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Quite a few on here lean left like myself, but it's easy to forget we're very much a minority here in England. Just watched something about the local elections and the Tories have got roughly twice the councils and twice the councillors of Labour.

 

It's also wroth noting that the Tories ruled through some of the toughest years in our lifetime and yet were only ousted by a Labour Government which could best be described as 'Tory light'. Worrying shit.

 

UK-Political-Map1.jpg

 

 

"My boy, we are pilgrims in an unholy land."

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I do often wonder if, because of the time I spend on here(a forum that was described by one senior state-department official as "a hotbed of extremism"), I've got a false impression of the country's political stance.

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I do often wonder if, because of the time I spend on here(a forum that was described by one senior state-department official as "a hotbed of extremism"), I've got a false impression of the country's political stance.

 

It depends what circles you mix in too I think. I'd say of all the people I know my age, I'd say only one is anything approaching politically minded and 'leans' left. I'd say four-five, pretty much all working class (but a couple have rich dads, a GP, senior copper etc) are tacit Tories and have dumbly swallowed the spiel about debt, Labour's mess, scroungers etc. The rest don't care - I'd say roughly a dozen-20 fill that bracket.

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Guest Numero Veinticinco
Quite a few on here lean left like myself, but it's easy to forget we're very much a minority here in England. Just watched something about the local elections and the Tories have got roughly twice the councils and twice the councillors of Labour.

 

It's also wroth noting that the Tories ruled through some of the toughest years in our lifetime and yet were only ousted by a Labour Government which could best be described as 'Tory light'. Worrying shit.

 

UK-Political-Map1.jpg

 

 

"My boy, we are pilgrims in an unholy land."

 

Not sure I agree, mate. When Cons. are getting voted in with 36% it's not a great advert for a our 'right-wingness'. I'd say that we're mostly left-wing, but we're a bunch of disorganised cunts who stick with our ideology.

 

We'd sooner fight each other about AV not being as good as AV+ or proper PR, then the Tories laugh their bollocks all the way to FPTP.

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Not sure I agree, mate. When Cons. are getting voted in with 36% it's not a great advert for a our 'right-wingness'. I'd say that we're mostly left-wing, but we're a bunch of disorganised cunts who stick with our ideology.

 

We'd sooner fight each other about AV not being as good as AV+ or proper PR, then the Tories laugh their bollocks all the way to FPTP.

 

How would you explain the fact 'old' Labour was not palatable enough to win election though NV? They essentially had to remodel themselves as friends of business and the middle class to get a sniff of power, they had to woo the right wing press and employ a vast spin machine.

 

It's frankly amazing that, even in the aftermath of the destruction wrought by the credit crunch - as bailed out banks handed out bonuses with one hand and axed thousands of jobs with the other - all people gave a fuck about were their BHS dandelion wall prints.

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It depends what circles you mix in too I think. I'd say of all the people I know my age, I'd say only one is anything approaching politically minded and 'leans' left. I'd say four-five, pretty much all working class (but a couple have rich dads, a GP, senior copper etc) are tacit Tories and have dumbly swallowed the spiel about debt, Labour's mess, scroungers etc. The rest don't care - I'd say roughly a dozen-20 fill that bracket.

 

The right control the message. It's even worse in the USA - You move away from the east coast and really, other than maybe Chicago, Illinois, you've then got to go all the way to the big cities in California to find somewhere where the consensus leans very solidly left in a way which effects the state in general.

 

The right are simply better at controlling the message - money helps, of course, but they have managed to zombify people into believing without question that a person strongly voicing leftist views is a mad, barely sane ultra-socialist whereas dogmatic rightists like Shameron are mainstream centrists.

 

They tragic thing is that they've won, because the people portrayed as ranting lefties are now at most centrists, whereas the right is allowed to creep further so. Look at the allegedly marxist Obama they've dreamt up, very successfully to a large percentage of people. Look at how they've managed to recast New Labour as a wild, out of control socialist enterprise.

 

They move further and further toward their promised land because they control the message and by extension the ignorant masses. As a result, the parties formerly of the left have no choice but to be left of the NEW centre as established by the conservatives and their offshoots, or face never, ever being electable.

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I live in a very green area, the only reason i voted for Plaid was to ensure conservatives didn't get the seat. I've not got a clue how i'm voting tomorrow, let alone i've i'm going with a yes or no vote.

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The right control the message. It's even worse in the USA - You move away from the east coast and really, other than maybe Chicago, Illinois, you've then got to go all the way to the big cities in California to find somewhere where the consensus leans very solidly left in a way which effects the state in general.

 

The right are simply better at controlling the message - money helps, of course, but they have managed to zombify people into believing without question that a person strongly voicing leftist views is a mad, barely sane ultra-socialist whereas dogmatic rightists like Shameron are mainstream centrists.

 

They tragic thing is that they've won, because the people portrayed as ranting lefties are now at most centrists, whereas the right is allowed to creep further so. Look at the allegedly marxist Obama they've dreamt up, very successfully to a large percentage of people. Look at how they've managed to recast New Labour as a wild, out of control socialist enterprise.

 

They move further and further toward their promised land because they control the message and by extension the ignorant masses. As a result, the parties formerly of the left have no choice but to be left of the NEW centre as established by the conservatives and their offshoots, or face never, ever being electable.

 

Good points. You just have to look at the papers the day after "Red Ed" was elected leader of the Labour party. Genuine hysteria.

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Guest Numero Veinticinco
How would you explain the fact 'old' Labour was not palatable enough to win election though NV? They essentially had to remodel themselves as friends of business and the middle class to get a sniff of power, they had to woo the right wing press and employ a vast spin machine.

 

It's frankly amazing that, even in the aftermath of the destruction wrought by the credit crunch - as bailed out banks handed out bonuses with one hand and axed thousands of jobs with the other - all people gave a fuck about were their BHS dandelion wall prints.

 

Mainly because we don't live in a proper democracy, to be honest. Power and interests have such a massive influence over who gets into Downing St. In the main, people aren't interested, but if you drill down into what they believe - before it has been twisted - then I think you'll find that a lot of people have, despite them not knowing it, left-wing views.

 

They did have to woo the press, simply because they have such a massive influence over who gets into power. I think that's changing, and will change more rapidly.

 

Not that there's not a Tory base right throughout England, there is. A lot of it is people voting against their own interests.

 

We can't also forget that Tories had 13 years out of power and only got back in via a coalition, even after the biggest selling newspapers backed them and the world's economy fell on its arse. Even then they couldn't scrape a majority of seats.

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I find most people lean to the left, it's the large amount of apathy and lack of educated people between that give a false picture. The further left you are the less likely you are to vote in my opinion becuase you conclude its all a sham anyway.

Those votes that were counted were about 40% of possible voters so again underlines what I am saying.

Also the Tory PR is good and when you look at the media, the right is overrepresented, basically the misinformation system is well oiled. Then you have a load of disenfranchised voters due to Labour acting all tory and bailing out banks and shit, the Brown factor and Milliband factors aren't helping. Labour are centrist these days so real lefties don't all vote for them if at all.

Edited by dennis tooth

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Guest Numero Veinticinco
I know jack shit about politics but they must be doing something right (no pun intended) to have so much success.

 

Labour gains in this tomorrow's local elections are going to be utterly massive and, if we're being honest, they've done very little to deserve it. The Tories have been clever in grabbing power off of the backs of people who shouldn't have voted for them.

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How would you explain the fact 'old' Labour was not palatable enough to win election though NV? They essentially had to remodel themselves as friends of business and the middle class to get a sniff of power, they had to woo the right wing press and employ a vast spin machine.

 

It's frankly amazing that, even in the aftermath of the destruction wrought by the credit crunch - as bailed out banks handed out bonuses with one hand and axed thousands of jobs with the other - all people gave a fuck about were their BHS dandelion wall prints.

 

That was a group within the labour party who decided that old labour wouldn't win. I am not sure that is fact.

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To be fair, and not wanting to take anything from the fact the latest government are screwing us into the floor, but the last government are the ones who caused the last recession, they also bailed out the banks, when the banks are the ones who have fucked the general populus over at every turn, and have also caused the mass influx of so called asylum seeking eastern European inbreds to fill the dole numbers to the max.

 

Add that to the fact that the voting public across the board, only turn out in the 25% to 35% bracket, is it any wonder the country doesnt actually give a shit who runs it?

 

The last the current the next? all of those in power are as good or as bad as the last, all saying things you and I want to hear, yet when they get the chance, they are all as good or bad as the next, and still fuck us all over.

 

 

Vote for me, I will rid the country of lazy cunts who dont want to work, vote for me, I will stop lazy dole scrounging foreigners coming here and living for free, vote for me I will stop out forces being killed to make America rich, vote for me I will create mass employment for the people, where as the truth is, vote for me with the crap I spout now, but once im in, I will sort myself out, and fuck you all.

 

Cunts to a man the lot of them.

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Guest Numero Veinticinco
To be fair, and not wanting to take anything from the fact the latest government are screwing us into the floor, but the last government are the ones who caused the last recession

 

No they not.

 

they also bailed out the banks

 

Is that a criticism?

 

and have also caused the mass influx of so called asylum seeking eastern European inbreds to fill the dole numbers to the max.

 

I don't understand that, mate? In a literal sense. I don't actually know what you mean?

 

Add that to the fact that the voting public across the board, only turn out in the 25% to 35% bracket, is it any wonder the country doesnt actually give a shit who runs it?

 

When you say 'fact' what you actually mean is 'made up statistic that's totally untrue'. here's voter turnout in general elections since 1945. It only dropped below 60% on one occasion.

 

The last the current the next? all of those in power are as good or as bad as the last, all saying things you and I want to hear, yet when they get the chance, they are all as good or bad as the next, and still fuck us all over.

 

Vote for me, I will rid the country of lazy cunts who dont want to work, vote for me, I will stop lazy dole scrounging foreigners coming here and living for free, vote for me I will stop out forces being killed to make America rich, vote for me I will create mass employment for the people, where as the truth is, vote for me with the crap I spout now, but once im in, I will sort myself out, and fuck you all.

 

Cunts to a man the lot of them.

 

Whilst I disagree that they're all as bad as each other, I think you've hit upon a point that has annoyed voters, especially working class voters: politicians are not working hard enough for 'joe the plumber'. It's not geared in the majority's interest.

 

I take it you'll be voting for AV tomorrow?

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The right control the message. It's even worse in the USA - You move away from the east coast and really, other than maybe Chicago, Illinois, you've then got to go all the way to the big cities in California to find somewhere where the consensus leans very solidly left in a way which effects the state in general.

 

The right are simply better at controlling the message - money helps, of course, but they have managed to zombify people into believing without question that a person strongly voicing leftist views is a mad, barely sane ultra-socialist whereas dogmatic rightists like Shameron are mainstream centrists.

 

They tragic thing is that they've won, because the people portrayed as ranting lefties are now at most centrists, whereas the right is allowed to creep further so. Look at the allegedly marxist Obama they've dreamt up, very successfully to a large percentage of people. Look at how they've managed to recast New Labour as a wild, out of control socialist enterprise.

 

They move further and further toward their promised land because they control the message and by extension the ignorant masses. As a result, the parties formerly of the left have no choice but to be left of the NEW centre as established by the conservatives and their offshoots, or face never, ever being electable.

 

This.

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The people about my age, who I know who vote Tory; do so for purely selfish reasons. It's all about keeping what they've got, what others get or have.

 

It's usually the better off, real pull the ladder up shit.

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Guest San Don
Quite a few on here lean left like myself, but it's easy to forget we're very much a minority here in England. Just watched something about the local elections and the Tories have got roughly twice the councils and twice the councillors of Labour.

 

It's also wroth noting that the Tories ruled through some of the toughest years in our lifetime and yet were only ousted by a Labour Government which could best be described as 'Tory light'. Worrying shit.

 

UK-Political-Map1.jpg

 

 

"My boy, we are pilgrims in an unholy land."

 

While I lean to the left myself, people need to realise the political landscape has changed forever in this country. A 'far left' Government will never be returned in a UK election.

 

People are more affluent. Many 'working class' people see themselves as 'middle class' or perhaps more accurately not working class any more.

 

People dont want Government interference in their lives. They dont want to see state handouts to people who cant be arsed to help themselves. And, they want to pay less taxes.

 

All of which is something a far left Government with ideologies of state ownership and a comprehensive welfare state need to fund these things.

 

The 3 main political parties in this country all now vie for the centre ground. I'd far rather have a centre left Labour Government than a far left Labour party that nnever gets into power.

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To be fair, and not wanting to take anything from the fact the latest government are screwing us into the floor, but the last government are the ones who caused the last recession, they also bailed out the banks, when the banks are the ones who have fucked the general populus over at every turn, and have also caused the mass influx of so called asylum seeking eastern European inbreds to fill the dole numbers to the max.

 

Add that to the fact that the voting public across the board, only turn out in the 25% to 35% bracket, is it any wonder the country doesnt actually give a shit who runs it?

 

The last the current the next? all of those in power are as good or as bad as the last, all saying things you and I want to hear, yet when they get the chance, they are all as good or bad as the next, and still fuck us all over.

 

 

Vote for me, I will rid the country of lazy cunts who dont want to work, vote for me, I will stop lazy dole scrounging foreigners coming here and living for free, vote for me I will stop out forces being killed to make America rich, vote for me I will create mass employment for the people, where as the truth is, vote for me with the crap I spout now, but once im in, I will sort myself out, and fuck you all.

 

Cunts to a man the lot of them.

 

[/b]

 

No they not.

 

 

 

Is that a criticism?

 

 

 

I don't understand that, mate? In a literal sense. I don't actually know what you mean?

 

 

 

When you say 'fact' what you actually mean is 'made up statistic that's totally untrue'. here's voter turnout in general elections since 1945. It only dropped below 60% on one occasion.

 

 

 

Whilst I disagree that they're all as bad as each other, I think you've hit upon a point that has annoyed voters, especially working class voters: politicians are not working hard enough for 'joe the plumber'. It's not geared in the majority's interest.

 

I take it you'll be voting for AV tomorrow?

 

 

Yes they did, who else was in charge who caused it? I do hope you arent trying to tell me the opposition caused the recession when they werent in power?

 

Yes. fucking right it is, the banks who rip us off with bollocks charges, lose our pensions and float our money, then claim they cant pay it back to us whose money it is, then get bailed out by a government who are ripping us off with taxes etc etc etc, fucking right im criticising.

 

The labour government allowed mass asylum/immigration with virtually no control, to try and fill their quota of a happy multiculteral fairtrade load of shite, and it failed.

 

Apologies, I meant local election, not general election. my mistake.

 

And no, why should some twat get in just because he got some spare votes from people who didnt vote for him/her?

 

1st past the post, one man one vote, or does democracy not work like that nowadays?

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While I lean to the left myself, people need to realise the political landscape has changed forever in this country. A 'far left' Government will never be returned in a UK election.

 

People are more affluent. Many 'working class' people see themselves as 'middle class' or perhaps more accurately not working class any more.

 

People dont want Government interference in their lives. They dont want to see state handouts to people who cant be arsed to help themselves. And, they want to pay less taxes.

 

All of which is something a far left Government with ideologies of state ownership and a comprehensive welfare state need to fund these things.

 

The 3 main political parties in this country all now vie for the centre ground. I'd far rather have a centre left Labour Government than a far left Labour party that nnever gets into power.

 

I'd vote for San Don

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