Nabil El Zhar

[Whelan]

Us sitting deep just doesn't work though. How many times do we get stung by doing it ? You can't compare Inter to us as they have by far better defenders. We sat deep and Athletico gained in confidence. We should have defended further up the field and had another option up front to hold on to the ball and make them defend. But we didn't, we went all Benitez defensive and paid the price for the umpteenth time this season.

 

That's my point!

 

We have a current thread on Johnsons lack of defensive stability, and yet here we are criticising the team for sitting! Maicon isn't the best defender in the world either, but within that unit he looks solid.

 

Had we played further up the pitch we would have been caught out with the ball either through the defense or over the full backs, if you lack pace at the back then you have to deny space in the final third, as I say, until that mistake they did not once get a chance in the area, not once so that to me suggest we were doing okay.

 

It was one mistake and one goal, as has been tale all this seaons and for the past ten fucking years, we need 5 chances to score and yet the opposition seem to need one.

[zigackly]

You don't have to sit deep to have defensive stability Whelan, you have to work as a unit and have a good tactical understanding of the game. Sitting deep just invites pressure, and means you have a fuck of a lot more work to do in a transition. Sometimes the best form of defence IS attack.

[Whelan]

You don't have to sit deep to have defensive stability Whelan, you have to work as a unit and have a good tactical understanding of the game. Sitting deep just invites pressure, and means you have a fuck of a lot more work to do in a transition. Sometimes the best form of defence IS attack.

 

Can't argue with any of that, but Babel apart we did not have the pace to hit them on the break, as I say, we generally defended really well last night, but one fucking mistake, as it was one mistake in the first leg.

 

That is all it has took this season, Lyon home and away, United away, Chelsea away, Arsenal home and away! I am not suggesting you ignore that, but I don't think they scored because we were sitting deep, they scored because we made a mistake.

 

And, what I will say, is that more than anything else next season I think the lack of character needs to be addressed, we must be into double figures this season for the amount of matches that we have been leading, only to find ourselves behind and offered nothing in response. It is though one slight knock and they are finished!

[Guest Pistonbroke]

That's my point!

 

We have a current thread on Johnsons lack of defensive stability, and yet here we are criticising the team for sitting! Maicon isn't the best defender in the world either, but within that unit he looks solid.

 

Had we played further up the pitch we would have been caught out with the ball either through the defense or over the full backs, if you lack pace at the back then you have to deny space in the final third, as I say, until that mistake they did not once get a chance in the area, not once so that to me suggest we were doing okay.

 

It was one mistake and one goal, as has been tale all this seaons and for the past ten fucking years, we need 5 chances to score and yet the opposition seem to need one.

 

At the stage the game was we needed to attack. One more goal would have killed them off. But we went into defensive mode and got what we deserved. Once they scored we ran around like headless chickens without any plan whatsoever.

[Whelan]

At the stage the game was we needed to attack. One more goal would have killed them off. But we went into defensive mode and got what we deserved. Once they scored we ran around like headless chickens without any plan whatsoever.

 

When we scored we caught them two or three times, but nothing come of it. But I agree with what you are saying about us as soon as they scored, lack of character and it has been all to familiar this season.

[Kevin D]

Makes you wonder if Rafa went on holiday to Morocco 23 years ago. Does Montse know?

 

Everyone knows Rafa spent that time in the Porto Alegre region of Brazil.

 

You don't have to sit deep to have defensive stability Whelan, you have to work as a unit and have a good tactical understanding of the game. Sitting deep just invites pressure, and means you have a fuck of a lot more work to do in a transition. Sometimes the best form of defence IS attack.

 

The longer the game went, the more it favoured Athletico. We didn't think enough of ourselves to believe we could get three goals and they knew it. With the attacking players they had, they were always going to get one big chance and probably take it. That's precisely why we should have been up and at em in the early stages of the second half, not retreating and allowing them to tire us out.

[DonaldDonaldson]

We can’t maintain a higher defensive line when Carragher is in the team, because he’d be liable to get sent off every game as he is so fucking slow. He got caught out in the first leg in the move that led to the goal, and he got a booking in the second leg for deliberately impeding Aguero when he (Aguero) would have been clean through on goal.

 

If we play a high defensive line, squeezing the opposition, then it’s up to the defenders to be more independent. We were more attacking at the start of the season yet were shipping goals so the carrapologists started pointing their fingers at everybody else and screaming (just like Carragher) to be more ‘compact’ - a euphemism for “pack the defence around King Carra and just let him hoof away any loose balls in the box while showcasing those out-of-this-world ‘organisation skills’, i.e. let him shout and wave his arms about.

[zigackly]

We can’t maintain a higher defensive line when Carragher is in the team

 

1. Read first sentence.

2. Check username.

3. Shake head.

4. Move on.

[DonaldDonaldson]

1. Read first sentence.

2. Check username.

3. Shake head.

4. Move on.

 

Translation: "I can't think of any points of substance to provide a counter-argument, so I'll just settle on a useless comment and wait for the rest of the carrapologists to swing by".

[Kevin D]

We can’t maintain a higher defensive line when Carragher is in the team, because he’d be liable to get sent off every game as he is so fucking slow. He got caught out in the first leg in the move that led to the goal, and he got a booking in the second leg for deliberately impeding Aguero when he (Aguero) would have been clean through on goal.

 

If we play a high defensive line, squeezing the opposition, then it’s up to the defenders to be more independent. We were more attacking at the start of the season yet were shipping goals so the carrapologists started pointing their fingers at everybody else and screaming (just like Carragher) to be more ‘compact’ - a euphemism for “pack the defence around King Carra and just let him hoof away any loose balls in the box while showcasing those out-of-this-world ‘organisation skills’, i.e. let him shout and wave his arms about.

 

Humour me here, but why do you think Carragher is regarded as one of the best defenders in the country and is a mainstay in our team?

[DonaldDonaldson]

Humour me here, but why do you think Carragher is regarded as one of the best defenders in the country and is a mainstay in our team?

 

I'm not aware that Carragher is regarded as one of the best defenders in the country, but if he is I'd like his supporters to list exactly those attributes they admire so much. As I've said in previous posts, I concede that he is a good shot-blocker with courage, but's he's not particularly strong, so can't out-muscle opponents, he's well below average in the air for a centre-back so can't dominate aerially, and he's painfully slow so will be exposed by players with only moderate pace.

 

We play in a ultra-defensive system (and did under Houllier), so he gets a lot of help from the team, to the detriment of our attacking ambitions because we are so deep. If we consistently played a more attacking game, which would inevitably lead to the defence being exposed further up the field on more occassions then Carragher's numerous shortcomings would be brought into sharper focus.

[WaltonRed]

I've heard it all now. Its JC's fault.

[Guest PurpleNose]

Not for a minute agreeing with Donald's assertions about Carragher, but he really isn't regarded as one of the best defenders in the country by anyone other than Liverpool fans. Certainly not anymore.

[WaltonRed]

He is because he is.

[zigackly]

Translation: "I can't think of any points of substance to provide a counter-argument, so I'll just settle on a useless comment and wait for the rest of the carrapologists to swing by".

 

I see you've bought tickets on yourself, but I don't want any thanks. I noticed a while back that every single post you make is a snide dig at Carra. It's not worth attempting a counter-argument, you're a manic obsessive.

[Guest PurpleNose]

He is because he is.

 

He isn't. Regardless of whether he is or not.

[Spy Bee]

Carragher isn't our biggest problem, but he's far from our best assett.

[Kevin D]

I'm not aware that Carragher is regarded as one of the best defenders in the country, but if he is I'd like his supporters to list exactly those attributes they admire so much. As I've said in previous posts, I concede that he is a good shot-blocker with courage, but's he's not particularly strong, so can't out-muscle opponents, he's well below average in the air for a centre-back so can't dominate aerially, and he's painfully slow so will be exposed by players with only moderate pace.

 

We play in a ultra-defensive system (and did under Houllier), so he gets a lot of help from the team, to the detriment of our attacking ambitions because we are so deep. If we consistently played a more attacking game, which would inevitably lead to the defence being exposed further up the field on more occassions then Carragher's numerous shortcomings would be brought into sharper focus.

 

I don't think you've answered my initial question. If Jamie Carragher is not particularly strong, poor in the air and slow, then why has he been our first choice CB for six years now? Why have there been no attempts to drop and replace him? Why do you think he gets his game?

[DonaldDonaldson]

I see you've bought tickets on yourself, but I don't want any thanks. I noticed a while back that every single post you make is a snide dig at Carra. It's not worth attempting a counter-argument, you're a manic obsessive.

 

Well why then did you even make an initial reply to a 'manic obsessive' in the first place, instead of just serenely sailing by? Cretin!

[zigackly]

Well why then did you even make an initial reply to a 'manic obsessive' in the first place, instead of just serenely sailing by? Cretin!

 

It's Friday afternoon and I'm watching the clock. I've done my timesheet and I can't be arsed doing any more work since I've done as much as the rest of my team combined this week.

[DonaldDonaldson]

I don't think you've answered my initial question. If Jamie Carragher is not particularly strong, poor in the air and slow, then why has he been our first choice CB for six years now? Why have there been no attempts to drop and replace him? Why do you think he gets his game?

 

"why do you think Carragher is regarded as one of the best defenders in the country?"

 

I've already said that I'm not aware of this. I don't agree that he is one of the best defenders in the country. If it was the prevailing view then my answer would be: "Carragher is regarded as one of the best defenders in the country because most people are clueless", or something similar.

 

"....and is a mainstay in our team?".

 

As I've already said, we play in an ultra defensive formation, and he does a good job of shot-blocking in and around the penalty area, and general mopping up. Yet, how many credible title challanges has this (including the Houllier years at full back) yielded? Plus, he can always go running to his media stooge to have a sly moan if things are not going his way and get the carrapologists fired up.

 

"If Jamie Carragher is not particularly strong, poor in the air and slow, then why has he been our first choice CB for six years now? Why have there been no attempts to drop and replace him? Why do you think he gets his game?"

 

Again, suited to the ultra-defensive formation. Rafa tried to ease him out the frame into full back - remember Bascombe doing the hatchet job on Skrtl, histrionics on the pitch? Also, playing alongside a dominant player such as Sami Hypia masked Carragher's shortcomings to some extent.

 

At the start of the season we played a more attacking game and the defence, with Carragher in particular, were all over the place. We were shipping far too many goals, Rafa bottled it and went back to the pack-the-defence method - happy days for Carragher.

[Redder Lurtz]

Ah. The FF. Start a thread about one subject and watch it slowly disintegrate into an argument about something completely different. It's a beautiful thing.

[Wor Horse]

I watched the game in the pub with a West Brom fan and she said El Zhar would not get a game for them and she was not joking - just about sums it up really.

!

 

What were you doing in the pub's kitchen mate?

[The Robot Tank]

And we have got the cunt for another 2 years!!

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverUpool/8145886.stm

 

The 22-year-old Moroccan international made 19 appearances for the first team last season, helping the club finish second in the Premier League

 

Did he? What did he do?

 

If he can't even make the bench every game, even when he is fit what the fuck does rafa see in him?

 

To be fair to the lad, he played well last season. He was often given about 5 minutes but he always changed the tempo of the game by gluing his short arse to the RW. I remember we didn't score unless he was on the pitch in the first month or so of last season.

 

After last season, I'd have thought he'd push on and become, I dunno, the next Valbuena. But Rafa's used him less, even though he's gotten older and spent a full season with the first team.

 

And, and, we turned down AEK's request to take him on loan and offered them Nemeth.

 

Big mistake..

[Red Hot]

The lad simply isn't good enough to even be on the bench.