Tory Country

[dennis tooth]

 

I take it you'll be voting for AV tomorrow?

 

Av is a load of shite NV, it needs to be firmly rejected and nuked, it's an insult of a compromise that will lead to more coalitions and the propping up of the same old powers who are rapidly losing the support of the public, it's just another bail out!

[VladimirIlyich]

The people about my age, who I know who vote Tory; do so for purely selfish reasons. It's all about keeping what they've got, what others get or have.

 

It's usually the better off, real pull the ladder up shit.

 

But how are they better off? Unless they are very wealthy the tories offer nothing for anybody but people of their ilk and thats only a small minority at the top of the pile.

Landed and titled aristocrats,senior businessmen,stockbrokers etc,while almost everybody else lives under the threat of redundacy,being a victim of violent crime and being royally screwed by the utility companies as well as not being wealthy enough to pay for health care so having to rely on a crumbling NHS.

 

Baffles me,it really does.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Hmn. Not wasting my time with that, thanks all the same. I don't mind arguing with SD, or similar, who actually have a brain in there head. That shit... not arsed.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Av is a load of shite NV

 

Agree.

 

it needs to be firmly rejected and nuked

 

Disagree.

 

it's an insult of a compromise that will lead to more coalitions and the propping up of the same old powers who are rapidly losing the support of the public, it's just another bail out!

 

But FPTP really does prop-up old powers, 'nis. If it's a choice between eating shit and eating mud, I'm going to eat the mud.

[VladimirIlyich]

Hmn. Not wasting my time with that, thanks all the same. I don't mind arguing with SD, or similar, who actually have a brain in there head. That shit... not arsed.

 

Who's that aimed at mate?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Check back a page, mate. You'll soon see! It's the post with mentalism all over it.

[MOGLET]

Hmn. Not wasting my time with that, thanks all the same. I don't mind arguing with SD, or similar, who actually have a brain in there head. That shit... not arsed.

 

 

Yup, reality does tend to stop people debating when they think they know it all, but in fact know fuck all.

 

That shit? not at all, try living down south where the labour government tested their ideas out.

[RJ Fan club]

 

But how are they better off? Unless they are very wealthy the tories offer nothing for anybody but people of their ilk and thats only a small minority at the top of the pile.

Landed and titled aristocrats,senior businessmen,stockbrokers etc,while almost everybody else lives under the threat of redundacy,being a victim of violent crime and being royally screwed by the utility companies as well as not being wealthy enough to pay for health care so having to rely on a crumbling NHS.

 

Baffles me,it really does.

 

Not wealthy no, comfortable I'd say. But I also think its to do with thinking/wishing they will be wealthy, without realising its a pipe dream and less than 1% of people ever will be. Baffling, for sure.

 

It's selfishness, they want to see cuts, rather than pay a bit more tax. They could all afford to pay more tax, but they'd rather see someone go without. They acknowledge those that caused the fucking deficit could pay, but the swallow the inheritance tax/competitive/scrounger shit, hook, line and sinker.

[VladimirIlyich]

Yup, reality does tend to stop people debating when they think they know it all, but in fact know fuck all.

 

That shit? not at all, try living down south where the labour government tested their ideas out.

 

Maybe you can elaborate on their 'ideas?'

 

We suffered under stuff like 'the minimum wage' and 'big cuts in hospital waiting lists' and 'more money for schools,as well as more of our class of kids got university education,shocking it was.

[MOGLET]

Just out of morbid curiosity, who or what caused the last recession if it wasnt the last government? go on humour me.

[dennis tooth]

But FPTP really does prop-up old powers, 'nis. If it's a choice between eating shit and eating mud, I'm going to eat the mud.

 

I'd rather not fight at all than fight with my hand tied behind my back. Personally, I'd rather reject that offer and demand better than have a plaster placed over a broken leg and then for people to claim I should be able to walk fine. If that means continuing to eat a shit sandwich for a bit longer then I will do so or rather go on hunger strike and die or win.

[VladimirIlyich]

Just out of morbid curiosity, who or what caused the last recession if it wasnt the last government? go on humour me.

 

It was a WORLD recession,not just a british one.

[MOGLET]

Maybe you can elaborate on their 'ideas?'

 

We suffered under stuff like 'the minimum wage' and 'big cuts in hospital waiting lists' and 'more money for schools,as well as more of our class of kids got university education,shocking it was.

 

 

I assume Jmc, you wish for me to elaborate on the all singing all dancing multiculteral let them all in regardless Britain?

 

Not sure what its like where you live, but I can assure you, down here in the first port of call counties, its gone beyond a slight influx.

 

I wont give figures, about the crime rates or the dole lists, that im sure the likes of NU will suddenly find some quango made up figure to post, but from first hand experience of reality "Theres that word again" reality, the ideal the last government set into motion, isnt quite what the world gets to see on its made up lists.

 

But then, I dont have links to those sort of lists, so im obviously talking shite and have no brain.

 

Welcome to Kent, the shithole of England, where anyone can sign on and commit crime without fear of being sent home.

 

Oh dear, I must be a racist bigot too.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Yup, reality does tend to stop people debating when they think they know it all, but in fact know fuck all.

 

I've stopped arguing against your points (almost immediately) because you're considerably below the level of person I spend time talking to about politics, and not because of some strange sense of reality where the Government of the United Kingdom caused the recession.

 

That shit? not at all, try living down south where the labour government tested their ideas out.

 

I'll get right on that.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Numero Veinticinco

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I'd rather not fight at all than fight with my hand tied behind my back. Personally, I'd rather reject that offer and demand better than have a plaster placed over a broken leg and then for people to claim I should be able to walk fine. If that means continuing to eat a shit sandwich for a bit longer then I will do so or rather go on hunger strike and die or win.

 

Ach, you're a sterner man that I, Dennis. Sticking to your ideals is laudable, but if you never reach them then you're just living by somebody else's standard. I take your point though.

[MOGLET]

I've stopped arguing against your points (almost immediately) because you're considerably below the level of person I spent time talking to, not because of some strange sense of reality where the Government of the United Kingdom caused the recession.

 

 

 

I'll get right on that.

 

 

So do tell, what caused the recession in the UK? the cost of housing in china? the fall of the exchange rate in Nepal? the loss of the wheat crop in Rio?

 

What do you consider in your huge not shit talking brain, caused the UK recession?

 

And while we are at it, what do you think was the best part of bailing out the UK banks by the last government?

 

 

Go on, you know you want to.

[Alan Sex]

We just voted in a Tory majority here in Canada. Oh well, at least they'll keep promoting the oilsands and keep Alberta rich.

 

Then again, we have more elections than a horny Chinese man.

[VladimirIlyich]

I assume Jmc, you wish for me to elaborate on the all singing all dancing multiculteral let them all in regardless Britain?

 

Not sure what its like where you live, but I can assure you, down here in the first port of call counties, its gone beyond a slight influx.

 

I wont give figures, about the crime rates or the dole lists, that im sure the likes of NU will suddenly find some quango made up figure to post, but from first hand experience of reality "Theres that word again" reality, the ideal the last government set into motion, isnt quite what the world gets to see on its made up lists.

 

But then, I dont have links to those sort of lists, so im obviously talking shite and have no brain.

 

Welcome to Kent, the shithole of England, where anyone can sign on and commit crime without fear of being sent home.

 

Oh dear, I must be a racist bigot too.

 

I live up here in the North West,Merseyside area.

 

You seem to base everything on your opinions and dont provide information to back up those opinions,there were immigrants coming in under past governments too.

Maybe if we hadnt have got involved in breaking up the Soviet Union and meddling in the Balkans then there wouldnt be millions of disenfranchised people wandering around europe with no country to belong to as it doesnt exist any more.

 

I dont know what all these immigrants have got to do with the labour government particularly and not every government of the past 20 years though.

 

I didnt say you were a racist bigot as I'm sure its not much fun as I've seen some of the news footage from the likes of Dover and Folkestone but imagine if we 'oop north kicked all our immigrants out then we wouldnt be called 'scousers' as its based on the fact that we have families of so many different cultures and creeds,as you well know.

[Strontium]

Just out of morbid curiosity, who or what caused the last recession if it wasnt the last government? go on humour me.

 

 

They didn't cause it, they just didn't prepare us very well for it, despite years of warnings. Gordon Brown memorably accused Vince Cable (in 2003!) of scaremongering about the housing bubble. I think Brown actually believed we were recession proof (as his "no more boom and bust" comment would suggest).

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Jmc, seriously, he's a goner.

[Guest San Don]

Just out of morbid curiosity, who or what caused the last recession if it wasnt the last government? go on humour me.

 

The financial recession wasnt purely down to the last Government or even by a large part contributing to it. To blame them is clearly misunderstanding the issue.

 

The financial recession, which hit us all, was by and large caused by the financial markets greed and belief that their house of cards would never collapse.

 

Financial speculation on a global scale resulted in banks, investors and speculators lending and borrowing money like there was no tomorrow. When one link in the chain broke, the whole thing collapsed.

 

I fail to see how anyone with the slightest insight into the situation can say it was the fault of the Government when the crisis hit just about every major (and minor) contry in the World.

 

I find it a little laughable that people of a right wing or capitalist opinion claim our Government did not do enough to stop the banks lending yet in the next breath claim the free market should determine who lends what to whom and how much.

 

One error the last Government did make is they havent made the banks, bankers and speculators pay every single penny they needed from the government to cover their arses, back with interest. The American Government to its credit did and is making them pay it back with interest.

[dennis tooth]

Ach, you're a sterner man that I, Dennis. Sticking to your ideals is laudable, but if you never reach them then you're just living by somebody else's standard. I take your point though.

 

I know, these aren't 'ideals' to me though, they are just basic things I would require to take anything like this serious. Maybe things will never get to that level, who knows?

I don't take the AV thing serious at all and dont see the population taking it that serious either, I think it will be a frigging miracle if they manage to get it passed into existence anyway with the 2 fish and 5 loaves Nick Clegg brought to the party. I think it will lead to more unaccountable coalitions that are less inclined to even pretend to stick by their promises pre election, does this not worry you?

I don't see how that is a surefire improvement, the system is not designed and people are barely informed enough to makes sense of the implications of it, which will lead you along the garden path to exactly where you say I am really except it is to nobody's standard, you just get a mangled incoherent tower of babel, very similar to the one we have now except even more so.

I don't think it makes me sterner, theres more that one way to skin a cat of course, nearly any of mankinds breakthroughs were by accident but its the trying that counts, one of these buttons will power the damn thing we call democracy. Feel free to mash away with your palm.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

They didn't cause it, they just didn't prepare us very well for it, despite years of warnings. Gordon Brown memorably accused Vince Cable (in 2003!) of scaremongering about the housing bubble. I think Brown actually believed we were recession proof (as his "no more boom and bust" comment would suggest).

 

I think he probably thought we were recession-proof in a insular sort of way. I don't think it's fair to say that there were years of warning, at least not in a global sense. I remember him on Question Time admitting about lack of warning of the global aspect of the recession.

 

We were all talking about the same things at the time, with only a few people with enough foresight to predict these things - stiglitz et al., the same guys saying that the fix implemented by the coalition is wrong. His no more boom and bust was in 1997, I don't think he felt like that for two long.

 

As I've said before, they - Labour - were not totally blameless, but it's easy to want to fight the factual corner when faced with this 'they cause the recession' stuff.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I know, these aren't 'ideals' to me though, they are just basic things I would require to take anything like this serious. Maybe things will never get to that level, who knows?

I don't take the AV thing serious at all and dont see the population taking it that serious either, I think it will be a frigging miracle if they manage to get it passed into existence anyway with the 2 fish and 5 loaves Nick Clegg brought to the party. I think it will lead to more unaccountable coalitions that are less inclined to even pretend to stick by their promises pre election, does this not worry you?

I don't see how that is a surefire improvement, the system is not designed and people are barely informed enough to makes sense of the implications of it, which will lead you along the garden path to exactly where you say I am really except it is to nobody's standard, you just get a mangled incoherent tower of babel, very similar to the one we have now except even more so.

I don't think it makes me sterner, theres more that one way to skin a cat of course, nearly any of mankinds breakthroughs were by accident but its the trying that counts, one of these buttons will power the damn thing we call democracy. Feel free to mash away with your palm.

 

Yeah, it does worry me. But we need to remember that no party really seems to give a fuck about its pledges anyway. It's not like they're going to start giving a bollocks because they're in full control. I think the Conservatives might well have been even less faithful to their manifesto had they been in sole power.

[MOGLET]

The financial recession wasnt purely down to the last Government or even by a large part contributing to it. To blame them is clearly misunderstanding the issue.

 

The financial recession, which hit us all, was by and large caused by the financial markets greed and belief that their house of cards would never collapse.

 

Financial speculation on a global scale resulted in banks, investors and speculators lending and borrowing money like there was no tomorrow. When one link in the chain broke, the whole thing collapsed.

 

I fail to see how anyone with the slightest insight into the situation can say it was the fault of the Government when the crisis hit just about every major (and minor) contry in the World.

 

I find it a little laughable that people of a right wing or capitalist opinion claim our Government did not do enough to stop the banks lending yet in the next breath claim the free market should determine who lends what to whom and how much.

 

One error the last Government did make is they havent made the banks, bankers and speculators pay every single penny they needed from the government to cover their arses, back with interest. The American Government to its credit did and is making them pay it back with interest.

 

Apologies SD, I neglected to add, "The UK" as I had in the previous reply.

 

And given this thread is about the UK....anyway.

 

I am fully aware it was a worldwide, if not partial worldwide recession, allbeit mainly the first world countries that were affected.

The point being, the government of this country, be it through neglect failure or whatever you wish to call it, could have, given its power, done more to either stop it hitting as it did, or indeed lowered the effect of the "WW recession" on this country, through its governance of the banking houses under its control.

 

The fact that the banks were able to continue as they did, is as much a hit at their power, as it is at the power the government failed to wield when it could have.

 

So by rights, the people who could have helped avoid it, (be it in a better way than it was) are the very same who allowed it.

 

Do not take me digging at the last government as an anti Labour dig, I would say the same regardless who was in, in this case it happened to be them.