The New Leader of the Labour Party

[sir roger]

7 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

I think they needed to attack more. They were far too passive and accepting about it all.

 

Point out inconsistencies, lies and hypocrisy.

 

Changing the reality was less important than changing the image. 

 

They did all that Jair, but what do you do when it just gets ignored or twisted by the great majority of the MSM ? They treated him as a scatty uncle from his becoming Labour leader up to the 2017 election. They made sure they didnt make that mistake again.

 

Don't get me wrong, there are several things I am not too happy about with Corbyn in the 2019 election , but your point above was basically out of his hands.

[sir roger]

8 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Anyone, anyone?

 

 

I don't remember anybody in here saying the party had nobody with anti-semitic leanings , the general argument was that , give it take TheLib Dems , there was statistically less than any other mainstream party , and that it never began or even increased with the advent of Corbyn as leader, despite the hysterical media coverage and the reaction and comments of the Jewish hierarchy.

 

The report makes those points pretty straightforwardly,  with the finger for inaction pointedly squarely at McNicol ( who we were aware was a cunt ) and more surprisingly , the head of resolutions Sam Matthews. You may remember this poor soul from Panorama stating that he considered throwing himself off the Labour HO roof he was so upset by the new regime ignoring A/S complaints when it transpires that he sat on @ 80% of the 150 or so cases he was given to deal with.

 

 

[JohnnyH]

Calling Israel a shower of human rights abusing murdering cunts doesn’t make you anti Semitic, in the same way calling Robert Mugabe a murdering cunt who thatcher loved doesn’t make you a racist. If the cap fits. 

[mattyq]

45 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Its more disturbing that Starmer has put two arch liars Jess Phillips and Wes Streeting in the cabinet.

He hasn't,  they're not in the shadow cabinet

[mattyq]

59 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

I think they needed to attack more. They were far too passive and accepting about it all.

 

Point out inconsistencies, lies and hypocrisy.

 

Changing the reality was less important than changing the image. 

 

Agreed

They needed to manage the Press and keep at them all the time.

Keep control of the agenda and the narrative which they completely failed to do... they might not even have tried to do it

Obama was very good at this as was Alastair Campbell 

Cummings, unfortunately, is also excellent at it

[Jairzinho]

47 minutes ago, sir roger said:

They did all that Jair, but what do you do when it just gets ignored or twisted by the great majority of the MSM ? They treated him as a scatty uncle from his becoming Labour leader up to the 2017 election. They made sure they didnt make that mistake again.

 

Don't get me wrong, there are several things I am not too happy about with Corbyn in the 2019 election , but your point above was basically out of his hands.

I don't think they did at all, mate. As I said, far too passive and accepting. It should have been called out for the crock of shit it was on day one. 

 

There were Tories, people in an actual racist party, calling Labour racist every day on the news. It was just allowed to happen. 

 

The BBC' bias should have been called out daily as well. 

 

We know cunt media is the enemy and yet they were allowed to do as they pleased. I don't think there was any joined up strategy for this sort of stuff at all.

 

The stories were never going to go away with the dithering non response of Labour. 

 

Would have helped binning off the shit stirring cunts in the party as well. Dig dirt on them, leak it to the press. Whatever it takes. 

 

Everything about the leadership was too weak and too nice. The media are cunts, politics is full of cunts. We had to outcunt them, and we passed up the opportunity. We wanted to play nice guy and it was never going to work. 

 

 

[Pureblood]

The media were overwhelmingly against Corbyn.  I don't see how it was possible for him to control the agenda, he was stitched up.  He didn't stand a chance. It's not a level playing field. 

[sir roger]

13 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

I don't think they did at all, mate. As I said, far too passive and accepting. It should have been called out for the crock of shit it was on day one. 

 

There were Tories, people in an actual racist party, calling Labour racist every day on the news. It was just allowed to happen. 

 

The BBC' bias should have been called out daily as well. 

 

We know cunt media is the enemy and yet they were allowed to do as they pleased. I don't think there was any joined up strategy for this sort of stuff at all.

 

The stories were never going to go away with the dithering non response of Labour. 

 

Would have helped binning off the shit stirring cunts in the party as well. Dig dirt on them, leak it to the press. Whatever it takes. 

 

Everything about the leadership was too weak and too nice. The media are cunts, politics is full of cunts. We had to outcunt them, and we passed up the opportunity. We wanted to play nice guy and it was never going to work. 

 

 

Agree with the overall tone of your comments in that my criticisms of Corbyn are the ' niceness ' element , which stopped him making a better fist of the leadership. His appeasement of his critics was to me a massive weakness and his ' they go low we go high ' strategy failed miserably.

 

I would say however that in view of his politics he was never going to get a fair press in this country , and your two examples are unfair , as I think the US media is different , and Campbell was in cahoots with the main media mogul , with Corbyn never going to be given any such option.

[mattyq]

2 minutes ago, TK421 said:

The media was overwhelmingly against Corbyn.  I don't see how it was possible for him to control the agenda, he was stitched up.  He didn't stand a chance. It's not a level playing field. 

Agreed, it's not a level playing field but if he or any other Labour leader wants to be PM that's what they have to do.

If they can't or think it's impossible or fail trying then they have no business being the leader of the Labour Party

The Tories are cunts but they're good at winning. They'll sell their Granny for a sniff of power. Labour need to learn this and become as ruthless as them or we're destined for perpetual Tory rule

[Pureblood]

1 minute ago, mattyq said:

Agreed, it's not a level playing field but if he or any other Labour leader wants to be PM that's what they have to do.

If they can't or think it's impossible or fail trying then they have no business being the leader of the Labour Party

The Tories are cunts but they're good at winning. They'll sell their Granny for a sniff of power. Labour need to learn this and become as ruthless as them or we're destined for perpetual Tory rule.

I've come to accept perpetual Tory rule.  The current PM went on telly to tell people that many families would be losing loved ones and still gets the hero worship treatment.  The game is up for Labour, in my opinion. 

[mattyq]

Just now, TK421 said:

I've come to accept perpetual Tory rule.  The current PM went on telly to tell people that many families would be losing loved ones and still gets the hero worship treatment.  The game is up for Labour, in my opinion. 

I don't think that's the case and, more importantly, I don't think Starmer does

[Pureblood]

1 minute ago, mattyq said:

I don't think that's the case and, more importantly, I don't think Starmer does

Yeah fair enough, I'm a pessimist. I just don't see a way past the media machine and I don't think the Tories have a traditional demographic anymore so don't hold out much hope for things to change.

[Jairzinho]

I don't think Starmer is enough of a cunt either. 

[Megadrive Man]

15 hours ago, aRdja said:

Corbyn’s biggest mistake was to humour those 2nd referendum supporting fuckwits, thus abandoning his democratic principles. The country voted to leave the EU in the referendum and also confirmed by the european election where a brand new party with no manifesto, other than “clean-break Brexit” walked it. 

The Labour Membership was about 75% to 80% remain though. Leaving the EU was completely at odds with this and the youth momentum vote.

 

Also what Brexit policy could Labour have offered in 2019? Support the Johnson deal? Leave with no deal? The whole reason an election was called is because they opposed both of them. All they could have realistically put forward was that they would negotiate a better deal. I don't think this would have helped them get anywhere near enough votes to win or do significantly better.

[torahboy]

I wonder why members of the JLM, knowing that the McNicol administration did not act on claims of anti-Semitism, collluded with the centrist strain in this matter. British Jews, especially those who are  members of the Labour Party, were fed lies and their resultant anger was utilised by the LFI and BoD to attack Corbyn. The Blairites used organizations designed to advance and protect Jewish interests to manipulate the broader Jewry through lies. Zionists are not just shady. they are totally fucking dark.  

[TheHowieLama]

Jewry - top work.

[Section_31]

One thing Starmer has got going for him is, for want of a better word, presentation. He comes across well.

 

Cameron always worried me when when the Tories were in opposition. IDS, Hague and Howard were never slick enough to win over floating voters but Cameron was. It was like someone who got a C in A Level in biology tried to clone Tony Blair but left out the brains, but the important bits (at least in this day and age, were).

 

He could hold his own in interviews, looked slick, and looked like the T-1000 to Gordon Brown's Schwarzenegger at the despatch box.

 

I think Starmer is cut from the same cloth in terms of slick skills and how he interviews, probably due to a career spent in court having to think before he speaks but being able to do so under pressure. But he's far more intelligent than him (which isn't tough).

 

I think he'll do alright. And his leadership campaign was slick as fuck too in terms of the team around him, Corbyn's inner circle were a fucking disaster zone and chosen more for loyalty than ability to write a sentence or plan a campaign.

 

 

[Rico1304]

2 hours ago, Section_31 said:

One thing Starmer has got going for him is, for want of a better word, presentation. He comes across well.

 

Cameron always worried me when when the Tories were in opposition. IDS, Hague and Howard were never slick enough to win over floating voters but Cameron was. It was like someone who got a C in A Level in biology tried to clone Tony Blair but left out the brains, but the important bits (at least in this day and age, were).

 

He could hold his own in interviews, looked slick, and looked like the T-1000 to Gordon Brown's Schwarzenegger at the despatch box.

 

I think Starmer is cut from the same cloth in terms of slick skills and how he interviews, probably due to a career spent in court having to think before he speaks but being able to do so under pressure. But he's far more intelligent than him (which isn't tough).

 

I think he'll do alright. And his leadership campaign was slick as fuck too in terms of the team around him, Corbyn's inner circle were a fucking disaster zone and chosen more for loyalty than ability to write a sentence or plan a campaign.

 

 

 I think that showed in the Leadership campaign when they backed Burgon for Deputy. It can only be loyalty that led to anyone supporting him. Deputy Dog would have been an upgrade. 

[Bobby Hundreds]

Unless the media is onside you're fucked. Boris is a lying, cheating, deceitful bastard, he is self serving, arrogant and elitist beyond belief. He is bullingdon through and through. To the media he is jack the lad, gets things done, integrity. He does it for us, he fights for us. 

 

I hate this we will beat this bollocks, we will win shite. Of course were going to get past this the only other scenario is every fucker dies. When the dust settles nothing has been won, we've all lost. The only way we gain anything from this is if we learn from it, we change. The biggest thing that could happen in my opinion is we find community again. I miss my family, my friends and my colleagues. I took it all for granted.

[Gnasher]

The guardian and bbc should issue Corbyn with a public apology 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/apr/12/hostility-to-corbyn-curbed-labour-efforts-to-tackle-antisemitism-says-leaked-report

[Red Phoenix]

 

[Captain Turdseye]

I think the full report is here. 
 

 

Click that and it should open. 

[Bjornebye]

1 hour ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

Unless the media is onside you're fucked. Boris is a lying, cheating, deceitful bastard, he is self serving, arrogant and elitist beyond belief. He is bullingdon through and through. To the media he is jack the lad, gets things done, integrity. He does it for us, he fights for us. 

 

I hate this we will beat this bollocks, we will win shite. Of course were going to get past this the only other scenario is every fucker dies. When the dust settles nothing has been won, we've all lost. The only way we gain anything from this is if we learn from it, we change. The biggest thing that could happen in my opinion is we find community again. I miss my family, my friends and my colleagues. I took it all for granted.

Out of rep. Best post Ive seen in a while. Sums it all up. 

[Red Phoenix]

From a change petition :

Quote

Keir Starmer - Publish the Antisemitism report in full
 

The issue of Antisemitism has dominated Labour politics for four years. The Labour Party report on Antisemitism was funded by the subscription fees of hundreds of thousands of ordinary members - it should be their right to see this and comment on it.

Most members of the public and of the Labour Party have had their view on this issue moulded by the media and by senior Labour Party figures. This report presents us with a chance to understand definitively what has happened and which of our representatives have acted with honour or otherwise throughout this period.

We call on Keir Starmer to publish this report in full without delay - Nothing but full transparency should do for a political party which aspires to govern.

 

https://www.change.org/p/keir-starmer-keir-starmer-publish-the-antisemitism-report-in-full?

 

 

 

[Rico1304]

57 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

I think the full report is here. 
 

 

Click that and it should open. 

Ouch. The exec summary is pretty damning.