Agger: Rodgers doesn't think I'm good enough

[Jairzinho]

Given that it's his first season, he's been very good for us. He can play, and he's stronger and faster than our other CBs. He will improve next year, and he will be first choice.

 

The interesting conversation is about the other CB slot. I suspect if Louvren does come in, we'll see him play in Skrtels position, with the odd game deputising for Sakho if he's injured or needs resting.

 

Isn't Lovren left footed?

 

Playing two left footers at CB isn't allowed.

 

Not that I'd want him to play ahead of Skrtel anyway.

[stringvest]

Yes, but can play at RCB too.

 

[Brigant Moloch]

it's not the matter of being left or right footed, it's about the side they play, Agger and Sakho are both left sided, Skrtel is right sided etc etc, all best centre backs play only one side, Thiago Silva for axample is right footed but plays left side only, Lovren can play both because he was trained that way but he's just average 

[stringvest]

Perhaps. I dont know much about him.

[Guest LFD]

By dropping deep and picking the wrong pass? There must be a reason why Rodgers was switching haphazardly between Agger and Sakho, particularly when it came to the potentially title deciding Toon game on the last day.

 

He swapped Sakho when he was injured.  

 

I think Agger played vs Newcastle as a goodbye.  No other reason why he was dropped for Agger, as the three goals conceded vs Palace were not his fault - Flanagan, Skrtel and particularly Johnson were the fault for them.

 

The "dropping deep" argument is almost as lazy as the "he makes me nervous" one.  All our centre backs dropped deep last season, he was not alone in that.  This suggests it is what Rodgers wants, as it happened when we took the lead in games all season.  Sakho was the only one who looked comfortable doing it though, as he wasn't costing us goal by doing so.

 

So we have the arguments against:

 

1) "He takes risks" - despite the passing stats saying otherwise.

2) "He drops deep" - all our centre backs did this.

3) "He makes me feel nervous" - Yet he made less mistakes than our other centre backs.

 

All ridiculously weak arguments.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

That 'picking the wrong pass' nonsense is baffling. It has been a long while since I've seen a CB pick as many well judged passes as Sakho. 

[stringvest]

That 'picking the wrong pass' nonsense is baffling. It has been a long while since I've seen a CB pick as many well judged passes as Sakho.

Bang on.

 

[alexjames]

That 'picking the wrong pass' nonsense is baffling. It has been a long while since I've seen a CB pick as many well judged passes as Sakho. 

True. And it's also backed up by this article:

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-season-review-statistical-7169842#.U4G1GR6GfsI.facebook

 

"The French international’s tackling accuracy figures of 93% are the best at the club while  he also led the way in passing accuracy (92%)."

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Bang on.

I don't mind people having favourites, it's natural, but why would you make things up about other players when they're evidently not true. These people surely can't believe what they're saying?

[stringvest]

It's when the adoration of the character overtakes and obfuscates the reality.  It happens to people on the internet, usually over 'meh' players as well.  It's unhealthy.  

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

True. And it's also backed up by this article:

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-season-review-statistical-7169842#.U4G1GR6GfsI.facebook

 

"The French international’s tackling accuracy figures of 93% are the best at the club while he also led the way in passing accuracy (92%)."

Not just the accuracy but the choice of pass. He often makes a pass that splits the midfield and takes the opposition's attack and midfield out of the game.

[Clem H Fandango]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=YflS479W9SM

 

 

At his best.

[Russ Atmosphere]

Genuine question, did the Agger Skrtel partnership do better in the league than the Sakho Skrtel partnership in terms of less goals conceded per minutes played?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Genuine question, did the Agger Skrtel partnership do better in the league than the Sakho Skrtel partnership in terms of less goals conceded per minutes played?

 

Yes, it did. I'd say much of that was because most of those games were at home and always against opposition that wasn't top four. As it turns out, playing as  CB against Arsenal, Chelsea, and City away is more difficult than Fulham, Norwich and Cardiff at home. Also, there's the factor that Skrtel and Agger know each others games better. For me, no matter what the CB pairing, there's still issues. One of those issues, for all the good things he did, is Skrtel. The others are the fullbacks. After all, Agger and Skrtel played together in games where we conceded too many, for example Fulham 2-3, Swansea 4-3, Cardiff 6-3, Norwich 2-3. There are issues with the defence, but Sakho isn't one of them. You can't bring one player into a unit of 5/6 and expect it to function much differently. 

[Jairzinho]

The manager and goalkeeper are the biggest issue defensively.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

The manager and goalkeeper are the biggest issue defensively.

 

Disagree. In every possible way, even the ones I don't know about yet.

[Russ Atmosphere]

I'm not much impressed with our starters across the back five, and if Sakho is going to be better long term than either Agger or Skrtel that's great because it looks like Rodgers doesn't trust Agger, who has seemingly peaked, and probably is only slightly more trusting of Skrtel. I think Sakho deserves time in a settled centre-back pairing, and to settle into the country. A year is usually needed by most foreign players. Having good fullbacks is surely going to be the key to a less porous defence next year, and I'd start the keeper search now too, Mignolet surely isn't good enough to maintain where we are in the league.

[Pureblood]

The manager and goalkeeper are the biggest issue defensively.

 

Agreed.

[Guest LFD]

The manager and goalkeeper are the biggest issue defensively.

 

I agree that the GK is an issue.

 

I don't have much a problem with the way we set up.  The centre backs are slightly too deep for my liking.  But must of the goals we have conceded have been individual basic mistakes, not down to the system or approach.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

But must of the goals we have conceded have been individual basic mistakes, not down to the system or approach.

 

Exactly, and it's not because the manager has us playing football that's too attacking (just look at most of our conceded goals, and how many people we have back - often 7 or 8) that they're making mistakes, it's because they're prone to it. Sure, we're more open than Chelsea for example, but we don't need to concede many of the goals that we have. Stopping crosses coming in is a big issue because two of the three CBs aren't very good at dealing with that. 

[Jairzinho]

I agree that the GK is an issue.

 

I don't have much a problem with the way we set up.  The centre backs are slightly too deep for my liking.  But must of the goals we have conceded have been individual basic mistakes, not down to the system or approach.

 

I think we have to defend so deep because of the keeper. An individual dictating the system, which in turn makes it more likely to see individual mistakes from others. Our centrebacks have to do defend more situations, and generally a bigger area, than many other top sides.

 

Can you imagine someone like Courtois commanding the whole 18 yard box, rather than struggling with his 6 yard box. We'd see far fewer mistakes from defenders.

[Guest LFD]

I think we have to defend so deep because of the keeper. An individual dictating the system, which in turn makes it more likely to see individual mistakes from others. Our centrebacks have to do defend more situations, and generally a bigger area, than many other top sides.

 

Can you imagine someone like Courtois commanding the whole 18 yard box, rather than struggling with his 6 yard box. We'd see far fewer mistakes from defenders.

 

I agree with you.  I think a commanding GK would make a big difference.

 

However I think Mignolet probably deserved another season on the whole.  But if we have the same issues next season, then we'll have to get a new keeper.  Vorm won't exactly be the answer to that issue.  

 

I think the tactics are to defend deep when we are leading and hit teams on the break.  But that doesn't mean defending near the GK.  We have to clear the box, as Carragher highlighted after the game vs Palace.

[Jairzinho]

Aye, agreed.

[stringvest]

The whole defensive issue is broader than just one player, whether it's the goalkeeper, Agger, or whoever. We play a different style of football to the Benitez days, where we would often play with two fairly regimented lines of players across the pitch, and usually fewer ahead of the ball. As a consequence, we would be in a position to have two lines across the park to defend, and the midfield close to the back line. These days, the midfield is closer to the front line than the back. If we do not retrieve the ball quickly, we are often exposed between the MF and the back line. This is exacerbated by the fact that we play our full backs further forward.

 

Our defence is more exposed than before, as we ask our midfield to take a much more active role in attacking and pressing the opposition high up the pitch. As we have seen countless times, with countless teams, it is possible for some very average players to defend very effectively as a unit providing they are well drilled and given adequate protection. That usually means compromises in other areas of the pitch. Houllier and Benitez took this approach more often than not. Rodgers doesn't. If we can find the calibre of defender that can play in his more exposed defence, then that will be perfect.

[polymerpunkah]

Is signing Can (assuming it happens) an indication that Rodgers might be making some adjustments to the formation/approach?

 

Or at least it gives him the flexibility to make adjustments to the formation, depending on opposition, etc.

 

Or is he "one for the future"?