Other football - 2017/18 edition.

[Elite]

Got talking to the aunt of a young irish lad at city when on holiday. She was a lovely lady and a big red who i got to know watching the football.

 

She was saying the facilities are unbelievable (to be fair at all the top clubs they seem to be) and their level of attention to their younger players incredible. I could see them becoming the go to club for most of the very best young players in the North.

 

They are around for the long term and ain't going nowhere.

That may well be but they aren't going to get games.

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

Got talking to the aunt of a young irish lad at city when on holiday. She was a lovely lady and a big red who i got to know watching the football.

She was saying the facilities are unbelievable (to be fair at all the top clubs they seem to be) and their level of attention to their younger players incredible. I could see them becoming the go to club for most of the very best young players in the North.

They are around for the long term and ain't going nowhere.

Cannot bring myself to admire anything they do. Not saying you are by the way. Oil money and dodgy human rights. As much as I would love us to be a force again I don't think I'd line that, used to think it wouldn't bother me. Guardiola can just keep spending, has to win it all really, anything else would be unnaceptable unless it's against the other of the shower of cunts PSG.

[dockers_strike]

City will just stock pile young players like Chelsea did or loan them out eventually but they will not get to play in the first team unless there are exceptional circumstances. They have just lost one lad to Dortmund who could not see a way into the first team. In the end it will become soul destroying for the lads.

[Ronnie Whelan]

Cannot bring myself to admire anything they do. Not saying you are by the way. Oil money and dodgy human rights. As much as I would love us to be a force again I don't think I'd line that, used to think it wouldn't bother me. Guardiola can just keep spending, has to win it all really, anything else would be unnaceptable unless it's against the other of the shower of cunts PSG.

Absolutely. I despise the other mancs but people like busby and even fergie with the class of 92' did it in a more wholesome way. I can't believe i just said that because i hate them with their cunty fans and the media love in but there is nothing likeable about how City are buying players. I used to like their fans but i'm sure their likeability will decrease as they become cocky and begin to look down their nose at us,Arsenal and United which they will.

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

Absolutely. I despise the other mancs but people like busby and even fergie with the class of 92' did it in a more wholesome way. I can't believe i just said that because i hate them with their cunty fans and the media love in but there is nothing likeable about how City are buying players. I used to like their fans but i'm sure their likeability will decrease as they become cocky and begin to look down their nose at us,Arsenal and United which they will.

Mentioned this before but I have a mate I met in Kos many years ago, Bath Rugby fan really but latched into City as his Mrs supports them, she's a Manc. Changed from being so grateful and excited to we can do anything in a few years. Knew fuck all about the club till I told him.

He's 65.

[an tha]

Rafa getting stuck in about transfers/wages.

 

Would be very revealing if he was operating here under FSG!

[TheHowieLama]

City will just stock pile young players like Chelsea did or loan them out eventually but they will not get to play in the first team unless they are exceptional 

 

I edited this a little for you - but shouldn't that be the case everywhere? Only exceptional players should be in the top teams in the world by definition.

 

Using Chelsea we see a couple examples in extreme - one is Christensen, a lad at 21 after being out on loan for a couple of years who is now a mainstay of the side.

 

The other now plays for City in DeBruyne. Nothing to see there huh? 

 

Do you think Loftus-Cheek will get a look in?

 

FFS - they have had a 17 year old in the matchday squad more often than not over the last couple months.

[Gym Beglin]

City's start to this season has been blistering, they've only dropped 2 points, winning 12 out of 13 games. Their next two games are at home, against Southampton and West Ham.  Game 16 is Man United away.

 

So far, that's 37 points from first 13 games.

 

To contextualise that, using 3 point win for all examples:

 

2003 - Arsenal win 10 and draw 3 of first 13 games (unbeaten all season)

Points after 15 games = 35

 

1987 - Liverpool win 10 and draw 1 of first 11 games (drew games 12, 13, 14)

Points after 15 games = 37

 

1978 - Liverpool win 11 and draw 1 of first 12 games (lose 13th to Everton) 

Points after 15 games = 38

 

1991 - Liverpool win 12 of first 13 games (draw game 14)

Points after 15 games = 38

 

1985 - United win 14 and draw 2 of first 16 games (then lose 4 and draw 2 of next 8)

Points after 15 games = 41

 

1960 - Spurs win 15 and draw 1 of their first 16 games (then lose in game 17)

Points after 15 games = 43

 

 

Note that in 2 of these cases the team did not go on to win the league (Liverpool 1991 and United 1985).

[Guest Alex_K]

That United example is quite amusing. 20 years after their last title.

[Stickman]

To be fair to the Liverpool 78-79 (the greatest ever in my opinion) side it was a lot harder to win games then as teams played for a point a lot more than now even accounting for Mourinho

[Gym Beglin]

Even so, but City remain two games off equaling a record that has stood for 57 years, and then go into the Manc derby on the verge of setting a new record in this country.

 

When you think that they have done this whilst simultaneously crushing their CL group with 5 straight wins, and are also in the QF of the league cup, it's outrageous. 

 

Ederson has made such a massive difference to them.  10 clean sheets in 20 games in all comps, and conceded no more than 1 goal in another 7 games. 

[Gym Beglin]

RED CARDS

3 red cards shown to City opposition in the league this season. (Schneiderlin, Mane, La Parra)

2 red cards shown to Arsenal opposition.  (Gueuye, Luiz)

1 red card shown to Spurs opposition. (Shelvey)

0 red cards shown to United opposition.

0 red cards shown to Chelsea opposition.

0 red cards shown to Liverpool opposition.

 

PENALTIES

4 pens awarded to City in the league this season & 0 pens given against.

2 pens awarded to Liverpool & 1 pen given against.

2 pens awarded to Arsenal & 2 pens given against.

1 pen awarded to United & 0 pens given against.

0 pens awarded to Chelsea & 1 pen given against.

0 pens awarded to Spurs & 0 pens given against.

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

Amazing what having a huge expensive squad and no restriction on spending can do. How do they do it. A mere 200m this summer, what last 150m? Before that?

 

But but but you still have to do it on the pitch!

 

Two words, the second is off!

[Jockey]

I just don't get how Chelsea have not been pulled up over their approach to loans - they are basically improving the teams in the lower half of the league, knowing they will be weakened when they play them? 

 

Look at Loftus-Cheek - Chelsea will no doubt offer him a £4m a year contract when his current deal runs out - he will take it because it is £4m a year. They will charge a team like Palace £2m a year and get them to pay 50% of his wages - if/when it comes to making a decision on his future they can expect £20m plus. They get to keep a player for no cost, and develop an advantage over other teams without any cost to themselves. 

 

Not one thought would have gone into the development of the player - just a load of talented young players, playing for teams below mid-table earning a shit load and therefore stopping them from moving abroad to better teams. I realise it is essentially up to the player - but these are young kids, who take guidance from agents. 

 

Loftus-Cheek would be better off, running his contract down and signing for a team like PSV, or Benfica and playing at a higher level in terms of technique, trophies (and big games) and European competition. If he proves good enough he can move on and earn more money. 

 

I think there should be some laws to the system;

 

• limit the number of loans per team (or limit the amount of players loaned to premiership)
• limit the percentage of the wage that teams pay - if Chelsea want him to sign then they must be contributing at least 50% of his wage. 
• limit loan fees to £1m (it shouldn't be a revenue stream)
• limit the loaning of players who are older than 23 e.g. one year max. 

[J-V]

PSV, Benfica? Come to Liverpool and be our best central midfielder.

[TheHowieLama]

You might be off a little on the figures for that fella - if Ox was 40...

[Gym Beglin]

 

I just don't get how Chelsea have not been pulled up over their approach to loans - they are basically improving the teams in the lower half of the league, knowing they will be weakened when they play them? 

 

Look at Loftus-Cheek - Chelsea will no doubt offer him a £4m a year contract when his current deal runs out - he will take it because it is £4m a year. They will charge a team like Palace £2m a year and get them to pay 50% of his wages - if/when it comes to making a decision on his future they can expect £20m plus. They get to keep a player for no cost, and develop an advantage over other teams without any cost to themselves. 

 

Not one thought would have gone into the development of the player - just a load of talented young players, playing for teams below mid-table earning a shit load and therefore stopping them from moving abroad to better teams. I realise it is essentially up to the player - but these are young kids, who take guidance from agents. 

 

Loftus-Cheek would be better off, running his contract down and signing for a team like PSV, or Benfica and playing at a higher level in terms of technique, trophies (and big games) and European competition. If he proves good enough he can move on and earn more money. 

 

I think there should be some laws to the system;

 

• limit the number of loans per team (or limit the amount of players loaned to premiership)
• limit the percentage of the wage that teams pay - if Chelsea want him to sign then they must be contributing at least 50% of his wage. 
• limit loan fees to £1m (it shouldn't be a revenue stream)
• limit the loaning of players who are older than 23 e.g. one year max. 

 

 

 

Agree, but we're in a echo chamber where we all agree the game is in need of massive reforms, and yet there's no appetite from anyone who matters to change it. 

 

When you go onto wikipedia pages for Chelsea, you see two sets of squads of senior players.  It seems oddly considered that having a set of another 20 adults on their books is normal, but we shouldn't count them in their 'real squad', because......?  er.....it suits you to forget that?

 

There's a section called 'other players under contract', in addition to the 'loans' and 'first team'.

 

Chelsea have 33 players out on loan, that's in addition to the four 'other' players, and Baba Rahman who just hangs around.

 

 

City aren't quite so bad, but at the same time they spent over £10m on a lad this summer you've never heard of because he's 19 on gone straight out on loan to Girona. 

 

Man City have also got a 16 year old out on loan to Red Star, and a 27 year old Australian midfielder you've never heard of, and another 25 year old Aussie, and a 24 year old Nigerian called 'Larry' who they signed this summer and then went straight out on loan.

[Lee909]

And thats how you get round FFP

So nothing will be done. Lets UEFA/FA prentend they give a shit with faur play while taking backhanders and holidays from Oil/Assest strippers

[FanchesterCity]

It's also how clubs try to make money too, because there are ever growing demands on clubs to commercial.

Clubs are no longer sporting institutions, they are entertainment franchises, PR vehicles, investment opportunities, or playthings etc.

 

This didn't start with Chelsea, it started long before that. Old Trafford was a rich man's folly before the war and the result of serious financial clout back then. That's not a dig at United, they simply raked money in long before most others did.

 

Some clubs benefitted from the lottery of good ownership, and some fell foul of poor owners. Most had a mixed experience over the years.

 

The PL and CL were the result of clubs already setting their sights on spreadsheets as much as sport. Thereafter, it became a money making machine out of control with far too many enjoying the financial benefits and power to want to change it. Those who would like to change it no longer have much power to do so.

 

If we all really loved the sport, we would just support a nice little local team and enjoy it for what it is. But the reality is, the vast majority of us have bought into the reflected glory of our teams winning trophies and of arguing about who has the biggest fan base or best shirt deal. We are partly to blame for it all... for subscribing to Sky and paying stupid prices to go to the game and paying 60 quid for shirt like a bunch of lemmings.

[FanchesterCity]

It's also how clubs try to make money too, because there are ever growing demands on clubs to commercial.

Clubs are no longer sporting institutions, they are entertainment franchises, PR vehicles, investment opportunities, or playthings etc.

 

This didn't start with Chelsea, it started long before that. Old Trafford was a rich man's folly before the war and the result of serious financial clout back then. That's not a dig at United, they simply raked money in long before most others did.

 

Some clubs benefitted from the lottery of good ownership, and some fell foul of poor owners. Most had a mixed experience over the years.

 

The PL and CL were the result of clubs already setting their sights on spreadsheets as much as sport. Thereafter, it became a money making machine out of control with far too many enjoying the financial benefits and power to want to change it. Those who would like to change it no longer have much power to do so.

 

If we all really loved the sport, we would just support a nice little local team and enjoy it for what it is. But the reality is, the vast majority of us have bought into the reflected glory of our teams winning trophies and of arguing about who has the biggest fan base or best shirt deal. We are partly to blame for it all... for subscribing to Sky and paying stupid prices to go to the game and paying 60 quid for shirt like a bunch of lemmings.

[magicrat]

 

If we all really loved the sport, we would just support a nice little local team and enjoy it for what it is. But the reality is, the vast majority of us have bought into the reflected glory of our teams winning trophies and of arguing about who has the biggest fan base or best shirt deal. We are partly to blame for it all... for subscribing to Sky and paying stupid prices to go to the game and paying 60 quid for shirt like a bunch of lemmings.

 

Some valid points but I don't feel as though I have bought into the reflected glory of moneyball, In fact I am exploited like the rest and I am pretty fucking angry about it to be honest. None of the trophies have a fraction of the value they had in the past. Most money gets the trophy in effect and your lot will win the league this year as a result . Before that it was Chelsea and United,  There is nothing to be gained by years of hard graft building a successful team. It can never happen that way now because the best players fuck off and can't be replaced unless you're one of the lottery winning clubs .     

[Chip Butty]

Fenella scores to put Leicester 1 up

[Elite]

Maureen has 5 at the back here against Watford.

[magicrat]

Maureen has 5 at the back here against Watford.

Going for the win then

[Chip Butty]

Maureen has 5 at the back here against Watford.

 

Quite cavalier that for the Portuguese man of bore