Darwin Nunez - Thoughts?

[Code]

11 minutes ago, Elite said:

Fucking hell Code, Salah does make mistakes and you can admit that you know. Doesn't mean you can't have your nightly wank over him.

Salah should have scored, but Nunez had the bigger and more easy chances. 

[Barrington Womble]

30 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

I mean, what's the ultimate goal?

 

If we win the league and he simply ends up being a "good asset", I don't think many will hold it against him. If he's a good asset on a team that ultimately doesn't win a big trophy, that's just not good enough. 

 

He's the guy we bet big on, man. If he's not individually an undeniably great, great player or he doesn't help us win big trophies, there's no point. Fair or not, there's a running narrative on him.

 

There's 2 things for me. The main one is winning and the second is I like to enjoy watching the players who play for us. They don't have to be flash players, as an example Ronnie Whelan was one of my favourite players in Kenny's great side in the 80s. Football is a team game, Nunez is pretty unlikely to single handedly take us to the league. Just like Salah won't either. So if he's contributing and the balance of the side is good, it's fine for me. I enjoy watching Darwin and there's absolutely nothing to suggest watching this team we can win trophies with him. 

 

As for this "we bet big on". Well, maybe we shouldn't be so desperate for one player to come off. We're one of the world's wealthiest clubs. We hardly went out and smashed world records for him, we just paid the going rate for an alright forward player who may or may not do well. Isak, Sancho, Antony are recent examples of those types of player and their price tag. Take Harry kane for example who cost more than Darwin, is 30 years of age and earns about 3 or 4 times what Nunez does would be an example of where the cost is in the market. I think it's fair to say Munich are a financial peer of ours, so there's no reason why we couldn't sign players who are already at another level. We just choose not to. 

 

So we paid for, as you correctly put it,  a "bet". Right now we're not losing on that bet, we're getting about value. But it's clear as you said yourself when you said he's a goal away from a scoring streak, there's a high ceiling there. 

 

To win all the best trophies, you don't need world class players in every position. 

 

25 minutes ago, Code said:

Cant agree, for Salah’s chance he had to react quickly, Nunez first big one when he hit the bar was just unforgivable, and the second big one when Salah headed him through he did not even hit the ball.

 

The last one was probably the worst one because of that, but the first one you just have to score. 
 

 

Stop it. That Salah chance was an open goal. Nunez got absolutely slaughtered on here for an almost identical one the other week which was flagged offside. 

[TD_LFC]

Seems to be a significant downgrading of expectations going on.

 

Is the penny starting to drop?

[Kevin D]

It is not normal for people defending a striker to consistently say “ Obviously yes he did miss a few sitters again, but”.

[Barrington Womble]

1 minute ago, TD_LFC said:

Seems to be a significant downgrading of expectations going on.

 

Is the penny starting to drop?

No, we're not all desperate for him to fail like you are. I've never claimed he was world class. I've consistently said there's clearly a player there and those who can't see it just don't want to. You are by far the biggest example of this. 

[TD_LFC]

2 minutes ago, Kevin D said:

It is not normal for people defending a striker to consistently say “ Obviously yes he did miss a few sitters again, but”.

 

Yeah but as long as he shows a plucky can do attitude ....

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

4 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

Seems to be a significant downgrading of expectations going on.

 

Is the penny starting to drop?

What did you make of Salah’s back post finishing faced with an open goal today?

[TD_LFC]

1 minute ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:

What did you make of Salah’s back post finishing faced with an open goal today?

 

Should have scored, why?

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

3 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

 

Should have scored, why?

Ok, agree. 
 

Why? Because you seem obseessed with back post finishing, so it’s very surprising that you didnt comment on that one. Why?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

41 minutes ago, Elite said:

Fucking hell Code, Salah does make mistakes and you can admit that you know.

He's never made a mistake like this.

[TD_LFC]

8 minutes ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:

Ok, agree. 
 

Why? Because you seem obseessed with back post finishing, so it’s very surprising that you didnt comment on that one. Why?

 

For the same reason I would be more inclined to comment on and scrutinise a player with a poor disciplinary record picking up another red card than I would a player who's record has been otherwise exemplary.

 

Nunez isn't being picked up because he's made one mistake in one game no matter how many people want to try and reduce the argument to that level, it's because he's made multiple mistakes in front of goal in multiple games to the point where it's become a pattern.

 

He'd even be getting less scrutiny if he was testing the keeper with half of these misses but more often than not he's just not hitting the target or mis-hitting the ball entirely

[Kevin D]

30 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

 

Yeah but as long as he shows a plucky can do attitude ....

I like the kid, but the main striker for Liverpool cannot routinely miss chances my nan would score, he just can’t.

[3 Stacks]

47 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

There's 2 things for me. The main one is winning and the second is I like to enjoy watching the players who play for us. They don't have to be flash players, as an example Ronnie Whelan was one of my favourite players in Kenny's great side in the 80s. Football is a team game, Nunez is pretty unlikely to single handedly take us to the league. Just like Salah won't either. So if he's contributing and the balance of the side is good, it's fine for me. I enjoy watching Darwin and there's absolutely nothing to suggest watching this team we can win trophies with him. 

 

As for this "we bet big on". Well, maybe we shouldn't be so desperate for one player to come off. We're one of the world's wealthiest clubs. We hardly went out and smashed world records for him, we just paid the going rate for an alright forward player who may or may not do well. Isak, Sancho, Antony are recent examples of those types of player and their price tag. Take Harry kane for example who cost more than Darwin, is 30 years of age and earns about 3 or 4 times what Nunez does would be an example of where the cost is in the market. I think it's fair to say Munich are a financial peer of ours, so there's no reason why we couldn't sign players who are already at another level. We just choose not to. 

 

So we paid for, as you correctly put it,  a "bet". Right now we're not losing on that bet, we're getting about value. But it's clear as you said yourself when you said he's a goal away from a scoring streak, there's a high ceiling there. 

 

To win all the best trophies, you don't need world class players in every position. 

 

 

I think you're downplaying how big of a success we need him to be. He's going to be the guy who will need to pick up Salah's slack. When you sign a player who portends to be as dangerous as he does, you expect that to eventually turn that into big production. That is what we eventually need to see, there's no doubt about it.

 

This season, he's part of this group of 4 + Salah up front and there's been some collective success because we can throw waves of forwards at people. Can we keep those 5 fit enough times to give us a chance at the title, maybe. I doubt it, but maybe.

 

But when we will have to rely on him individually to come up with big moments, he will have to do it. Pretty much that simple.

 

And I have a similar gripe with Diaz, by the way; He is talented enough that he should be a far better player, but he simply isn't. And it's fine when he is 1 player out of 5, but there is little evidence we can count on him to consistently start matches and produce.

[lebron]

1 hour ago, Mil-ing Around said:

People still calling him raw, probably don't understand the meaning of the word. Same folk called Gravenberch raw before we signed him and he's as natural as they come.

 

Nunez has improved so much since he arrived, his link up play, touch, positional play, pressing have all improved by a huge amount. He's not raw anymore. He's just not as naturally talented as some are.

 

But he's erratic and not calm enough in his finishing. I've said it so many times in this thread, he's not going to be prolific, ever. He doesn't have ice in his veins when the moment arrives. 

 

He's going to be a purple patch striker and there will be a time when they all fly but only for short period of time. We need that luck to arrive at  exactly the right moment if we want to win the league this season. It's a wide open Premiership and everyone will drop points right until the end. I still think we have a chance to win it with Nunez up front.

 

I actually agree with most of what you’ve written there (if my post of describing him as raw was the one you were alluding to), apart from the bolded part. He’s pretty much helpless when facing defences that play a low block and park their CMs close to their defensive line. He’s just not good enough with the ball in the half-spaces to be effective in our build-up-play in those instances. Normally Salah is a good outlet if we want to bypass the midfield, but today the ball just bounced back against us every time we tried the quick ball forward.

 

I enjoyed our comeback today immensely, but we can’t have him missing this many chances if he’s to be our first choice in the centre when facing this type of side. 

 

Is raw not the same as unfinished in English? I think that describes him pretty well. Agree that he might be a bit of a purple patch striker. As you say, hopefully the goals start flowing in at the right time.

[TD_LFC]

58 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

No, we're not all desperate for him to fail like you are. I've never claimed he was world class. I've consistently said there's clearly a player there and those who can't see it just don't want to. You are by far the biggest example of this. 

 

I'm not desperate for him to fail, I'm desperate for him to be better than he is but I'm not convinced he'll be the player lots of people already thought he was before this shift in expectation.

 

 

[dave u]

Unlucky today, deserved a goal.

 

Those ripping his hair are almost certainly those who have lost or are losing theirs. 

[Creator Supreme]

1 minute ago, dave u said:

Unlucky today, deserved a goal.

 

Those ripping his hair are almost certainly those who have lost or are losing theirs. 

I'd have scored that last chance, and I'm 48 and fucking shit at footy.

 

Fuck his hair and fuck him, send him back to Benfica!

[Megadrive Man]

5 minutes ago, dave u said:

Unlucky today, deserved a goal.

 

Those ripping his hair are almost certainly those who have lost or are losing theirs. 

 

Defending him as a football player is one thing, but that haircut is defending the undefensible!

[stringvest]

18 minutes ago, dave u said:

Unlucky today, deserved a goal.

 

Those ripping his hair are almost certainly those who have lost or are losing theirs. 

 

that fucking hair is a disgrace Dave, there's no two ways about it.  If he goes out in town with that hair, those bangs are going to end up like a trophy hanging over the fireplace on some scal's living room wall.

[Aventus]

Old video, he's had a few more since this was made. 

 

[Ezekiel 25:17]

3 hours ago, LFC 6 Times said:

He really should have at least 5-6 more goals this season. His catalogue of misses is as bad as any striker in Europe.

 

 

Any striker in history.

[Ezekiel 25:17]

4 hours ago, Dave D said:

He’s an improvement on Origi with better hair. Not a starter at this stage though

 

Here in lies the problem , he's first choice central striker and will continue to be , four games now without a goal and missed chance after chance , I'm sick of him.

[Ezekiel 25:17]

He's a complete enigma in the fact criticism doesn't phase him, pressure doesn't phase him, importance of the game doesn't, but facing a goal keeper he goes to pieces.

[LFC 6 Times]

There’s a bit too much underplaying of repeatedly missing sitters. Of course, all strikers miss chances and the most clinical players have a conversion rate of around 20% but it’s the nature of the chances with Darwin. It’s his job to put the ball in the net and he’s not doing it often enough and missing big chances in decisive moments.

[Mil-ing Around]

1 hour ago, lebron said:

 

I actually agree with most of what you’ve written there (if my post of describing him as raw was the one you were alluding to), apart from the bolded part. He’s pretty much helpless when facing defences that play a low block and park their CMs close to their defensive line. He’s just not good enough with the ball in the half-spaces to be effective in our build-up-play in those instances. Normally Salah is a good outlet if we want to bypass the midfield, but today the ball just bounced back against us every time we tried the quick ball forward.

 

I enjoyed our comeback today immensely, but we can’t have him missing this many chances if he’s to be our first choice in the centre when facing this type of side. 

 

Is raw not the same as unfinished in English? I think that describes him pretty well. Agree that he might be a bit of a purple patch striker. As you say, hopefully the goals start flowing in at the right time.

 

Nah mate wasn't aimed at you. I think you make some good posts on here and talk sense. I agree with what your saying. 

 

Yeah raw is unfinished, usually it's your first touch that is raw. Balls bounce off you, close control isn't great when dribbling etc. Thats what Nunez was 18 months ago.

 

Right now Nunez is playing about as good as his all round game will get in my opinion. He's improved ALOT and his touch, control, awareness, runs, pressing are visibly improved. Is there another level to come from him in his all round game? I don't think so.

 

He's never going to be cute enough in the half spaces like you say. He just doesn't have the awareness and natural ability. We miss a prime Firmino for sure but no two players are the same. Nunez is a striker, lots of them don't have that to their game either.

 

I'm not his biggest fan, far from it, I've slated him on this thread before. But only a hater or wanaberighter would say he's still shit. He's not shit and has made huge strides and improvements. It's so visible. That doesn't make him a Liverpool level player though. I'm just saying, he's definitely better now then when he arrived.

 

But will he ever be good enough to make us fight for the league every season or win us a champions league? In my opinion no. But I hope I'm wrong. 

 

He misses too many sitters, and that's ok when you win but we need points consistently. His miss against Luton cost us 2 points. Today he had chances and it could have cost us again.

 

People on here are saying "but everyone misses chances, Salah, Aguero, Ronaldo, Haaland...they all miss" and that's true. But do they all miss easy chances consistently as much as Nunez? No, they don't. 

 

I just don't see him being ruthless and clinical for 3 or 4 seasons in a row, which is what we need to fight for the title every year.

 

But this season is different, City aren't the same, Arsenal aren't City, Spurs/Villa/Newcastle can take points off anyone.  Everyone is going to drop points. We have a chance, Nunez just needs to hit a purple patch for 6/8 weeks in the crunch part of the run in and we might just nick it.

 

We should stick by him this season. His pace and presence causes mayhem and it's about as good as we are going to get this year. It causes enough problems to create some chances. Our attack isn't fluid at all.