Crystal Palace (H) - Mon 15th Aug 2022 (8:00pm)

[Pete]

Bit shit that. Onward and upward. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

7 hours ago, Josef Svejk said:

Has this club ever invested from a position of strength? 

Yes. We bought Jota, Thiago and Tsimikas when we won the league.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

6 hours ago, Strontium said:

For a team with pretensions to the title, fixtures against Fulham and Palace should be absolute gimmes.

 

Christ knows what will happen if we play someone good.

Man City have lost against some proper shite in recent season's. They'll drop some "absolute gimmes" again this year.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 hours ago, FrenchEyeGlass said:

Shock fucking horror Jurgen, all the players who came under the influence of this “witch” are either injury prone or old as fuck. 
 

The witch’s name is called age. Her surname is sick-note. 

30 is not "old as fuck".

[Moo]

Did anyone really expect much better once they'd seen the team sheet?  Play an eleven like that many more times and we'll see many more performances and results like that.

[clockspeed]

We do need to consider that we played every game possible in our schedule last year. Plus mane and mo played to final of Afcon. Our players are certainly "less fresh" than everyone else's. Also we probably have more injuries due to mins played as well. So unless we have 2 x first teams we are going to see line ups like last night. Basically we were unlucky if we had scored we would have won abiet we would have faded in 2nd half. On a side note although not condoning a head butt I think a wee bit of snide is something we are missing . Nunez just needs to tone it down a bit .

[Lario]

9 hours ago, Josef Svejk said:

Sadio Mane is one of the most underrated players in the history of our club. 

 

All I have to say.... 

I don't know who underrated him, certainly among our fanbase. Outsiders can get ta fuck with their opinions.

 

Plus, we didn't push him out the door. He left for more money. Nothing we could do without shattering our wage structure.

[Dave D]

Nunez will have hot streaks through the season but I dont think he will hit the heights we are hoping for        

[Peter Cormack]

Yet another shit refereeing display from Tierney. Anderson was niggling and fouling  Nunez for the whole game. Nothing given. The team with the best disciplinary record in the league has had two players sent off by the same ref in successive games he’s reffed. Coincidence?

[FrenchEyeGlass]

2 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

30 is not "old as fuck".

The point stands, if Thiago, Hendo and Bobby were their 25 year old selves maybe they would be less brittle. But they are not. They do not have the physical ability to drive this team to honors. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

11 minutes ago, FrenchEyeGlass said:

The point stands, if Thiago, Hendo and Bobby were their 25 year old selves maybe they would be less brittle. But they are not. They do not have the physical ability to drive this team to honors. 

In the last three years we've signed three forwards younger than Bobby.  Elliott and (date I say it) Keita are younger than Henderson and Thiago. Those pensioners and invalids who cannot possibly drive this club to honours won two major trophies and came as close as it's possible to get to two more. 

 

The squad is being refreshed, continually. It doesn't need a Nottingham Forest-style overhaul, just the steady evolution that has had us challenging and winning things all over the place for the last few years.

[etho]

I think were getting carried away. We didn't play well v Fulham but still should have won, and we played fine last night but obviously circumstances went against us.

 

Some of the frustration I think is because this feeling we've already dropped points on Man city. Of course we have, but they will drop points and maybe we have to be realistic enough to painfully accept this year but if they're rolling off to rack up another 100 points, were not matching it. I think they will accumulate less overall though.

 

I think we're missing Mane, not so much in the position he played for us for years, left wing, as Diaz already took his spot there last year. But as a number 9 last year he was sensational, running in behind, hold up and link play, goals, he was a massive factor in us coming so close to a quadruple. I also think we're missing Jota and the goals and endeavour he provides, and that has put a burden onto Nunez far sooner than Klopp would have intended.

 

It is completely ridiculous the criticism he's getting after around 90 minutes competitive football. He's scored 2 and could have scored 5 or 6. He's clearly going to take some time to acclimatise, the step up to being a massive fee signing as a number 9 for us, from being at almeria and benfica for one season is massive. Can't defend him but it looks like the occasion got to him yesterday and his frustration boiled over. There are parallels with when Klopp signing lewandowski (albeit for comparitive peanuts) in that he was rough round the edges and needed to refine his game, but had all the attributes. When it all comes together we will go to another level. We're in a bit of transition right now 

 

 

[Daisy]

1 hour ago, etho said:

I think were getting carried away. We didn't play well v Fulham but still should have won, and we played fine last night but obviously circumstances went against us.

 

Some of the frustration I think is because this feeling we've already dropped points on Man city. Of course we have, but they will drop points and maybe we have to be realistic enough to painfully accept this year but if they're rolling off to rack up another 100 points, were not matching it. I think they will accumulate less overall though.

 

I think we're missing Mane, not so much in the position he played for us for years, left wing, as Diaz already took his spot there last year. But as a number 9 last year he was sensational, running in behind, hold up and link play, goals, he was a massive factor in us coming so close to a quadruple. I also think we're missing Jota and the goals and endeavour he provides, and that has put a burden onto Nunez far sooner than Klopp would have intended.

 

It is completely ridiculous the criticism he's getting after around 90 minutes competitive football. He's scored 2 and could have scored 5 or 6. He's clearly going to take some time to acclimatise, the step up to being a massive fee signing as a number 9 for us, from being at almeria and benfica for one season is massive. Can't defend him but it looks like the occasion got to him yesterday and his frustration boiled over. There are parallels with when Klopp signing lewandowski (albeit for comparitive peanuts) in that he was rough round the edges and needed to refine his game, but had all the attributes. When it all comes together we will go to another level. We're in a bit of transition right now 

 

 

Probably more accurate to compare him to that Italian bum Klopp signed

[FrenchEyeGlass]

3 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

In the last three years we've signed three forwards younger than Bobby.  Elliott and (date I say it) Keita are younger than Henderson and Thiago. Those pensioners and invalids who cannot possibly drive this club to honours won two major trophies and came as close as it's possible to get to two more. 

 

The squad is being refreshed, continually. It doesn't need a Nottingham Forest-style overhaul, just the steady evolution that has had us challenging and winning things all over the place for the last few years.

You're right. We are going to win everything this year. There is nothing wrong. It was actually part of the plan for us to draw our first two games against bottom half clubs and have 8 major injuries.

 

Edit: Sorry, not trying to be a facetious dick, but it's tiresome having to argue this point when it's like trying to convince somebody the sky is blue. Our midfield has been under invested in for 3 seasons. We waited until we saw our senior 3 attackers got until the last year of our contract before reacting with a poor hand, allowing Mane leave for pittance and having a spent force in Bobby still around. We have done fucking terribly at squad planning and recruitment for a few windows now. It's in spite of that recruitment that we achieved anything last year.

[dockers_strike]

Well after the dust has kind of settled, that was really disappointing. Overall, I didnt think we played too badly except for our finishing which was, once again, very poor.

 

The tone was set in the first 90 seconds when we should have been 1 nil up. I dont care how old a player is, what position he plays but, that chance that fell to Milner should have been buried. Not that Im blaming Milner, I think if that chance falls to anyone else in the team at the moment, they miss. And that's worrying.

 

Looking at the game, they had 2 chances. Zaha scored the first and missed the 2nd when he really should have scored. Not sure if Nunez was on the pitch at that time.

 

Speaking of which, Nunez let himself down and got suckered into getting sent off. Maybe it's the South American temprement but you cant stick the nut on anyone and expect to stay on the pitch. He'll be lucky he doesnt get a further sanction for, shall we say, being reluctant to leave the pitch? Even Jurgen was screaming at him to get off the pitch once the card was shown. I guess the boy's going to get a bit of a talking to in the next few days.

 

His actions have really put the club in a difficult position for the next 3 games with Jota still out andBobby not exactly prolific in front of goal when he does play.

 

I just get the feeling Nunez is trying too hard to justify his fee. He seems to be snatching at everything and not playing with the freedom he did when he played against us for Benfica. Easier said than done but he just needs to play his natural game.

 

The first half looked like it was going to be one of those games where we dont score, case in point being Milner's early miss. We moved the ball around well and created a number of chances which really should have been buried.

 

Once Zaha scored though, I thought we were in trouble especially when Nunez should have scored but saw his shot come back off the inside of the post.

 

Things went from bad to worse when just before the hour, Nunez got his marching orders. It was hard to see where a goal would come from at that point because for all of Mo and Diaz's workrate, neither seemed to test the keeper.

 

But eventually, Diaz produced the spark we needed to get back in the game. Starting out of the left, he managed to beat about 5 Palace players with some neat footwork. Maybe the stood off him a little too much but the end result was he found an oportunity to get into a shooting position and let fly.

 

At that point, we looked like the team to win it (as I said, I cant remember whether Zaha's 2nd chance came before or after Nunez's sending off) but we could not find the breakthrough.

 

I said after the fulham game, if we played that at Anfield, we'd have won. Watching that game last night, now, Im not so certain. That must also be a worry for Jurgen now. 2 games in and we havent exactly lit up either.

 

 

[FrenchEyeGlass]

3 hours ago, etho said:

I think were getting carried away. We didn't play well v Fulham but still should have won, and we played fine last night but obviously circumstances went against us.

 

Some of the frustration I think is because this feeling we've already dropped points on Man city. Of course we have, but they will drop points and maybe we have to be realistic enough to painfully accept this year but if they're rolling off to rack up another 100 points, were not matching it. I think they will accumulate less overall though.

 

I think we're missing Mane, not so much in the position he played for us for years, left wing, as Diaz already took his spot there last year. But as a number 9 last year he was sensational, running in behind, hold up and link play, goals, he was a massive factor in us coming so close to a quadruple. I also think we're missing Jota and the goals and endeavour he provides, and that has put a burden onto Nunez far sooner than Klopp would have intended.

 

It is completely ridiculous the criticism he's getting after around 90 minutes competitive football. He's scored 2 and could have scored 5 or 6. He's clearly going to take some time to acclimatise, the step up to being a massive fee signing as a number 9 for us, from being at almeria and benfica for one season is massive. Can't defend him but it looks like the occasion got to him yesterday and his frustration boiled over. There are parallels with when Klopp signing lewandowski (albeit for comparitive peanuts) in that he was rough round the edges and needed to refine his game, but had all the attributes. When it all comes together we will go to another level. We're in a bit of transition right now 

 

 

 

But why? Why, after finishing 1 measly point behind them, should we be all meekly accepting that we're not going to win the title for another season? If the owners and the manager were serious about winning titles, they would have invested this summer sensibly and had us ready to roll from day 1. That doesn't mean we would not have dropped points, that happens, but we are currently dropping points because of awful squad planning and lack of investment. We are resorting to starting Milner as our started 8, that has nothing to do with Nunez, Mane or Haaland.

 

Another year wasting VVD, Allison and Salah's prime. Another year wasting Klopp's time here. You can't keep waiting for a point in the future, because before you know it, the things you're taking for granted aren't around anymore. If we don't do anything this year and Madrid come in for VVD, do you not think his head might begin to turn?

 

[Colonel Bumcunt]

18 hours ago, Colonel Bumcunt said:

Alisson is overrated. 

 

Stand by this. 

He's very good at times, but I look at what Courtois did in the CL final and I've never seen that from Ali.  

For that much money, I want a keeper saving that from Zaha last night, or the Mitrovic header last week.  

[Colonel Bumcunt]

5 hours ago, Peter Cormack said:

Yet another shit refereeing display from Tierney. Anderson was niggling and fouling  Nunez for the whole game. 

I want an £85m forward to be better than that.  Stronger, more clever, faster, anything.  For £85m I thought we bought someone with at least 1 of those things being superior to Joachim fucking Andersson. 

 

Few home truths wouldn't go amiss at the moment.  

 

Look, the league is done.  We're out, and we have to make our peace with that, I have, I suggest you do too.  And I think it's healthy for the PL to live with this reality that City have won the league before the end of August.  

 

What I want is for Klopp to get this team firing on all cylinders for the CL, to stop City winning it yet again. 

[Cij]

Despite having the highest xG across the league in the first two games, we have drawn twice and that is mainly due to poor finishing. We only managed to get 17% of our shots on target last night, which is pretty pathetic. It is not difficult to understand why we are struggling to find the net if four out of every five shots are off target. We have three goals to show for fifty shots so far this season! The first step to improving those figures is to start testing opposition keepers by getting the ball on target more often. A curled effort to the far top corner is fuck all use if it sails three foot wide as you can't pick up a rebound from that... 

 

Separately, the build-up play was much too pedestrian against Palace and Fulham . The centre backs were too slow and inaccurate moving the ball across the back line and into midfield. Passing in those areas is not about moving the ball but rather moving their players and changing their defensive shape. We failed to stretch Palace as we should have as we didn't pass it well enough until Joe Gomez was introduced. This was compounded by Fabinho's repeated failure to receive the ball on the half-turn, which meant it was constantly recycled with no real purpose. The only midfielder consistently adopting a progressive body position when showing for passes was Harvey Elliott. This is where we missed a Thiago or Gini as they are excellent at that part of the game. 

 

I having growing concerns about whatever tactical experiment we are employing with Trent. Since last Christmas he has clearly been instructed to position himself as an auxiliary midfielder when we attack. However, this change coincided with his productivity reducing markedly - he only made half the number of assists in the second half of last season relative to the first. We have lost a lot of width by him coming inside and that is making us easier to defend against as the opposition can keep their defence and midfield narrower. The lack of overlapping runs means Salah is having to beat an extra player to get his shots off and I suspect that has contributed to his reduced goal return. Trent is also crossing the ball from a deeper position, which is much easier to defend.

 

We won't be buying more players at this stage so the solution to our current problems lie in getting back to basics. Full backs high and wide again and a big effort to ensure more shots are aimed within the frame of the goal. Our start to the season has been frustrating as fuck and the less said about Darwin Nunez's brain fart the better.

[3 Stacks]

16 minutes ago, Cij said:

Despite having the highest xG across the league in the first two games, we have drawn twice and that is mainly due to poor finishing. We only managed to get 17% of our shots on target last night, which is pretty pathetic. It is not difficult to understand why we are struggling to find the net if four out of every five shots are off target. We have three goals to show for fifty shots so far this season! The first step to improving those figures is to start testing opposition keepers by getting the ball on target more often. A curled effort to the far top corner is fuck all use if it sails three foot wide as you can't pick up a rebound from that... 

 

Separately, the build-up play was much too pedestrian against Palace and Fulham . The centre backs were too slow and inaccurate moving the ball across the back line and into midfield. Passing in those areas is not about moving the ball but rather moving their players and changing their defensive shape. We failed to stretch Palace as we should have as we didn't pass it well enough until Joe Gomez was introduced. This was compounded by Fabinho's repeated failure to receive the ball on the half-turn, which meant it was constantly recycled with no real purpose. The only midfielder consistently adopting a progressive body position when showing for passes was Harvey Elliott. This is where we missed a Thiago or Gini as they are excellent at that part of the game. 

 

I having growing concerns about whatever tactical experiment we are employing with Trent. Since last Christmas he has clearly been instructed to position himself as an auxiliary midfielder when we attack. However, this change coincided with his productivity reducing markedly - he only made half the number of assists in the second half of last season relative to the first. We have lost a lot of width by him coming inside and that is making us easier to defend against as the opposition can keep their defence and midfield narrower. The lack of overlapping runs means Salah is having to beat an extra player to get his shots off and I suspect that has contributed to his reduced goal return. Trent is also crossing the ball from a deeper position, which is much easier to defend.

 

We won't be buying more players at this stage so the solution to our current problems lie in getting back to basics. Full backs high and wide again and a big effort to ensure more shots are aimed within the frame of the goal. Our start to the season has been frustrating as fuck and the less said about Darwin Nunez's brain fart the better.

Nunez is responsible for over half that number. It's pretty nuts a) how good he's been at getting in positions, but b) how much we've relied on him to score so early on this season. 

[TheHowieLama]

15 hours ago, Colonel Bumcunt said:

I'd play him as a CM.  I said this last season, he's got the raw ingredients of a KDB.  

It's like when Angel Di Maria was put into CM at United and he was just brilliant. 

 

 

35 minutes ago, Colonel Bumcunt said:

Stand by this. 

He's very good at times, but I look at what Courtois did in the CL final and I've never seen that from Ali.  

For that much money, I want a keeper saving that from Zaha last night, or the Mitrovic header last week.  

 

26 minutes ago, Colonel Bumcunt said:

I want an £85m forward to be better than that.  Stronger, more clever, faster, anything.  For £85m I thought we bought someone with at least 1 of those things being superior to Joachim fucking Andersson. 

 

Few home truths wouldn't go amiss at the moment.  

 

Look, the league is done.  We're out, and we have to make our peace with that, I have, I suggest you do too.  And I think it's healthy for the PL to live with this reality that City have won the league before the end of August.  

 

What I want is for Klopp to get this team firing on all cylinders for the CL, to stop City winning it yet again. 

The upfront fee of £64m will rise to £85m should Nunez reach a number of milestones outlined in his agreement, which range from scoring goals to winning the Champions League.

 

There is only so much stupid a guy can live with. Too much stupid here.

[Bobby Hundreds]

28 minutes ago, Cij said:

Despite having the highest xG across the league in the first two games, we have drawn twice and that is mainly due to poor finishing. We only managed to get 17% of our shots on target last night, which is pretty pathetic. It is not difficult to understand why we are struggling to find the net if four out of every five shots are off target. We have three goals to show for fifty shots so far this season! The first step to improving those figures is to start testing opposition keepers by getting the ball on target more often. A curled effort to the far top corner is fuck all use if it sails three foot wide as you can't pick up a rebound from that... 

 

Separately, the build-up play was much too pedestrian against Palace and Fulham . The centre backs were too slow and inaccurate moving the ball across the back line and into midfield. Passing in those areas is not about moving the ball but rather moving their players and changing their defensive shape. We failed to stretch Palace as we should have as we didn't pass it well enough until Joe Gomez was introduced. This was compounded by Fabinho's repeated failure to receive the ball on the half-turn, which meant it was constantly recycled with no real purpose. The only midfielder consistently adopting a progressive body position when showing for passes was Harvey Elliott. This is where we missed a Thiago or Gini as they are excellent at that part of the game. 

 

I having growing concerns about whatever tactical experiment we are employing with Trent. Since last Christmas he has clearly been instructed to position himself as an auxiliary midfielder when we attack. However, this change coincided with his productivity reducing markedly - he only made half the number of assists in the second half of last season relative to the first. We have lost a lot of width by him coming inside and that is making us easier to defend against as the opposition can keep their defence and midfield narrower. The lack of overlapping runs means Salah is having to beat an extra player to get his shots off and I suspect that has contributed to his reduced goal return. Trent is also crossing the ball from a deeper position, which is much easier to defend.

 

We won't be buying more players at this stage so the solution to our current problems lie in getting back to basics. Full backs high and wide again and a big effort to ensure more shots are aimed within the frame of the goal. Our start to the season has been frustrating as fuck and the less said about Darwin Nunez's brain fart the better.

Yeah I'm not liking this Trent role, I dont know the thinking behind it. We seem to make the pitch so congested we huff and puff, when we do manage to create an opening we snatch at it. Our shooting is horrific. I dont know sometimes shit just runs its course I think our high line being so high feels more of a weakness than a strength lately. Every side does analytics now there's been nothing from the teams scoring against us that I've thought that's a work of genius. Even yesterday it was inevitable they get one chance and score you could see it a mile off. Again our shooting was comical fuck knows what's going on there its beyond abysmal. You don't throw the baby out with the bath water but this side needs tweaks.

[gkmacca]

My heart sank when the game started and Palace sank nine players deep into their half. If that's a cup tie against a lower league team, fine, but this is a league that keeps telling us how great all the squads are and what a great standard of football is played, and yet this is what about six or seven teams do every fucking week unless they're playing each other: non-football posing as 'clever' tactics. It's the equivalent of a debating society in which one group just keeps saying 'That's what yer ma says' as a response. There's nothing clever about parking the bus: we've all worked out that 'shape' when we were kids in the infant school's playground. You don't need a coaching badge to set up a team like that. I think last season was probably the worst yet, and if last night was anything to go by, this season will be even worse.

 

You can't stop it but there's no reason to indulge it. That's what really irritates me. Time-wasting is an offence. It's not an optional thing for refs to consider or ignore. It's an offence. It should be penalised when it first happens - in the first half. If players want to keep lying on the floor, make them go off the pitch. If they try to hold players every time they threaten to get away, book them for that, too. Most of these 'efforts' would disintegrate if only refs actually penalised cheating. 

 

The ref last night clearly saw and ignored about thirty time-wasting instances by the keeper, and yet he waited until the 90th minute before booking him, when his job was done. That's a disgrace. Even Gooner-bore Alan Smith said  straight after the booking, 'He'll do it some more now'. It's just a depressing joke. I don't want to sit through that crap any more. I'm done.

[The Golden Eel]

1 hour ago, FrenchEyeGlass said:

 

If we don't do anything this year and Madrid come in for VVD, do you not think his head might begin to turn?

 

Well, he'd certainly need to be imporving his performances for that to happen as he's played a part in two of the three goals we've conceded in the league so far. Poor penalty conceded last week and not sure what he was doing last night either.

[Carra_is_legend]

5 minutes ago, gkmacca said:

My heart sank when the game started and Palace sank nine players deep into their half. If that's a cup tie against a lower league team, fine, but this is a league that keeps telling us how great all the squads are and what a great standard of football is played, and yet this is what about six or seven teams do every fucking week unless they're playing each other: non-football posing as 'clever' tactics. It's the equivalent of a debating society in which one group just keeps saying 'That's what yer ma says' as a response. There's nothing clever about parking the bus: we've all worked out that 'shape' when we were kids in the infant school's playground. You don't need a coaching badge to set up a team like that. I think last season was probably the worst yet, and if last night was anything to go by, this season will be even worse.

 

You can't stop it but there's no reason to indulge it. That's what really irritates me. Time-wasting is an offence. It's not an optional thing for refs to consider or ignore. It's an offence. It should be penalised when it first happens - in the first half. If players want to keep lying on the floor, make them go off the pitch. If they try to hold players every time they threaten to get away, book them for that, too. Most of these 'efforts' would disintegrate if only refs actually penalised cheating. 

 

The ref last night clearly saw and ignored about thirty time-wasting instances by the keeper, and yet he waited until the 90th minute before booking him, when his job was done. That's a disgrace. Even Gooner-bore Alan Smith said  straight after the booking, 'He'll do it some more now'. It's just a depressing joke. I don't want to sit through that crap any more. I'm done.

Totally agree on the time wasting, it goes back a long way. Even the Gerrard slip Chelsea game, Chelsea came to Anfield with one & only intention - stop us from winning the game and waste as much time as possible. They did that from the first minute to the last - not just their GK but every single one of them. If the referee had taken a decision in the first half hour to book Ashley Cole (as an example) at the very least it would have given them a message that the referee is not fucking around. But he didn't and they carried on doing it.

 

Yesterday was the same. If the referee books the keeper in the first half hour then he doesn't do that again. If the referee books him around 80th minute then he does it more 'cos he has the safety net of having just got booked. Not booking until the 90th minute is beyond the pale and Klopp is too decent to call it out.

 

I don't agree with you on teams sitting back though - its our own problem to solve. Palace could have easily won yesterday so from there point of view, yes it doesn't make a good viewing, but why should they entertain people to get hammered 4 or 5 nil ? This is where we need that creativity and pace in midfield which we are adamant of not buying.