CROSSING THE WHITE LINE....

[Randy Marsh]

I just want to make a point about not just tonights game, but basically the past 2months of football since Derby 6-0. I know its now commonplace in football for the manager to be the one who is the fall guy when things crumble, a la sammy lee, martin jol (soon), but should this really be the case?

Rafa has picked teams which, IMO, in every game since Derby, have been good enough to go out and win the game, comfortably in most cases. That generally hasnt been the case. Look at tonight as the prime example, attack minded team, 2 pacey wingers, gerrard down the middle, nothing to argue about really. it was clear we were in istanbul for the win.

 

That didnt happen, one fluke of an own goal put the whole game plan up the shitter. But its hard not to agree that for the remaining 75minutes we absolutely dominated the game, as was the case against the blueshite. Surely this shows to people who are now calling for Rafas head that, maybe, it isnt the managers fault. Rafa picks his team, but when they cross the white line there is little he can do. He cant put the ball in the net, he has to trust his players to do this. He has to trust them to go out and get the job done, and sadly, alot of his men are letting him down at the moment.

 

So instead of us all constantly looking to Rafa to blame when we have a bad result, lets buck the trend, and for once hold the players accountable for whats going on! Its a sad case in football that men who are paid stupid sums of money are relieved of all responsibility. Bullshit! Lets hold the players accountable for once! Im ashamed of some members of our squad at the moment, no responsibility, and most importantly no heart! Things need to change, players need to start performing for the manager who brought them here to play for us, and giving a little back, instead of hiding, in the knowledge that should Rafa be the fall guy, theyll still have their 4year contract to fall back on!

[Anny Road]

Ive held many managerial sales roles and had sales manager work under me.

When one team is underperforming I got the excuses of poor territory, weak staff, lack of support, etc etc.

 

When I put the top performing manager in control of the poor team guess what sales doubled team moral improved and everyone was happy.

 

That is except the poor bastards in the previously best team who now had the shithouse manager running them.

 

There is a moral in there somewhere. Think of it as a proverb.

[lifetime fan]

Double glazing and football management are a tiny little bit different though.

[Anny Road]

Im not talking double glazing but the principles of team motivation apply wherever you work.

[lifetime fan]

Im not talking double glazing but the principles of team motivation apply wherever you work.

 

Apologies, that was a shitty reply.

 

the principles of team motivation are variable depending on the team and the environment though. I'm sure Dirk or Jari37 would agree with me.

[Hermes]

Ive held many managerial sales roles and had sales manager work under me.

When one team is underperforming I got the excuses of poor territory, weak staff, lack of support, etc etc.

 

When I put the top performing manager in control of the poor team guess what sales doubled team moral improved and everyone was happy.

 

That is except the poor bastards in the previously best team who now had the shithouse manager running them.

 

There is a moral in there somewhere. Think of it as a proverb.

 

Exactly. Chelsea, Bolton and Charlton for example.

[andy8ball]

You can have the best players (but not necessarily the best team) but making them play together and perform as a unit is something completely different.

 

I'm not going to make any judgement tonight as I'm sitting in a hotel room in Germany and not seen the game. But it's clear (and look at the national team as an example) that the manager sets the tactics and motivates the team. Money shouldn't make a difference - I mean, what's the difference between 80k a week and 150k a week (please don't reply 70k). It's all absurdly high salaries and it's then up to the manager to instill the desire to win.

 

Anyway, I'm pished and ready for sleep!

[Anny Road]

No offence taken but to use an example.

I had a young lad working for us. We were selling into the medical proffesion. He was a post grad med student who decided medicine was not for him but still wanted to earn top money.

He was a top performer but a bit of a cunt and would challenge his manager at every possible opportunity.

Rather than confront him we decided to double his basic salary and fast track him to a senior post.

We never heard a peep out of him from that day on. We got another 18 months sales from him and he went on to run a top team. I left a long time ago but I would imagine he is a partner by now.

Point is a lot of my collegues wanted him binned he was that much of a cunt.

 

There is a way to manage anyone you just have to be prepared to adapt and drop your ego.

 

Can Senor Benitez do this I am yet to be convinced.

[Randy Marsh]

I can see your point Anny Road, and i agree to an extent, but i think this is a total different situation. Rafa has been here just over 3years and has achieved well over our highest expectations. We are still unbeaten in the league and still have a chance of qualifying in champions league, so maybe things arent as bad as we are all making out . But from what you have said, any player in our squad who doesnt feel motivated playing for Liverpool FC, FUCK OFF! Simple as. Im sure you and I, and many others, would give our right bollock to go out there and die for the shirt. Rafa has more than earnt his time, and his respect, and anyone not willing to give 100% for that cause can fuck off as far as im concerned. Im with the manager 100%. There is only so much he can do, certain players need to start paying his trust back.

 

Apologies if ive missed your point or anything mate, got a few Kronenborg in me trying to numb the pain

[Anny Road]

Players who get a contract worth x amount can get into a comfort zone.(crouch kewell etc)

Whilst the shirt may be motivation enough for me and you a top manager should be able to get these players to be the best they can.

[andy8ball]

I can see your point Anny Road, and i agree to an extent, but i think this is a total different situation. Rafa has been here just over 3years and has achieved well over our highest expectations. We are still unbeaten in the league and still have a chance of qualifying in champions league, so maybe things arent as bad as we are all making out . But from what you have said, any player in our squad who doesnt feel motivated playing for Liverpool FC, FUCK OFF! Simple as. Im sure you and I, and many others, would give our right bollock to go out there and die for the shirt. Rafa has more than earnt his time, and his respect, and anyone not willing to give 100% for that cause can fuck off as far as im concerned. Im with the manager 100%. There is only so much he can do, certain players need to start paying his trust back.

 

Apologies if ive missed your point or anything mate, got a few Kronenborg in me trying to numb the pain

 

Not understanding your point about any of us giving our right bollock (I'd give both) as we are FANS! Players are in this as a business (in the main) not to give their all to the cause.

 

I think the point Anny was trying to make is that you can think a member of the team is a right bell-end but if they produce the results then it's worth managing them in a different way. If I'm talking cock then it's the result of dodgy German beer.

[lifetime fan]

No offence taken but to use an example.

I had a young lad working for us. We were selling into the medical proffesion. He was a post grad med student who decided medicine was not for him but still wanted to earn top money.

He was a top performer but a bit of a cunt and would challenge his manager at every possible opportunity.

Rather than confront him we decided to double his basic salary and fast track him to a senior post.

We never heard a peep out of him from that day on. We got another 18 months sales from him and he went on to run a top team. I left a long time ago but I would imagine he is a partner by now.

Point is a lot of my collegues wanted him binned he was that much of a cunt.

 

There is a way to manage anyone you just have to be prepared to adapt and drop your ego.

 

Can Senor Benitez do this I am yet to be convinced.

 

 

I can understand that, but like I said team motivational skills are situation and context based.

 

For example would Harry Redknap be as good a manager with a chairmen who didn't want his club tarnished with bungs and he couldn't motivate the players at his disposal with the carrot and stick approach of large signing on fee's and short term contracts?

[andy8ball]

I can understand that, but like I said team motivational skills are situation and context based.

 

For example would Harry Redknap be as good a manager with a chairmen who didn't want his club tarnished with bungs and he couldn't motivate the players at his disposal with the carrot and stick approach of large signing on fee's and short term contracts?

 

Seriously, do you think most chairman care how success is generated?

[lifetime fan]

Seriously, do you think most chairman care how success is generated?

 

I hope to fuck ours are! Don't you?

[andy8ball]

i'd love to think that everything we do is above board and without reproach but let me ask you this...if we won the title this year and then it emerged that we'd signed Torres in a "dodgy" way...would you be bothered?

 

Getting a little bit off subject now!

[Alonso]

I just want to make a point about not just tonights game, but basically the past 2months of football since Derby 6-0. I know its now commonplace in football for the manager to be the one who is the fall guy when things crumble, a la sammy lee, martin jol (soon), but should this really be the case?

Rafa has picked teams which, IMO, in every game since Derby, have been good enough to go out and win the game, comfortably in most cases. That generally hasnt been the case. Look at tonight as the prime example, attack minded team, 2 pacey wingers, gerrard down the middle, nothing to argue about really. it was clear we were in istanbul for the win.

 

That didnt happen, one fluke of an own goal put the whole game plan up the shitter. But its hard not to agree that for the remaining 75minutes we absolutely dominated the game, as was the case against the blueshite. Surely this shows to people who are now calling for Rafas head that, maybe, it isnt the managers fault. Rafa picks his team, but when they cross the white line there is little he can do. He cant put the ball in the net, he has to trust his players to do this. He has to trust them to go out and get the job done, and sadly, alot of his men are letting him down at the moment.

 

So instead of us all constantly looking to Rafa to blame when we have a bad result, lets buck the trend, and for once hold the players accountable for whats going on! Its a sad case in football that men who are paid stupid sums of money are relieved of all responsibility. Bullshit! Lets hold the players accountable for once! Im ashamed of some members of our squad at the moment, no responsibility, and most importantly no heart! Things need to change, players need to start performing for the manager who brought them here to play for us, and giving a little back, instead of hiding, in the knowledge that should Rafa be the fall guy, theyll still have their 4year contract to fall back on!

 

I thought Rafa doesnt want his players to use the heart but the brain.

[lifetime fan]

i'd love to think that everything we do is above board and without reproach but let me ask you this...if we won the title this year and then it emerged that we'd signed Torres in a "dodgy" way...would you be bothered?

 

Getting a little bit off subject now!

 

Your right it is off subject and no I wouldn't be over the moon, I'm sensible enough though to realise no club is above reproach.

 

However there are levels of cuntishness.

[andy8ball]

Agreed, and hope it never gets to the level of the Chavs celebrating winning at any cost but chairmen are businessmen in the main and not fans. They (like many of the players at the top level) are in this for the return, not the glory.

 

unless you are a mad russian olygark(?) who is hell-bent on world domination.

[lifetime fan]

Agreed, and hope it never gets to the level of the Chavs celebrating winning at any cost but chairmen are businessmen in the main and not fans. They (like many of the players at the top level) are in this for the return, not the glory.

 

unless you are a mad russian olygark(?) who is hell-bent on world domination.

 

I agree, however I believe you lost the point I was trying to make. Team motivational skills are enviromental and context based, hence Redknapp would be useless at 'most' other clubs!

[andy8ball]

I agree, however I believe you lost the point I was trying to make. Team motivational skills are enviromental and context based, hence Redknapp would be useless at 'most' other clubs!

 

I don't know about that, in my experience you have motivational skills to whatever level, it doesn't tend to matter to the team you are preaching to.

 

Yes, I accept that 'Arry tends to pick certain types of player then get the most out of them but who is to say that if he was at a big club he couldn't do the same to the "big names". And maybe it's a bigger achievement to take unknowns and has-beens and make a relatively successful team out of them, than buy in superstars and finish below expectations?

 

Motivation comes from understanding your team and experience and you have it at different levels just like any other skill. Whether Rafa has this to the highest level is at question, in my humble opinion.

[fivetimes]

Benitez barely speaks to his players, he treats them like robots or cogs in his machine. Fine in principle but a lot of these lads need looking after. Sad but true. How does he motivate them?

[Red Sun Rising]

Benitez barely speaks to his players, he treats them like robots or cogs in his machine. Fine in principle but a lot of these lads need looking after. Sad but true. How does he motivate them?

 

Perhaps that is part of the problem. I have a hunch that Pako was good kop to rafa's bad cop. Just a thought - Sammy Lee for the #2 job?

[Randy Marsh]

I agree with what people are saying, maybe not being motivated etc, but i think i havnt explained my point well enough. For example, Rafa picks the team to go out and do a job. We 9/10 dominate games, and have done for a few years now, but we have had that same problem of not making the right choice in the crucial situations in front of goal, which has ultimately lead to us mainly drawing, but in last nights case, losing, games which really shouldve been wrapped up in the first half an hour.

 

What im saying is that Rafa cant physically put the the ball in the net, he has trust in players to do this. I can name countless examples, Gerrard and Voronin against Spurs when they pissed about in the box trying to score the perfect goal instead of one of them just fuckin lashing it. Benayoun last night, 6yards out, decides he wants to try and take it around 2 defenders and the goal keeper instead of having a crack at goal. Voronin last night, and on Saturday, numerous times. I wont bore everyone, but im sure you all know what i mean. When it comes down to the crucial match winning situation, more often than not we dont deliver the killer blow.

 

I genuinely dont think its down to motivation. Teams are not battering us, we are still playing how we have played all season in general, which shows that maybe its only one or 2 things missing. At the moment, the one man in our squad who has looked like he can put the ball in the net is Torres. Im sure the past few weeks have shown Rafa just how vital he is to this team. I would actualy throw Babel up with him, he looked good last night so lets frighten teams with some pace up front. Fuckin Voronin and Kuyt is not the answer. They constantly go backwards or sidewards, never forwards. Maybe one of them, but not both together.

 

Really think we have missed dan and xabi. Both ball playing players, who really connect the team well and make us flow, without them we look a little stale, tend to go for the long punt, totally bypassing midfield. Id give Mascher a rest as well, looking a bit out of sorts at the minute.