Cameron: "Cuts will change our way of life"

[Red Mist]

To all you Tory lovers out there spreading your bumcheeks and coughing right now thinking its about reducing national debt I will say this.

 

The National debt will rise massively over their tenure, yes, you heard me, I promise you that. Unless someone thing breaks shit up early on that is, give them the 5-7 years they want and I can assure you it will have risen massively, except the money is not going to go into hospitals etc but private hands.

 

If they reduce national debt by a penny I will chop my arm off and donate it to the HJC. The will borrow more against the public.

 

Red mist the sum total of your opinions I could have got in the NOTW yesterday for 29p, enlightening stuff. Complete bollocks like but what do you expect for 29p?

Nobody gives a shit about your insane ramblings. Why don't you go and post a news article somewhere, that seems to be your only function on here, you strange, news-bot type person. And you have the cheek to accuse me of being influenced by tabloids.

[Hermes]

Firstly, as a newcomer here, may I express my pleasure at alighting upon a forum in which matters of great pitch and moment are discussed in a calm, civilized and reasonable manner and where the unpleasant extremes of personal abuse and vitriol are scrupulously avoided at all times.

 

I look forward to exchanging opinions and views with many of you and to contributing myself to the maintenance of this forum's polite and dignified ethos.

 

Who asked for your opinion Taffy?

[dennis tooth]

Hello there. I'm very worried about your arm then.

 

The cuts are coming whether you like it or not. The Coalition's got no choice in the matter. And what's more, they were given a clear mandate to do it at the last GE.

 

The sooner they start the better. Apart from a few unreconstructed old lefties like Tony Benn et al, everyone else can see that it's necessary and inevitable.

 

Er, there's a few million who disagree, who've you polled?

 

Secondly, and this is the most glaring issue you are not aware of in your proclamation, cuts do not reduce national debt, never have.

 

Thirdly who 'mandated' a 'coalition'? (The coalition themselves?) Nobody voted for coalition.

[Whollier]

Who asked for yours? English emigre actually, living here in soaking Wales.

[dennis tooth]

Nobody gives a shit about your insane ramblings. Why don't you go and post a news article somewhere, that seems to be your only function on here, you strange, news-bot type person. And you have the cheek to accuse me of being influenced by tabloids.

 

Well yes because your ideas don't have a credibility or bear any serious scrutiny outside of advertisment revenue seeking tabloids.

[Whollier]

You don't appear to understand how parliamentary democracy works dennis.

 

All governments are coalitions, always have been. Political parties themselves are coalitions of people with broadly similar views.

 

They used to teach that sort of stuff at school. Guess they don't anymore.

[Red Mist]

Firstly, as a newcomer here, may I express my pleasure at alighting upon a forum in which matters of great pitch and moment are discussed in a calm, civilized and reasonable manner and where the unpleasant extremes of personal abuse and vitriol are scrupulously avoided at all times.

 

I look forward to exchanging opinions and views with many of you and to contributing myself to the maintenance of this forum's polite and dignified ethos. If there are any members here who used to enjoy the cut-and-thrust of the old BBC 5 Live Message Board, feel free to make yourself known to me. I used to be active there myself under a different screen name.

 

Of course the cuts are necessary. Labour spent the money we didn't have and now it wants to spend even more. They expect future generations to pay for their own irresponsibility and incompetence.

 

Well that isn't fair. I can understand why that course of action might appeal to childless people, apres moi le deluge and all the rest of it. It's selfish and appears seductively easy. But to anyone with children, do you really want to steal their future prosperity from them?

 

No, we need to bite the bullet now and get on with it. No gain without pain. And the unions can like it or lump it.

Welcome. I'm afraid your sensible thoughts will be swiftly met with insult and scorn, since this place is dominated by the loony left. Be warned - thick skin required when opposing the viewpoints of the leftist rabble.

[Jose Jones]

Who asked for yours? English emigre actually, living here in soaking Wales.

 

Hello Whollier* . I believe Hermes was having a little josh with you there, after you'd remarked how civilised the forum was, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

* try saying that 6 times fast whilst drunk and wanking off a hippo

[Hermes]

A Barber who doesn't want cuts?

 

Typical, work-shy socialist.

[dennis tooth]

Welcome. I'm afraid your sensible thoughts will be swiftly met with insult and scorn, since this place is dominated by the loony left. Be warned - thick skin required when opposing the viewpoints of the leftist rabble.

 

 

Yeah, shit like this, it's the loony left's fault:

 

"Nobody gives a shit about your insane ramblings."

[Whollier]

Thanks for the warning RM. I'll bear it in mind in future.

 

A lot of them are furious right now and gnashing their teeth because they're afraid their benefits are going to be cut as well.

[dennis tooth]

You don't appear to understand how parliamentary democracy works dennis.

 

All governments are coalitions, always have been. Political parties themselves are coalitions of people with broadly similar views.

 

They used to teach that sort of stuff at school. Guess they don't anymore.

 

Ah, quite the leaping lord are we, let's see if you logical retraction refraction system of reduction and wordplay can bear the other two questions I put to you on the other issues regarding cuts you appear to have back away from.

 

Barack to your reply though, nobody mandated a coalition such as you refer to, the two largest vote bearers were Labour and Tory so your argument falls by it's own logic, I am fully familiar with the idea of democracy so you can retract that part later when you find I am more so than you given you have already made a number of glaring errors, not least the worst one of all that the cuts will reduce national debt and secondly that the current government will do so in their tenure.....that's for a bit later though I wouldn't want to have all my fun at once, most studies recommend you draw the enjoyment of things in life out over a long period of time rather than eat a cake all at once and end up like that fella who won the lottery back on the dole. I hope others can learn from your example.

[Jose Jones]

Firstly, as a newcomer here, may I express my pleasure at alighting upon a forum in which matters of great pitch and moment are discussed in a calm, civilized and reasonable manner and where the unpleasant extremes of personal abuse and vitriol are scrupulously avoided at all times.

 

I look forward to exchanging opinions and views with many of you and to contributing myself to the maintenance of this forum's polite and dignified ethos. If there are any members here who used to enjoy the cut-and-thrust of the old BBC 5 Live Message Board, feel free to make yourself known to me. I used to be active there myself under a different screen name.

 

Of course the cuts are necessary. Labour spent the money we didn't have and now it wants to spend even more. They expect future generations to pay for their own irresponsibility and incompetence.

 

Well that isn't fair. I can understand why that course of action might appeal to childless people, apres moi le deluge and all the rest of it. It's selfish and appears seductively easy. But to anyone with children, do you really want to steal their future prosperity from them?

 

No, we need to bite the bullet now and get on with it. No gain without pain. And the unions can like it or lump it.

 

A large proportion of the money was spent on propping up the banking industry - do you think it's now fair that the very same executives who's decisions contributed to financial meltdown of a scale not seen since the second world war should be still in their jobs reaping hundreds of thousands of pounds of bonuses, whilst public workers who's tax money paid for the bailout are now being sacked to help pay back the money for it?

 

Do you think that making up to 1 million more people unemployed and put on benefits will stimulate the economy so that government revenues go up to claw back some of the deficit?

 

Do you think that cutting funding to universities will lead to greater innovation and creation of future companies and jobs in Britain?

 

Do you think cutting education funding will lead to a more skilled workforce, attracting overseas companies to set up and employ people in the UK?

 

Do you think that abolishing all the regional development agencies, apart from in London of course, will stimulate the growth of employment opportunities in cities and communities outside of the south east?

 

Do you think all the decisions have been taken solely on practical economic basis?

[dennis tooth]

Thanks for the warning RM. I'll bear it in mind in future.

 

A lot of them are furious right now and gnashing their teeth because they're afraid their benefits are going to be cut as well.

 

Liverpool Echo - News - Liverpool Local News - Disabled man refused benefits despite having two false legs

 

Yeah look at this loony lefty, lazy fucking bastard.

[JER]

Good news, the government is finally to get to grips with the insane welfare system which for years has blighted taxpayers.

 

No surprise that Labour are bitching about this for they introduced this appalling culture of healthy people actively refusing to work, instead preferring the taxpayer to pay for their lazy lifestyle.

 

An interesting take - most objective observers would suggest that Thatcher and her decimating of British Industry had a tad to do with it - I'm sure you're right, though.

[Whollier]

I don't know where you get the idea that I said the cuts would reduce the National Debt dennis. Bet you can't quote me on it.

 

I take it you're one of those people who would vote for a donkey if someone pinned a Labour rosette on it.

 

I'm afraid that in real life, nobody votes for a government. You don't even vote for a party. You vote for an individual man or woman to represent the interests of you and your fellow constituents at Westminster.

 

Once the election is over the elected men and women get their heads together and form a government. This time round the Coalition is the product of the process.

 

They've made it clear that they see deficit reduction as the most urgent issue confronting them and they're getting on with making the hard choices that Labour should have done but didn't, because they were either too stupid or to scared to do it.

 

You should join me in wishing them well.

[bossy]

It seems nobody read my post earlier about The Big Short a book written about the collapse of the sub prime mortgage market in USA.

 

This book explains why there is no money around; it's got very little to do with people pretending they can't work and other benefit cheats, it's all about Wall St firms giving loans to millions of people who couldn't afford to pay them back.

 

These mortgages were packaged together and sold on to other firms around the world including HSBC et al over here on the assumption that as real estate prices in the US had risen for 70 years they would continue to do so. Because they were sold to corporate banks wings rather than your everyday variety there was no regulation because no one understood them. We are talking hundreds of billion dollars of loans here that eventually defaulted leading to the banking collapse that Governments all over the world had to shore up or there would literally be no money available.

 

That is why these cuts are happening and the cuts are going to be ferocious, I don't think many people have sussed yet just how hard they are going to be hit.

 

Pray you keep your jobs, homes, health and all the rest because the rich want money and the general population are going to pay.

 

Seriously, read The Big Short if you can, it's written by and about capitalists - about a dozen of them - who sussed what was going on, could literally not believe it and earned themselves a lot of money by betting against Wall St having any fucking clue about what it was doing.

[Guest TesticleOReilly]

Liverpool Echo - News - Liverpool Local News - Disabled man refused benefits despite having two false legs

 

Yeah look at this loony lefty, lazy fucking bastard.

 

Yeah, but come on, most dossers just use their dole money to get legless. He's already there, why give him any more?

[Whollier]

Those are fair enough questions Jose and I'll do my best to answer you.

 

I don't know anyone who enjoys seeing millionaire bankers being rewarded for failure. But really it's the business of the bank's shareholders to determine the pay and conditions of the directors. Anyway, I wouldn't advise voting Labour if you want that issue addressed. They didn't do anything about it and it was Brown's spatchcock regulatory system that allowed the problem to get so bad in the first place.

 

Nobody really wants to see lots of people put on the dole for the sake of it, but do you buy the unions' line that every single one of those jobs is vital? We can't do without any of them? One union leader even said today that cutting government jobs would result in a decline in revenue because of the loss of income tax paid by the workers! I mean, how economically illiterate is that?

 

As for education and training and all the other nice things you have in mind, they're desirable if we can afford them. We can't at the moment.

[bossy]

You are wrong. I'm not a labour voter but Brown and Darling saved the economy when the banks failed. Nobody, nobody new about the amount of sub prime shit and what it really was about it was hidden from view.

[dennis tooth]

I don't know where you get the idea that I said the cuts would reduce the National Debt dennis. Bet you can't quote me on it.

 

I take it you're one of those people who would vote for a donkey if someone pinned a Labour rosette on it.

 

I'm afraid that in real life, nobody votes for a government. You don't even vote for a party. You vote for an individual man or woman to represent the interests of you and your fellow constituents at Westminster.

 

Once the election is over the elected men and women get their heads together and form a government. This time round the Coalition is the product of the process.

 

They've made it clear that they see deficit reduction as the most urgent issue confronting them and they're getting on with making the hard choices that Labour should have done but didn't, because they were either too stupid or to scared to do it.

 

You should join me in wishing them well.

 

Er I have voted once in my life, that was for the Lib Dem candidate after the Iraq was waged based on their claims they would withdraw before they shit it anyway.

I did it more in the hope rather than anything else, that other peple might vote on morals or see through the labour fallacy.

 

I never have and never would vote labour, they certainly have represented the left in my lifetime, they are a centrist/centre right party in policy whilst spouting left ideals. There is very, very little difference between Tory policy and Labour policy

Again, you couldn't be more wrong and I really think you may have bitten off more than you would wish to chew publically here.

 

Again I can assure you I am fully aware of the process, the last part you are citing where people get together to make deals for themselves over and above what people have actually voted for is not what I equate with democracy as I understand it, we don't live in a democracy, ask the queen for more info if you are unsure on that.

As an aside to this, I don't need to quote you, anyone can see what you have written already is enough, you equate what the Tories are doing with an outcome for something you appear to have no idea yourself about, the concept of national debt itself which appears to be leading to false conclusions.

Whether the Tories had gotten in themselves, whether we had this coalition or even if Labour had stayed in power, the national debt would increase regardless.

 

I'll speed things up a bit for you by throwing you this gem, had every single one of the banks in this country failed national debt would have been 0.

[dennis tooth]

It seems nobody read my post earlier about The Big Short a book written about the collapse of the sub prime mortgage market in USA.

 

This book explains why there is no money around; it's got very little to do with people pretending they can't work and other benefit cheats, it's all about Wall St firms giving loans to millions of people who couldn't afford to pay them back.

 

These mortgages were packaged together and sold on to other firms around the world including HSBC et al over here on the assumption that as real estate prices in the US had risen for 70 years they would continue to do so. Because they were sold to corporate banks wings rather than your everyday variety there was no regulation because no one understood them. We are talking hundreds of billion dollars of loans here that eventually defaulted leading to the banking collapse that Governments all over the world had to shore up or there would literally be no money available.

 

That is why these cuts are happening and the cuts are going to be ferocious, I don't think many people have sussed yet just how hard they are going to be hit.

 

Pray you keep your jobs, homes, health and all the rest because the rich want money and the general population are going to pay.

 

Seriously, read The Big Short if you can, it's written by and about capitalists - about a dozen of them - who sussed what was going on, could literally not believe it and earned themselves a lot of money by betting against Wall St having any fucking clue about what it was doing.

 

Wrong mate, it's true only if the banks are literally left in charge and able to print/create money at the point of conception. The rest of it was good though.

[Strontium]

A large proportion of the money was spent on propping up the banking industry...

 

 

Like the "global crisis" mantra, this is one of those canards that has scant relation to the facts. The amount added to our national debt because of the bank bailout is a fraction of the total national debt. It's an extremely convenient scapegoat, but most of the debt is due to other things.

[Whollier]

I get it dennis. You're the bloke who sees deeply into the heart of things and knows how the levers of power really work, in ways which are hidden to mere mortals like the rest of us.

 

The government's been spending too much and as a result of that profligacy it's been taking too much of the national revenue in taxation especially from the majority of people on low and average incomes. But even that wasn't enough and it had to borrow too much as well.

 

Bottom line, people are getting fed up with handing their hard-earned cash to a bunch of shysters who then waste it in ways they don't approve of.

 

The Coalition has said enough is enough and has promised to trim the fat. About time too. If they get on with the job with the right amount of energy and determination then the mess left behind by Labour might get cleaned up sooner than we think.

[Strontium]

Liverpool Echo - News - Liverpool Local News - Disabled man refused benefits despite having two false legs

 

Yeah look at this loony lefty, lazy fucking bastard.

 

 

I see the Oldham Echo are continuing their proud tradition of not letting the facts get in the way of a good story!

 

He was “dumbfounded” to be told he didn’t qualify – only then to find he had been assessed using records from when he was still able-bodied.

 

A spokesman for the Department for Work and Pensions said: “We have spoken to Mr Carr, to discuss further his individual circumstances and based on the facts now presented by him, have been able to revise decisions in his favour.”