Looks like we're starting our season in July, then

[Dermot]

I say sue UEFA, they have a rule that allows the Champions to defend their trophy, they have a rule that says only 4 teams in the competition from a particular country, they have to break one of their 'sacred' fucking rules, it seems to me to be a simple choice that you let the Champions defend their trophy, but if they don't we should use their rules against them, and see what makes the rule of 4 so important that it can't be broken.

[redrosetints]

Even th FA web site had that stuff from last season about Arsenal and Chelsea, so they knew it owuld happen and they were happy for thelunnen shites to get in.

 

yeah i totally agree they changed the rules last season and if it happened it would of been LIVERPOOL in the uefa cup. Im with aws we should challenge the FA in court.

 

Id have no problem with that, but on what grounds ? What could a civil court do for a sporting issue ? Not a dig a genuine question, how could they help us ?

 

The crux of the matter is that the rules is the rules but the rules are an ass.

 

I dont think any court could find in our favour as nothing is explicit.

[Dirk]

Id have no problem with that, but on what grounds ? What could a civil court do for a sporting issue ? Not a dig a genuine question, how could they help us ?

 

The crux of the matter is that the rules is the rules but the rules are an ass.

 

I dont think any court could find in our favour as nothing is explicit.

 

I think we could challenge them on their website and how they went back on the rules. The rules were the rules but the FA changed them mid-season.

[AndyH]

It's the FA's fault - they're using us as a pawn to try and get an extra place, by nominating the 4th place side earlier in the season they were in a no lose situation. Although the UEFA rules should have been set in stone after the Madrid precedent.

 

Should take whatever UEFA give us with regards to the CL, then tell the FA to stick the FA Cup (or just put the kids out again). I'd probably pull out of the World club thing in Japan too, just to make the point to UEFA.

 

You're right about the rules changing, forget all this rules are rules shite off the blues, they were set last year so that we'd go in the UEFA if Chelsea or Arsenal won it and finished outside the top 4. They were the same until the FA nominated the 4th place side (which surprisingly shafted us again).

[Bob]

I think we could challenge them on their website and how they went back on the rules. The rules were the rules but the FA changed them mid-season.

 

the problem with that is that it wasnt an official FA statement. It was an FA statement, but apparently it wasnt official because it was on the web, not on paper.

 

I honestly think that if it could be challenged in court we would have told either the FA or Uefa that it could and we would and we'd win, and then say 'you dont want to be made to look an ass, so just change the rules'

[Dirk]

the problem with that is that it wasnt an official FA statement. It was an FA statement, but apparently it wasnt official because it was on the web, not on paper.

 

I honestly think that if it could be challenged in court we would have told either the FA or Uefa that it could and we would and we'd win, and then say 'you dont want to be made to look an ass, so just change the rules'

 

 

I think from a diplomatic perspective the club wouldn't have wanted to mount a legal challenge. It would be construed as sour grapes. I also think the club will have wanted to see what UEFA say about the matter. Why piss on the feet of the people that might end up sorting you out? If we did mount a challenge I think we would win. I think that you could argue that the website of the FA is representative of them. If it isn't, who does it belong to, cyber ghosts?

[aws]

Id have no problem with that, but on what grounds ? What could a civil court do for a sporting issue ? Not a dig a genuine question, how could they help us ?

 

The crux of the matter is that the rules is the rules but the rules are an ass.

 

I dont think any court could find in our favour as nothing is explicit.

 

It's too late to challenge the FA now as they have the right to choose us or Everton and they have already chosen.

What we needed to do was to stop them making the choice weeks ago on the basis that it was too early for a proper decision to be made when the CL was not decided and we had not had a fair opportunity to make our case to them.

[Strontium]

It's too late to challenge the FA now as they have the right to choose us or Everton and they have already chosen.

Exactly, we need to fucking get over this right now.

 

The FA have gambled on Liverpool winning the CL, and it's paid off for them handsomely.

 

Now they'll have five English teams in next season's Champions League, instead of four; five lots of revenue instead of four; five contributors to England's UEFA coefficient instead of four.

 

Of course, UEFA would have expected the FA to drop Everton like a stone, like the Spanish FA had done in the past, but they stuck to their guns and called UEFA's bluff.

[Moschops II]

Exactly, we need to fucking get over this right now.

 

The FA have gambled on Liverpool winning the CL, and it's paid off for them handsomely.

 

Now they'll have five English teams in next season's Champions League, instead of four; five lots of revenue instead of four; five contributors to England's UEFA coefficient instead of four.

 

Of course, UEFA would have expected the FA to drop Everton like a stone, like the Spanish FA had done in the past, but they stuck to their guns and called UEFA's bluff.

 

Agreed. I honestly don't see why people are getting in such a flap over this. If we'd nicked fourth place (and still won in Istanbul) we'd just have gone into the 3rd qualifying round as per and no-one would have batted an eyelid. We finish fifth and effectively require a rule change to be in the thing at all and suddenly everyone starts getting arsey at not being let straight into the group stage? Weird...

[Brownie]

Agreed. I honestly don't see why people are getting in such a flap over this. If we'd nicked fourth place (and still won in Istanbul) we'd just have gone into the 3rd qualifying round as per and no-one would have batted an eyelid. We finish fifth and effectively require a rule change to be in the thing at all and suddenly everyone starts getting arsey at not being let straight into the group stage? Weird...

 

Where's the original 'Moschops'?

[bri]

some good points dog, but its not 5 lots of revenue well it is in one way (gates) but the cash from the tv (i think) and uefa is split between the 5 instead of 4. however having 5 teams in the CL would enhance our points situation which is what the allocation is based on anyway.

[BatChainPuller]

That fat cunt Johansson is taking the piss out of us and has been from the very moment he opened his fat gob to say he supported our claim for a place. Today he says: "In my opinion Liverpool should be in from the very beginning - they will have to go through all the competition." If that isn't a classic example of someone pissing up your back and trying to tell you its raining then I don't know what is.

 

The FA are doing exactly the same - I really don't think any of those morons seriously considered we would win - they're just trying to avoid any publicity backlash by putting the blame on UEFA. I really think neither of em want us in on the off-chance we might win it again, and they're enjoying watching us twisting in the wind.

 

The whole thing is really pissing me off every time I hear the mealy-mouthed bureaucratic bollocks they all spout. We did more on the 25th to raise the reputation of the tournament - by how our players and our fans conducted themselves - than all of those tossers will ever do.

 

We are The Rafalution and we strike fear into the hearts of the midgets who beset us. :telloff:

[Moschops II]

Where's the original 'Moschops'?

 

Rashid bored him to death.

 

The new one's better anyway. He's bionic.

[Paul]

Rashid bored him to death.

 

The new one's better anyway. He's bionic.

Nice one. Have you got bionic legs or arms? And can you make that bionic noise? I fucking love that bionic noise.

[Moschops II]

Nice one. Have you got bionic legs or arms? And can you make that bionic noise? I fucking love that bionic noise.

 

Both - which is a lot of fun. My wife complains about the bionic noise though, she says it freaks her out.

Anyway, better go, I've got to lift some boulders in slow motion.

[Paul]

Both - which is a lot of fun. My wife complains about the bionic noise though, she says it freaks her out.

Anyway, better go, I've got to lift some boulders in slow motion.

Before you go, do you do the "Der, ner, ner, ner. Der, ner, ner, ner, ner, ner, ner, ner." music in your head as you use your bionics?

 

I'd love to be bionic.

[Tim]

If we'd nicked fourth place (and still won in Istanbul) we'd just have gone into the 3rd qualifying round as per and no-one would have batted an eyelid.

 

we would have gone straight to the group stage.

[Nunavut Patrick]

That fat cunt Johansson is taking the piss out of us and has been from the very moment he opened his fat gob to say he supported our claim for a place. Today he says: "In my opinion Liverpool should be in from the very beginning - they will have to go through all the competition." If that isn't a classic example of someone pissing up your back and trying to tell you its raining then I don't know what is.

 

The FA are doing exactly the same - I really don't think any of those morons seriously considered we would win - they're just trying to avoid any publicity backlash by putting the blame on UEFA. I really think neither of em want us in on the off-chance we might win it again, and they're enjoying watching us twisting in the wind.

 

The whole thing is really pissing me off every time I hear the mealy-mouthed bureaucratic bollocks they all spout. We did more on the 25th to raise the reputation of the tournament - by how our players and our fans conducted themselves - than all of those tossers will ever do.

 

We are The Rafalution and we strike fear into the hearts of the midgets who beset us. :telloff:

 

The fat Swede is playing politics. They just love floating out every scenerio, sit back and see if it swims or sinks. I reckon Meatball Lenny is just throwing that out there to appease the 'rules are rules' brigade so that he can, whilst supping glog and clogging his arteries with chocolate fondue in his Toberlone Palace in Nyon, then say they considered all avenues and options and put us into the QR3. At this stage it's beginning to get tiresome. Perhaps the Iclandic and Maltese representatives are just enjoying their moment in the spotlight. If we'd gotten fourth we'd never have heard of this Malta bloke. And after it's all done the dumb fucker can go back to watching Malta get thrashed by 6 goals in their shitty little protectriat. Which brings me to this: If Israel are allowed in Europe and this causes a kerfuffle, why the fuck to we let duchys and/or principalities(Liechenstien, Andorra) protectrates and the like? What purpose does it serve to have the Faroe Islands compete? Why doesn;t Gibraltar have a team? Over half of Luxembourg's population is EU bureacrats from other countries. Cyprus is an island with two nations claiming it as well. Why no Greekl Cypriot and Turk Cypriot team. And shouldn't you get 6 points for beating Serbia and Montenegro, since it likes two countries? What's next, perhaps Corsica? And why doesn't Monaco have a national team? They have a Grand Prix. Just like San Marino. Who have a national team.

 

No wonder the EU Constitution went three ways to the teats of a cow- it's all dysfunctional.

[Captain]

I can sense the temperature rising in this thread.

 

Btw, D-day is Friday it seems.

[Dirk]

we would have gone straight to the group stage.

 

Correct.

[BatChainPuller]

The fat Swede is playing politics. They just love floating out every scenerio, sit back and see if it swims or sinks. I reckon Meatball Lenny is just throwing that out there to appease the 'rules are rules' brigade so that he can, whilst supping glog and clogging his arteries with chocolate fondue in his Toberlone Palace in Nyon, then say they considered all avenues and options and put us into the QR3. At this stage it's beginning to get tiresome. Perhaps the Iclandic and Maltese representatives are just enjoying their moment in the spotlight. If we'd gotten fourth we'd never have heard of this Malta bloke. And after it's all done the dumb fucker can go back to watching Malta get thrashed by 6 goals in their shitty little protectriat. Which brings me to this: If Israel are allowed in Europe and this causes a kerfuffle, why the fuck to we let duchys and/or principalities(Liechenstien, Andorra) protectrates and the like? What purpose does it serve to have the Faroe Islands compete? Why doesn;t Gibraltar have a team? Over half of Luxembourg's population is EU bureacrats from other countries. Cyprus is an island with two nations claiming it as well. Why no Greekl Cypriot and Turk Cypriot team. And shouldn't you get 6 points for beating Serbia and Montenegro, since it likes two countries? What's next, perhaps Corsica? And why doesn't Monaco have a national team? They have a Grand Prix. Just like San Marino. Who have a national team.

 

No wonder the EU Constitution went three ways to the teats of a cow- it's all dysfunctional.

 

Fat lenny seems to be suggesting QR1 not QR3 - and thats his starting point FFS ! - maybe we will have to win a tournament against the principalities, duchies, and barbary apes first. After that we'll have to play two away rounds against a Bosnian-Herzegovinian team dressed as pickled herrings. If we don't accept fat lenny's proposition we'll be told we turned down a generous offer - the only offer ' that will be acceptable to the other parties' will be a comedy offer.

 

Hope I'm wrong but I have no faith in any of those UEFA/FA arseholes.

[Moschops II]

we would have gone straight to the group stage.

 

Fair do's. I still think it's a bit over the top to get all hissy about us having to enter in the final qualifying round.

 

Oh, and Paul, I'm not doing the music, that would be silly. Bionicism is a serious condition.

[Strontium]

Fat lenny seems to be suggesting QR1 not QR3 - and thats his starting point FFS ! - maybe we will have to win a tournament against the principalities, duchies, and barbary apes first. After that we'll have to play two away rounds against a Bosnian-Herzegovinian team dressed as pickled herrings. If we don't accept fat lenny's proposition we'll be told we turned down a generous offer - the only offer ' that will be acceptable to the other parties' will be a comedy offer.

 

Hope I'm wrong but I have no faith in any of those UEFA/FA arseholes.

We're all biased here, but I think you're a little too Liverpool-centric here, if you don't mind me saying so ;). What you have to bear in mind is that UEFA has to make its position seem fair and balanced.

 

Now, UEFA wants us in the competition next year - a competition that, under the rules as they stand, we have NO RIGHT to be entered into. Our entry into the competition will be at someone else's expense. UEFA is already copping flak for their stance that Liverpool should be in next season's competition.

 

With that in mind, an entry straight into the group stage is pretty much out of the question. Only by forcing us to go through the rigmarole of qualifying can the "legitimacy" of our entry into the competition be established, thus enabling UEFA to avoid accusations of favouritism towards the big clubs.

 

I know we're the holders, and we should go straight into the group stage, but those aren't the rules. UEFA is going to have to break its own rules to allow us into the competition, and I say that playing a couple of games against small-time opposition is a fair price to pay.

[bri]

we would have gone straight to the group stage.

 

true there are only 15 slots taken for the group stage and there is still one slot available. The other slot is there for the winners of the CL (providing they finished in our case the top 4)

[BatChainPuller]

We're all biased here, but I think you're a little too Liverpool-centric here, if you don't mind me saying so ;). What you have to bear in mind is that UEFA has to make its position seem fair and balanced.

 

Now, UEFA wants us in the competition next year - a competition that, under the rules as they stand, we have NO RIGHT to be entered into. Our entry into the competition will be at someone else's expense. UEFA is already copping flak for their stance that Liverpool should be in next season's competition.

 

With that in mind, an entry straight into the group stage is pretty much out of the question. Only by forcing us to go through the rigmarole of qualifying can the "legitimacy" of our entry into the competition be established, thus enabling UEFA to avoid accusations of favouritism towards the big clubs.

 

I know we're the holders, and we should go straight into the group stage, but those aren't the rules. UEFA is going to have to break its own rules to allow us into the competition, and I say that playing a couple of games against small-time opposition is a fair price to pay.

 

As you say 'under the rules as they stand, we have no right' - well thats about the inadequacy of their rules I reckon - we have a right under natural justice and common sense. All laws and rules (that are worth anything) have to adapt and develop to meet changing circumstances - without knowing the turgid ins and outs of the evolution of UEFA's rules I'm damn sure they're not the same set of rules that they had when UEFA was formed. Of course they have scope for discretion and interpretation, its all very political and controlled by interest groups.

 

Whatever decision they make will be unpopular - if we aren't in it will diminish the CL as a spectacle and a contest with continuity - if are in then of course it will be at someones expense - politics will decide who. If they had a bit of imagination they could come up with some form of compensation.

 

If you're running an operation called The Champions League it is probably fair to expect it will be dominated by big clubs - thats what people pay to see.

 

I wasn't expecting a golden ticket to the group stages - just not having to play from the very first qualifying round which was my beef with what fat lenny said.