Freedom of speech

[SasaS]

Yes, agreed, but how is the law worded to take into context their roles? Is there a named series of jobs that you are allowed to say what you like? Others where what you say, who you say it to, and where you say it is clearly prohibited?

 

This is a dickhead using YouTube the most popular broadcasting medium in the world, what if it had been a bloke suspected of having Isis links using YouTube to say the same things?

 

I don't know if you need to list the roles and occupations, surely it would be enough to describe it as a context anyone with legal training should be able to interpret?  If the ISIS bloke identifies himself or is linked with ISIS, this provides some context for his speech, the real question would be if the ISIS bloke makes exactly the same video, with the same explanation of intent, i.e. the same "joke" to piss off his girlfriend, would we look at it differently. Or if the comedian in question was already linked with other unambiguously  hateful material, so it would become obvious he has produced the whole thing just to be able to keep repeating "gas the Jews" with impunity.

 

So, I don't know how would you write laws to cover it, on the other hand, you probably don't need to, because judges seem to be able to understand a difference between bad jokes, satire and deliberate offense.

 

The fact that it's on You Tube I don't find particularly relevant (again, not a legal expert).

 

[cloggypop]

Punching nazis stopped Richard Spencer touring. Direct result.

[moof]

Obviously it's not going to happen but it's a hypothetical question.

Ok, well I probably wouldn’t be up for killing them, but could we at least send them to live on the Isle of Man or something?

[Numero Veinticinco]

You’re probably right, of course. Punching nazis probably doesn’t do much other than make martyrs of them and rally idiots to the cause, as well as provide another clear enemy on which to focus their ire (anti fascists are the REAL fascists, they want to get rid of free speech etc)

 

I’m just saying from a personal perspective, I have zero empathy for any racist, bigot, hate monger who gets attacked for attempting to cause harm to civilised society, and comparing their ‘freedom’ to act in such a way - to someone’s freedom to protest against it - is dangerously wrong, in my view.

Yeah, they're cunts and if I'm honest when I see one get a slap I couldn't give a shit they're nasty cunts. That said, they need protecting because they're pricks with a voice and so am I and... well, that's the price you pay. And you're dead right, using violence to oppress their views is not the right way to go about saying we don't like violent oppression. It's a tool we don't need to give them.

[General Dryness]

Ok, well I probably wouldn’t be up for killing them, but could we at least send them to live on the Isle of Man or something?

They'd love it. The place is right wing as fuck.

[Pureblood]

It leaves me a bit itchy, all of this.

 

 

I think there's a valid debate about whether it's right to criminalise this sort of behaviour and whether the statute in question is well written, etc.  On the other hand they say ignorance of the law is no excuse.  As AngryofTuebrook says, I'm glad it's not me making these decisions.  

 

I can totally understand why the Judge found him guilty, though, on the basis of the case before him, having watched the video and then hearing the evidence of Borowski.  Then you have, in my view, a very flimsy legal defence of trying to annoy his girlfriend.  Although he mentions this in the video, he does so in the third person.  If it was solely intended for her he would address her personally when talking to the camera, use different pronouns and so on.  He then goes and shares it on youtube, further undermining his defence that it was an "in-joke" type thing between him and his girlfriend.   

[Boss]

That's simply, demonstrably untrue.

 

 

2.15 onwards.

[Boss]

Ok, well I probably wouldn’t be up for killing them, but could we at least send them to live on the Isle of Man or something?

 

So you draw the line at killing them but beating them up is okay?

[Rico1304]

He's just giving evidence, though, and that line in particular is clearly subjective opinion. It's the judge who makes the call.

 

With regard to the McCanns, they have not been shy when it comes to enforcing their legal rights. The problem for them is that if they go in too hard, they open themselves up to a line of questioning under Oath they might not be comfortable with in respect of Madeleine's fate.

You’ve gone full mong.

[Pureblood]

You’ve gone full mong.

 

 

What did you find objectionable this time?

[Rico1304]

Punching nazis stopped Richard Spencer touring. Direct result.

No one knew who the fuck he was until he got punched.

[Rico1304]

What did you find objectionable this time?

You owning a keyboard and having just enough nowse to use it.

[Jose Jones]

I don't know if you need to list the roles and occupations, surely it would be enough to describe it as a context anyone with legal training should be able to interpret? If the ISIS bloke identifies himself or is linked with ISIS, this provides some context for his speech, the real question would be if the ISIS bloke makes exactly the same video, with the same explanation of intent, i.e. the same "joke" to piss off his girlfriend, would we look at it differently. Or if the comedian in question was already linked with other unambiguously hateful material, so it would become obvious he has produced the whole thing just to be able to keep repeating "gas the Jews" with impunity.

 

So, I don't know how would you write laws to cover it, on the other hand, you probably don't need to, because judges seem to be able to understand a difference between bad jokes, satire and deliberate offense.

 

The fact that it's on You Tube I don't find particularly relevant (again, not a legal expert).

I think YouTube is relevant because it demonstrably reaches so many people, whereas printing two pamphlets would not have the same potential effect.

 

Anyway, I agree with pretty much everything there, which is to say that it is just this particular case that the judge has decided that the dude has deliberately decided to widely offend in a racist manner.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2JA52j7guw

 

2.15 onwards.

Some gobby numpty in a large and diverse group of people laughs at a Nazi who had come to the city with the stated intention of attacking Muslims, provoking a backlash and inciting a race war?

 

Like I said, the idea that anti-Fascists are somehow as bad as Fascists is demonstrably untrue. Very, very few anti-Fascists go looking for a fight and just about none will intimidate any innocent bystanders.

[Pureblood]

You owning a keyboard and having just enough nowse to use it.

 

 

Play the ball, not the man.  What didn't you like in that post?

[Rico1304]

What’s the name of the Nazi bloke who loved the fighting and then someone spoke to him and changed his mind. Now goes to prisons and such rehabilitating Nazis.

 

It’s fucked up that the lefties want bans and punching.

[Pureblood]

He probably won't do time for this, anyway.   The criminal record won't be a good look but he'll get something like community service, I reckon.

 

If he gets sent down I'll be very surprised.  Unless he has previous.  

[AngryOfTuebrook]

What’s the name of the Nazi bloke who loved the fighting and then someone spoke to him and changed his mind. Now goes to prisons and such rehabilitating Nazis.

 

It’s fucked up that the lefties want bans and punching.

"The lefties want bans and punching."

 

Obviously. All lefties are of one mind and oppression and violence are the only things we want.

[Pidge]

No one knew who the fuck he was until he got punched.

 

Except the news agency interviewing him, the person punching him and a fair number of people both attending and protesting the event marking the inauguration...

[Rico1304]

Except the news agency interviewing him, the person punching him and a fair number of people both attending and protesting the event marking the inauguration...

He was nothing before this happened. Now you and I, 5000 miles away from the US know him and could recognise him. If we can all the right wing nutcases will know all about him and the shite he speaks.

[Rico1304]

But we are all clear we can punch our pet Commie Hades? He’s got a list of people he’d kill or imprison so that’s fair game surely?

[Boss]

Some gobby numpty in a large and diverse group of people laughs at a Nazi who had come to the city with the stated intention of attacking Muslims, provoking a backlash and inciting a race war?

 

Like I said, the idea that anti-Fascists are somehow as bad as Fascists is demonstrably untrue. Very, very few anti-Fascists go looking for a fight and just about none will intimidate any innocent bystanders.

 

It's not just one person though, is it? You can hear large groups singing "if it wasn't for the bizzies you'd be dead" on a few different videos, plus you can see police officers injured by projectiles thrown by Antifa in others. You can't deny that there's a contingent of Antifa that turn up with the sole intention of intimidating and committing violence against these marchers.

[Pureblood]

But we are all clear we can punch our pet Commie Hades? He’s got a list of people he’d kill or imprison so that’s fair game surely?

 

 

Unfortunately for you, Hades doesn't live in Scotland.

 

Just for the Record*, neither do I.

 

*see what I did there?

[Rico1304]

Unfortunately for you, Hades doesn't live in Scotland.

 

Just for the Record*, neither do I.

 

*see what I did there?

But I can punch him because he wants me dead, he’s said it loads. He literally has a list of people he wants to kill because of their views. Can I punch him?

 

Yes, you admitted I was right.

[Pureblood]

But I can punch him because he wants me dead, he’s said it loads. He literally has a list of people he wants to kill because of their views. Can I punch him?

 

Yes, you admitted I was right.

 

 

I definitely think you should try punching a few people, yeah.