, since we're on that topic, the club wouldn't have hired him as Liverpool manager without a track record of meaningful domestic (two Bundesliga titles) and European (Champions League final) achievement. The same should apply to Gerrard. 

[Bjornebye]

2 minutes ago, Josef Svejk said:

I didn't introduce the Jurgen comparison. But, since we're on that topic, the club wouldn't have hired him as Liverpool manager without a track record of meaningful domestic (two Bundesliga titles) and European (Champions League final) achievement. The same should apply to Gerrard. 

He'd have to do it abroad because he wouldn't take the City, Utd, Chelsea jobs ..... I'd hope. And if he did it with Newcastle in a few years it wouldn't mean much anyway 

[Trumo]

I get that he probably didn't want to let slip the opportunity for a PL job because it's something he would like to have sooner rather than later, and I get that the Scottish league has limited scope for progress when you already manage either of the Old Firm, but I think his progress would be better served by seeing out the season at Rangers, trying to win more domestic trophies and seeing whether he and the team can cope with a schedule that still includes European football as well as being there to be shot down domestically having won the league last year. Experience with this situation, even in an inferior league, would leave him better placed for a top PL job, especially the job we know he covets.

 

The big PL jobs are only offered to English managers if they've a track record of trophy success or were a club legend as a player and can be used as a placeholder until a successful foreign manager becomes available. As the former are in short supply, more of them need to try their luck abroad to broaden the experience level of English managers as a whole, and start associating them with trophy success again. English managers and consistent trophy success hasn't been a thing since the 80s.

[Bjornebye]

4 minutes ago, Trumo said:

I get that he probably didn't want to let slip the opportunity for a PL job because it's something he would like to have sooner rather than later, and I get that the Scottish league has limited scope for progress when you already manage either of the Old Firm, but I think his progress would be better served by seeing out the season at Rangers, trying to win more domestic trophies and seeing whether he and the team can cope with a schedule that still includes European football as well as being there to be shot down domestically having won the league last year. Experience with this situation, even in an inferior league, would leave him better placed for a top PL job, especially the job we know he covets.

 

The big PL jobs are only offered to English managers if they've a track record of trophy success or were a club legend as a player and can be used as a placeholder until a successful foreign manager becomes available. As the former are in short supply, more of them need to try their luck abroad to broaden the experience level of English managers as a whole, and start associating them with trophy success again. English managers and consistent trophy success hasn't been a thing since the 80s.

Jobs at PL clubs come along all the time, I agree he should have waited till the summer. 

[Moo]

5 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

How should I know?

 

My main thing is he's gone to a club where it's gonna be difficult to succeed and the shine will probably come off him. He should've stayed at Rangers until something bigger opens up, in England, abroad, whatever. In fact, he probably could have stayed there until Klopp leaves and we all know he'd probably get the job. 

I think Liverpool is the only massive job he could get straight from Rangers.  You seem pretty adamant there would be others willing to give him that chance, so I wondered who?

[dockers_strike]

2 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

Only timewise  -   but it seems dumb to compare Mainz with winning a title for the first time in a decade and playing in Europe.

It's not dumb when the comparison is experience wise in basically their first managerial roles. The point being Dortmund saw Jurgen's potential, similarly, Villa the same with Stevie.

1 hour ago, Josef Svejk said:

I didn't introduce the Jurgen comparison. But, since we're on that topic, the club wouldn't have hired him as Liverpool manager without a track record of meaningful domestic (two Bundesliga titles) and European (Champions League final) achievement. The same should apply to Gerrard. 

Correct, you didnt introduce Jurgen as an example, I did. See above why I used Jurgen's first managerial role and Stevie's.

 

If you're going to stipulate any future Liverpool manager has to have won a couple of league titles, it's going to severely limit future candidates.

 

Also, that criteria would slant the opportunities to some potential managers who'd managed at virtual nailed on title winners in say the Bundesliga being ex Bayern Serie A being ex Juve.

 

Personally, I dont think the next or future Liverpool manager has to have won a title or 2 to be considered for the role. Plus point, yes, necessary, no, I dont think so.

 

Not sure I agree Jurgen wouldnt have got the job here if he hadnt won the Bundesliga.

[Tony Moanero]

1 hour ago, Trumo said:

I get that he probably didn't want to let slip the opportunity for a PL job because it's something he would like to have sooner rather than later, and I get that the Scottish league has limited scope for progress when you already manage either of the Old Firm, but I think his progress would be better served by seeing out the season at Rangers, trying to win more domestic trophies and seeing whether he and the team can cope with a schedule that still includes European football as well as being there to be shot down domestically having won the league last year. Experience with this situation, even in an inferior league, would leave him better placed for a top PL job, especially the job we know he covets.

 

The big PL jobs are only offered to English managers if they've a track record of trophy success or were a club legend as a player and can be used as a placeholder until a successful foreign manager becomes available. As the former are in short supply, more of them need to try their luck abroad to broaden the experience level of English managers as a whole, and start associating them with trophy success again. English managers and consistent trophy success hasn't been a thing since the 80s.

Would the language barrier not be a problem for most English managers? 

[Arniepie]

4 hours ago, Josef Svejk said:

I didn't introduce the Jurgen comparison. But, since we're on that topic, the club wouldn't have hired him as Liverpool manager without a track record of meaningful domestic (two Bundesliga titles) and European (Champions League final) achievement. The same should apply to Gerrard. 

we shouldnt have hired kenny,paisley, fagan or houllier using that argument. 

[Tony Moanero]

4 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

we shouldnt have hired kenny,paisley, fagan or houllier using that argument. 

Or Bill Shankly.