Andy Carroll, what does he do?

[Guest LFD]

I thought it was his best performance for us this season vs Stoke. He might not have scored, like he did vs Everton - but his all round game was far better.

 

He held up the ball well, linked up play and was a handful winning headers.

 

He still drops too deep at times, but he was much improved.

[mht1892]

Every goal Suarez has scored this year bar the Arsenal one has been when Carroll has played, I think when Carroll plays it gives Luis more space to cause problems rather than him be isolated up front on his own, Carroll gotta play Saturday.

[Mathewbet1]

I think Carroll ties up defenders by his mear presence . Giving Suarez more room to weave his magic. His left footed shots always stay hit. Hope carrolls gonna be a slow burner the best is yet to come I think.

[piscinin]

Every goal Suarez has scored this year bar the Arsenal one has been when Carroll has played' date=' I think when Carroll plays it gives Luis more space to cause problems rather than him be isolated up front on his own, Carroll gotta play Saturday.[/quote']

 

Imagine if we had someone who could tie up defenders to create that space AND score.

[Guest ShoePiss]

And lots of top top players like Terry Henry and Ian Wright among others didnt shine til there mid to late 20's.

 

 

For me he is improving every time i see him play, can you honestly ask for more? Hes only a kid, he will come good and there is not another man on this planet i would rather have developing his ability and turning him into a goal machine than Kenny.

 

35 mil is alot of money, true. And is he worth it? only time will tell.

 

Henry and Wright are anomalies, there aren't lots of them at all. Fine, Carroll is going to be one that will shine when he's 26, I don't think we have such luxury to wait for him to not be a lumbering waste of space.

 

He's 23 in January, at 23 Ian Rush was banging them in, 32 in the league and 47 for the season and the best striker in the world. At 23 Fowler, Owen and Torres were the best in the league and Europe.

 

This is just an observation, but it seems big unit type centre forwards are a bit like a fine wine in that they get better with age. I can't remember too many six foot three 18 year olds making an impact. Can someone give me some names? I'm sure there are players who have done well early in their careers but not many.

 

Players like Niall Quinn, Peter Crouch, Duncan Ferguson, John Aldridge, Jan Koller, Christian Vieri, Darko Kovacevic are all similar types of striker and all were better players later in their careers

 

Aldridge might just scrape 6' but he was nothing fucking like Andy Carroll as a player. Crouch went through a long spell with us without scoring but he always contributed well and looked like he could be a useful player. Duncan Ferguson was an established player at 23 and made a big contribution to the blueshites season in his first year there. Naill Quin was a fucking cart horse so I hope that isn't what we are to expect from Andy Carroll although it looks like it. The others I don't have a clue about and can't be arsed looking it up.

 

I really hope he improves his game and becomes a very useful player for us, just yet to see it that's all and I'm tired of thinking up excuses for it.

[Il Fenomeno]

He's 23 in January, at 23 Ian Rush was banging them in, 32 in the league and 47 for the season and the best striker in the world. At 23 Fowler, Owen and Torres were the best in the league and Europe.

 

So was Carroll before we signed him to be fair! He seems to have lost something since moving here, and Kenny needs to take some of the blame for that, as the way the team is set up clearly isn't suiting Carroll.

[Guest ShoePiss]

So was Carroll before we signed him to be fair! He seems to have lost something since moving here, and Kenny needs to take some of the blame for that, as the way the team is set up clearly isn't suiting Carroll.

 

Carroll was what before we signed him? The best in the league, Europe, the world? Fucking hell.

 

You know what though, I can't wait to be wrong about this lad. I'd love him to click this season and perform like a great player.

[Il Fenomeno]

Carroll was what before we signed him? The best in the league, Europe, the world? Fucking hell.

 

You know what though, I can't wait to be wrong about this lad. I'd love him to click this season and perform like a great player.

 

I don't know what those questions have to do with what I said? I was simply saying Carroll was scoring goals, regularly, at Newcastle. Then he moved to Liverpool and has stopped scoring goals.

 

No matter how good you are, if you play in a team that doesn't suit your style of play then you're going to look poor, like Torres did at Chelsea in the second half of last season and like Ibrahimovic did at Barca at times. Even Mascherano looked pretty poor at Barcelona for the first 6 months or so until he moved to centre back, where he looked a bit better.

 

I think everyone would love him to be a great player mate, and at least he looked like he was a bit sharper against Stoke, let's hope we get the first of many goals and good performances against West Brom from him on Saturday.

[Guest ShoePiss]

I don't know what those questions have to do with what I said? I was simply saying Carroll was scoring goals, regularly, at Newcastle. Then he moved to Liverpool and has stopped scoring goals.

 

No matter how good you are, if you play in a team that doesn't suit your style of play then you're going to look poor, like Torres did at Chelsea in the second half of last season and like Ibrahimovic did at Barca at times. Even Mascherano looked pretty poor at Barcelona for the first 6 months or so until he moved to centre back, where he looked a bit better.

 

I think everyone would love him to be a great player mate, and at least he looked like he was a bit sharper against Stoke, let's hope we get the first of many goals and good performances against West Brom from him on Saturday.

 

Well you should know because you took part of my post and quoted it. The part you quoted was where I was saying at 23 Rush was banging them in, scored 32 league goals and 47 overall and was the best in the world and Fowler, Owen and Torres were the best in the league and Europe at 23.

 

You then said so was Carroll before we signed him to be fair.

 

Does it make sense now? Why do I have to do this for you? If you wanted to respond to the 'banging them in' part of the extracted quote maybe you should have quoted that bit and not the rest?

[piscinin]

Henry and Wright are anomalies, there aren't lots of them at all. Fine, Carroll is going to be one that will shine when he's 26, I don't think we have such luxury to wait for him to not be a lumbering waste of space.

 

He's 23 in January, at 23 Ian Rush was banging them in, 32 in the league and 47 for the season and the best striker in the world. At 23 Fowler, Owen and Torres were the best in the league and Europe.

 

I really hope he improves his game and becomes a very useful player for us, just yet to see it that's all and I'm tired of thinking up excuses for it.

 

How long did Rush spend in the reserves learning the liverpool way? Carroll is having to learn on the job, under pressure, in a team that is in transition, etc etc.

 

This team hasn't even sorted itself out yet and Carroll doesn't strike me as the kind of player that will adapt until that happens. There are too many moving pieces and parts for him at the moment. He needs the security of a few consistent set patterns of play to build from.

 

No idea, if he will eventually come good or not, but to me all of the prerequisites for success that rush enjoyed are not there yet, so he deserves time.

[Guest ShoePiss]

How long did Rush spend in the reserves learning the liverpool way? Carroll is having to learn on the job, under pressure, in a team that is in transition, etc etc.

 

This team hasn't even sorted itself out yet and Carroll doesn't strike me as the kind of player that will adapt until that happens. There are too many moving pieces and parts for him at the moment. He needs the security of a few consistent set patterns of play to build from.

 

No idea, if he will eventually come good or not, but to me all of the prerequisites for success that rush enjoyed are not there yet, so he deserves time.

 

About a season aged 19-20.

[zigackly]

Doesn't matter, it's a very fair point ShoePiss. Carroll is doubtless a much better player than we have seen so far, and it's the best reason available.

[piscinin]

About a season aged 19-20.

 

So once we've worked out the new liverpool way, he has a year. Good times are coming!

[zigackly]

There is also a hell of a lot of pressure on a lad who is not the most mentally stable. I don't know if he will work out for us, but we're not helping him and nor is dropping him after he scored in the derby to be honest.

 

I have noticed with all our new signings everyone is ready to jump straight down their throats at the first mistake, so one week Adam or Henderson are shit and the next they are fucking amazing.

 

Some balance and patience is what we need. Before we beat Stoke Kenny was shit as well.

 

It's insane. Literally pencils up the fucking nose and a tea towel on the head territory.

 

It's fair to say Carroll has been cack so far, but that is as far as it goes, or should go anyway.

[Guest ShoePiss]

Doesn't matter, it's a very fair point ShoePiss.

 

What doesn't matter? That Rush had a season in the reserves aged 19-20?

 

Which of our players would accept playing in the reserves to learn their trade? How long before they throw a strop and look elsewhere?

 

I'd love young new signings to spend some time in the reserves to learn the Liverpool way. The amount of money involved now, the way football has become all about money makes this method very difficult don't you think? It's a business with return on investment and shite like that coming into the equation.

[Il Fenomeno]

Well you should know because you took part of my post and quoted it. The part you quoted was where I was saying at 23 Rush was banging them in, scored 32 league goals and 47 overall and was the best in the world and Fowler, Owen and Torres were the best in the league and Europe at 23.

 

You then said so was Carroll before we signed him to be fair.

 

Does it make sense now? Why do I have to do this for you? If you wanted to respond to the 'banging them in' part of the extracted quote maybe you should have quoted that bit and not the rest?

 

So you knew exactly which part of your post I was referring to, but you were being pedantic to compensate for the fact that you had no actual argument? Glad that's cleared up.

[Mark M]

Why is Carroll being compared to Rush? They couldn't be any more different as a type of striker.

Carroll had a very good game against Stoke the other night and hopefully now will get a run of games which will help his confidence and match fitness.

[zigackly]

What doesn't matter? That Rush had a season in the reserves aged 19-20?

 

Which of our players would accept playing in the reserves to learn their trade? How long before they throw a strop and look elsewhere?

 

I'd love young new signings to spend some time in the reserves to learn the Liverpool way. The amount of money involved now, the way football has become all about money makes this method very difficult don't you think? It's a business with return on investment and shite like that coming into the equation.

 

No, that he was younger than Carroll which I thought was your point.

[zigackly]

Why is Carroll being compared to Rush? They couldn't be any more different as a type of striker.

 

Talk about fucking whoosh! That's ace that. I needed a laugh in this running arsehole of a thread.

[Guest ShoePiss]

There is also a hell of a lot of pressure on a lad who is not the most mentally stable. I don't know if he will work out for us, but we're not helping him and nor is dropping him after he scored in the derby to be honest.

 

I have noticed with all our new signings everyone is ready to jump straight down their throats at the first mistake, so one week Adam or Henderson are shit and the next they are fucking amazing.

 

Some balance and patience is what we need. Before we beat Stoke Kenny was shit as well.

 

It's insane. Literally pencils up the fucking nose and a tea towel on the head.

 

What I say here from Portland, Oregon has zero influence on what kind of performance Andy Carroll puts in. If it did I'd be his full time cheerleader.

 

I don't think Adam is up to much, he's 25 but I haven't expected much from him. Not jumped down his throat at all. Henderson is 20 and has shown signs that he can go on to become a very good player for us. Enrique is boss as is Bellamy.

 

I'm not some fucking kneejerk that changes opinion from one result to the next, look at my posts for the last 6 years or so and you'll see that's not the case.

 

I've never had a bad word to say about Kenny and never will, he's my lifetime hero. The end.

[Iceman]

Confidence is a big factor with any player as I am sure it is with Andy. The step up in expectations and the pressure that comes with a big money move has definitely affected his game.

 

Having said that, I think he looked a hell of a lot sharper against Stoke. I liked the little bit of selfishness he showed when he didn't lay off the ball and went for a shot. That was what he was doing a lot more for Newcastle.

[Guest ShoePiss]

So you knew exactly which part of your post I was referring to, but you were being pedantic to compensate for the fact that you had no actual argument? Glad that's cleared up.

 

Look it's you that got it wrong. I was hardly being pedantic. I understood what you were referring to after you explained you were talking about him scoring goals you big mong.

[zigackly]

What I say here from Portland, Oregon has zero influence on what kind of performance Andy Carroll puts in. If it did I'd be his full time cheerleader.

 

I don't think Adam is up to much, he's 25 but I haven't expected much from him. Not jumped down his throat at all. Henderson is 20 and has shown signs that he can go on to become a very good player for us. Enrique is boss as is Bellamy.

 

I'm not some fucking kneejerk that changes opinion from one result to the next, look at my posts for the last 6 years or so and you'll see that's not the case.

 

I've never had a bad word to say about Kenny and never will, he's my lifetime hero. The end.

 

Hey don't take it so personally, I am not just referring to you by any means.

 

If you think players or people they know do not pay any attention to what is being said about them, then I would call that a little naive perhaps though.

 

They are young men, normally not the brightest, and all want to be the big I am. Of course they take some notice of what people think.

 

Not that it should stop us saying what we think, but I don't know where the absolute viciousness towards our new signings is coming from this season.

 

It feels like being in a forum full of fucking Chelsea fans from time to time, except even they had the balls to stick with Torres when he was shite.

 

That should tell us something shouldn't it? Fucking Chelsea fans with more patience than Liverpool fans.

 

It's painful reading some of what's been said this season after a handful of games. Breaks my heart.

[piscinin]

What doesn't matter? That Rush had a season in the reserves aged 19-20?

 

Which of our players would accept playing in the reserves to learn their trade? How long before they throw a strop and look elsewhere?

 

I'd love young new signings to spend some time in the reserves to learn the Liverpool way. The amount of money involved now, the way football has become all about money makes this method very difficult don't you think? It's a business with return on investment and shite like that coming into the equation.

 

I wasn't suggesting he should play in the reserves BTW. Just drawing attention to the fact that Rushie had time to adapt; out of the spotlight and with the comfort of knowing that everyone around him knew exactly what was supposed to be going on. Carroll hasn't had that yet, so given the balance of his strengths and weakness, it's not surprising he's struggling.

[Iceman]

I wasn't suggesting he should play in the reserves BTW. Just drawing attention to the fact that Rushie had time to adapt; out of the spotlight and with the comfort of knowing that everyone around him knew exactly what was supposed to be going on. Carroll hasn't had that yet, so given the balance of his strengths and weakness, it's not surprising he's struggling.

 

This is a good point. The old school way was a lot easier on the player as they could take their time and learn "The Liverpool Way" away from the spotlight and the pressure. Kenny and Carroll don't enjoy that luxury.