The New Star Wars Films

[Numero Veinticinco]

So Disney paid most of the reviewers? I mean, I could kind of see new media like Youtube reviewers being swayed by Disney but old media like broadsheet journos all over the world? C'mon.

And all with nobody blowing the whistle. People, left and right, old media and new, credible journos and not, all saying the same thing but not getting the money and fame from blowing the whistle. It's quite a miracle.

 

I guess there's another option, no matter how unlikely... they liked the film?

[Lurtz]

I haven't read the man in the street reviews, no, but I've read Will Gompertz and his colleagues, who are a touch more eloquent and descriptive in even their harshest critiques than "unmitigated shit" type comments from the man in the street and some of the experts on here. It's not the perfect movie but I and, from what I can gather, the vast majority of professional reviewers enjoyed it immensely.

 

I'm more inclined to go with Gompertz' and my own impressions of Johnson's work than a bloke on a sports forum calling him a "shit cunt".

[Numero Veinticinco]

Star Wars is a different level to those films you mention.

Not to Marvel it isn't. Marvel is the biggest film franchise, grossing almost twice that of Star Wars franchise. Even when you talk about average per film, it's still more. Star Wars is huge, with some of their newest films out selling Marvel, but it certainly stands to reason that if they'll do it for Star Wars, they'd do it for Marvel films. Which they don't, obviously; one slip and their reputation would be in the gutter.

[Lee909]

The issue these days is everyone wants to be a critic and everyone goes looking for issues.

[Red74]

Not to Marvel it isn't. Marvel is the biggest film franchise, grossing almost twice that of Star Wars franchise. Even when you talk about average per film, it's still more. Star Wars is huge, with some of their newest films out selling Marvel, but it certainly stands to reason that if they'll do it for Star Wars, they'd do it for Marvel films. Which they don't, obviously; one slip and their reputation would be in the gutter.

How many of those marvel films are actually any good though? It’s the same movie churned out over and over year on year with just the names changed. Christ, those transformers movies make incredible money yet everyone of them are unwatchable.

[RedKnight]

How many of those marvel films are actually any good though? It’s the same movie churned out over and over year on year with just the names changed. Christ, those transformers movies make incredible money yet everyone of them are unwatchable.

 

Most of them. You could argue they all occupy the same narrow spectrum between okay and really good, and that makes them a little bland and safe, but they're all watchable. How easy is that to do? Ask DC.

 

As for the Transformers movies, the box office was almost $400m down on the latest installment and I would bet their expanded universe movies fail.

[Boss]

I dunno, why would they do that? They never bothered with any Marvel, Pixar and Pirate of the Caribbean movies, and the Good Dinosaur, Cars 3 and most of the Pirate movies are not good.

 

I really think a lot of the bad reaction is a result of the film not being what people were expecting in terms of plot and story direction.

 

Why wouldn't they? They've got a lot to gain from a high average score on places like Imdb and Rotten Tomatos. More people will go see the movie if the reviews are favourable. 

 

What makes you think they haven't done it for the Pirates of the Caribbean and all the other films you've mentioned? The original Pirates of the Caribbean was crap and it reviewed at about 8/10 everywhere. I might just be a cynical bastard but i don't trust any of these sites. Rotten Tomatos are owned by Comcast. Comcast has lucrative deals with the Star Wars franchise. If Star Wars does well, they do well.

[RedKnight]

Why wouldn't they? They've got a lot to gain from a high average score on places like Imdb and Rotten Tomatos. More people will go see the movie if the reviews are favourable. 

 

What makes you think they hadn't done it for the Pirates of the Caribbean and all the other films you've mentioned? The original Pirates of the Caribbean was crap and it reviewed at about 8/10 everywhere. I might just be a cynical bastard but i don't trust any of these sites. Rotten Tomatos are owned by Comcast. Comcast has lucrative deals with the Star Wars franchise. If Star Wars does well, they do well.

 

It would be one of the biggest scandals in film if Disney were artificially manufacturing reviews for over 14 years. David Manning can't review them all.

[Numero Veinticinco]

How many of those marvel films are actually any good though?

Two things here. First, what does that have to do with your original point? Second, I think the Marvel Films are pretty much universally decent. Some are very good, like the first Iron Man, Guardians of the Galaxy, Captain America, and the Avengers, and a couple aren't, like Ant Man. I'd say they have a better hit-rate than Star Wars. The problem with Star Wars is that there's a load of grown-up children reviewing films who want them to make them feel like they did when they watched them as a 13 year old. It's not happening. The originals are great films when you remove nostalgia, the prequels are horrendous, and the new ones are decent but safe.

[Lee909]

People are acting like if there was some bad reviews the cinema wouldn't still be packed. Batman vs Superman was generally slated yet still made 875ml at the box office.

 

People are going to watch Star Wars as its a big release whatever the millions of wannabe critics have to say.

[Boss]

It would be one of the biggest scandals in film if Disney were artificially manufacturing reviews for over 14 years. David Manning can't review them all.

 

Why would it be a scandal? I thought it was just common knowledge. Go on Rotten Tomatoes and look at the 5 star reviews and try and click on some of the avatars and see for yourself. 

[Babb'sBurstNad]

All I know is the biggest Star Wars fans I know are saying it's a bit turd with a few good bits in.

[RedKnight]

Why would it be a scandal? I thought it was just common knowledge. Go on Rotten Tomatoes and look at the 5 star reviews and try and click on some of the avatars and see for yourself. 

 

Well hang on, are you complaining about where Rotten Tomatoes aggregates its reviews or are you suggesting that well known film critics are doing what Disney asked?

 

It's all a bit conspiracy theory for me. I still contend people don't like it because it didn't follow the usual Star Wars narrative; even though a character literally says "let the past die" in it, signposting how the movie will go. It's not perfect, the Last Jedi isn't a hill I'm prepared to die on before seeing it again, but I found it an enjoyable movie with a good emotional core that was slightly too long. How kindly time will look on it is anyone's guess but as someone who loves Star Wars more than any other film series, I found more to like than dislike.

[Dicko]

I haven't read the man in the street reviews, no, but I've read Will Gompertz and his colleagues, who are a touch more eloquent and descriptive in even their harshest critiques than "unmitigated shit" type comments from the man in the street and some of the experts on here. It's not the perfect movie but I and, from what I can gather, the vast majority of professional reviewers enjoyed it immensely.

 

I'm more inclined to go with Gompertz' and my own impressions of Johnson's work than a bloke on a sports forum calling him a "shit cunt".

Then go with Gompertz then whoever he is, I'll go with my own impression that it was unmitigated shite.

[Pureblood]

You should probably all wait until I've watched it and then I'll let you know whether it's good or bad.

[Hades]

Two things here. First, what does that have to do with your original point? Second, I think the Marvel Films are pretty much universally decent. Some are very good, like the first Iron Man, Guardians of the Galaxy, Captain America, and the Avengers, and a couple aren't, like Ant Man. I'd say they have a better hit-rate than Star Wars. The problem with Star Wars is that there's a load of grown-up children reviewing films who want them to make them feel like they did when they watched them as a 13 year old. It's not happening. The originals are great films when you remove nostalgia, the prequels are horrendous, and the new ones are decent but safe.

You're damning with faint praise here. These aren't made for the people that grew up with original Star Wars and want to explore the depth and wonder of the universe in its fullness.

[Boss]

Well hang on, are you complaining about where Rotten Tomatoes aggregates its reviews or are you suggesting that well known film critics are doing what Disney asked?

 

It's all a bit conspiracy theory for me. I still contend people don't like it because it didn't follow the usual Star Wars narrative; even though a character literally says "let the past die" in it, signposting how the movie will go. It's not perfect, the Last Jedi isn't a hill I'm prepared to die on before seeing it again, but I found it an enjoyable movie with a good emotional core that was slightly too long. How kindly time will look on it is anyone's guess but as someone who loves Star Wars more than any other film series, I found more to like than dislike.

 

Click on the user reviews and you'll find 5 star reviews submitted by people that have 1 review on the site. Short 5 star reviews with no prior rating and accounts set up the day they review Star Wars. Does that not set alarm bells ringing?

[Brownie]

It is weird how on IMDB it’s rated 8 but when you click into the reviews you just see loads of ratings below 5. You have to scroll and scroll to find anything remotely positive.

[RedKnight]

Click on the user reviews and you'll find 5 star reviews submitted by people that have 1 review on the site. Short 5 star reviews with no prior rating and accounts set up the day they review Star Wars. Does that not set alarm bells ringing?

 

Not really because I've never paid any mind to review aggregate sites. That isn't me trying to be contrary, I just never look at them. I dunno, I'm fine with people not liking it, I disagree with them and will happily debate it but it doesn't bother me. Some people on comment sections do seem genuinely bothered that the reviews don't match their own (even here we're having a debate about 'fake' reviews), which is baffling because what does it matter?

[Special K]

I hate this "It wasn't made for you, you're too old" bullshit.

 

A bad film is a bad film. This is a bad film full of plotholes, terrible writing

and tossed away story.

[ZonkoVille77]

Just watched it in IMAX 3d. It's well shot. But...

Disney have made a fucking mess of the story and this has totally ruined it.

 

- still no idea who the fuck Snoke is/came from

- where's the Knights of Ren that were mentioned in TFA

- still no idea how Maz got Luke's lightsaber, and then it being so unimportant to Luke that Luke chucks it behind him.

- Phasma? What's the point?

- Del Toro character was shite. Actually the whole idea of leaving the scene of entrapment to go to some space Monte Carlo on the off chance they could get a hacker to help, who didn't in the end, was fucking nonsense.

- Yoda scene was cack. Basically still telling Luke off for looking to the future. But I thought Luke was now a Jedi Master? Clearly not judging by this scene.

 

Rey, Kylo and Poe are the films saving grace. Luke too except the Yoda scene.

 

Overall it's just bollocks. Better than TFA, but still bollocks.

[Ian Sea]

Just watched it in IMAX 3d. It's well shot. But...

Disney have made a fucking mess of the story and this has totally ruined it.

 

- still no idea who the fuck Snoke is/came from

- where's the Knights of Ren that were mentioned in TFA

- still no idea how Maz got Luke's lightsaber, and then it being so unimportant to Luke that Luke chucks it behind him.

- Phasma? What's the point?

- Del Toro character was shite. Actually the whole idea of leaving the scene of entrapment to go to some space Monte Carlo on the off chance they could get a hacker to help, who didn't in the end, was fucking nonsense.

- Yoda scene was cack. Basically still telling Luke off for looking to the future. But I thought Luke was now a Jedi Master? Clearly not judging by this scene.

 

Rey, Kylo and Poe are the films saving grace. Luke too except the Yoda scene.

 

Overall it's just bollocks. Better than TFA, but still bollocks.

Pretty much agree with all of that.

 

I liked TFA to a point but always said the follow up would make or break it. Unfortunately for me it has broken it. The 2 main aspects of TFA were finding Luke and the First Order usurping the New Republic. The Last Jedi made no reference to the map to Luke or why he hid it. This is particularly strange when he refuses to leave Ahch-To; why did he leave a map in the first place if he has no intention of coming back?! It's also ridiculous that Luke hides on Ahch-To if he's renounced the Jedi religion, surely this is the last place he'd be. They should have had him on Tatooine.

 

Neither of the new films make me care about the New Republic as all we saw of it was a shot of some people we didn't know on a balcony in TFA. Now we don't see the First Order ruling or taking over planets, they're too arsed chasing a few hundred rebels. Sure, show that but we need to see the bigger picture too.

 

All the stuff about Jedi texts is nonsense too. You can't introduce that 8 films into a series and expect people to care. Especially when we've seen the Jedi Archives already. This is up there with midichlorians for me. Unnecessary bullshit and completely not what the force is about.

 

Luke thinking about killing his nephew doesn't sit well, given what he goes through in the original films this is the last thing he'd do. Finn (who I think is a great character played by a superb actor) is wasted as well and it feels like he has nothing to do. His little trip to find the code breaker is massively forced. The DJ character has promise but I don't like how he was played.

 

Overall massively disappointing despite Rey, Kylo and Rose being great.

[Ian Sea]

Oh, and not showing Rey escape after her confrontation with Kylo is just stupid. It felt like it had been missed out by mistake.

[Guest Alex_K]

No way was BDT the codebreaker they were looking for. Found his character one of the very few intriguing elements. Chilling in a prison he could leave whenever he wants. 100% expect the stuttering to be an act & far more to him than has been revealed.

[Tony Moanero]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I can't fathom why grown adults are overanalysing Star Wars, which are essentially kids/family films. I'm a big fan of the original films, but they are what they are.