Coronavirus

[Jenson]

22 minutes ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

The inventor of PCR tests questioned that they shouldn't be used for checking for viruses because you can manipulate them to find what it is you want to find. Plus how do we know these tests are correct, they have no gold standard to be compared to.
 

As someone who uses RT-PCR regularly, it is an extremely accurate, sensitive and powerful technique when performed correctly, with well designed primers, proper controls and samples of sufficient quality. They can only be manipulated deliberately, will not detect other viruses if designed correctly and will not pick up dead virus as RNA as the genetic material is degraded extremely quickly.

This is not to say that they are infallible but the shortcomings in the accuracy/sensitivity rates will be much more to do with how samples are taken and how the PCR is prepared, than any problem with the technique itself.

I don't know the criteria that is applied to give a positive result but I can imagine that the quality of the actual swab tests taken is highly variable, and that when preparing the tests the need for speed will mean that the safeguards against contamination will be perhaps a little less stringent than I would use myself in the lab.

[Spy Bee]

13 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Because people are dying because of it. 

"It's them same anti-lockdown lot who are partly responsible for the continued spread. It's selfish arrogance. " 

 

Erm....

Holding an opinion and behaving in a certain fashion are not mutually exclusive. Lots of people don't agree with masks etc, but they still wear them.

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, Spy Bee said:

Holding an opinion and behaving in a certain fashion are not mutually exclusive. Lots of people don't agree with masks etc, but they still wear them.

Good on them, they are doing the right thing. I was referring to people won't follow the rules when I said those anti-lockdown let are partly to blame. Clearly. Not sure why that was so difficult for you. 

[Spy Bee]

4 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Good on them, they are doing the right thing. I was referring to people won't follow the rules when I said those anti-lockdown let are partly to blame. Clearly. Not sure why that was so difficult for you. 

I presumed you would be counting me in that group, seen as you have presumed I'm also part of Reform UK.

[Bjornebye]

2 minutes ago, Spy Bee said:

I presumed you would be counting me in that group, seen as you have presumed I'm also part of Reform UK.

Jesus wept Spy Bee. Take a joke. Although you probably will end up shagging Farage. 

[Spy Bee]

5 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Jesus wept Spy Bee. Take a joke. Although you probably will end up shagging Farage. 

Nice joke that mate, aligning me with racists is hilarious.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

19 minutes ago, Fluter in Dakota said:

That's the wrong phrase, we need to respect the effect it has on people. The reason why we are locking down is because people aren't respecting the effect it has on people. 

It’s not the wrong phrase.

[Bjornebye]

11 minutes ago, Spy Bee said:

Nice joke that mate, aligning me with racists is hilarious.

You need a Pot Noodle and a wank mate. 

[Rico1304]

30 minutes ago, Jenson said:

As someone who uses RT-PCR regularly, it is an extremely accurate, sensitive and powerful technique when performed correctly, with well designed primers, proper controls and samples of sufficient quality. They can only be manipulated deliberately, will not detect other viruses if designed correctly and will not pick up dead virus as RNA as the genetic material is degraded extremely quickly.

This is not to say that they are infallible but the shortcomings in the accuracy/sensitivity rates will be much more to do with how samples are taken and how the PCR is prepared, than any problem with the technique itself.

I don't know the criteria that is applied to give a positive result but I can imagine that the quality of the actual swab tests taken is highly variable, and that when preparing the tests the need for speed will mean that the safeguards against contamination will be perhaps a little less stringent than I would use myself in the lab.

Ppft we’ve had enough of experts.  
 

As with all conspiracy theories it’s like a game of whack-a-mole, you knock down one part and another springs up.  It’s the same with 9/11. 

[Spy Bee]

7 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Ppft we’ve had enough of experts.  
 

As with all conspiracy theories it’s like a game of whack-a-mole, you knock down one part and another springs up.  It’s the same with 9/11. 

You make me laugh. 

 

You find nothing at all absurd about 9/11 or the Madeleine McCann disappearance?

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, Spy Bee said:

You make me laugh. 

 

You find nothing at all absurd about 9/11 or the Madeleine McCann disappearance?

What do you find absurd about it? Apart from the actual event of course. 

[Rico1304]

1 minute ago, Spy Bee said:

You make me laugh. 

 

You find nothing at all absurd about 9/11 or the Madeleine McCann disappearance?

Of course 9/11 is absurd.  Terrorists hijacked planes and flew them into buildings. It’s the definition of absurd. Maddie was kidnapped and killed by a paedo. Cadaver dogs are the new t-cells. 

[Rico1304]

On 28/03/2018 at 10:26, Spy Bee said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/48-questions-kate-mccann-refused-to-answer-madeleine-disappearance-portugal-a7710111.html

 

 

 

Just for a start. I haven't watched the video above, but I presume it contains the details about blood and cadaver being identified.

 

I am amazed that anyone can read the available evidence and think that she may still be alive, and that the McCann's were not at least complicit.

Amazed I tell you. 

[Sugar Ape]

51 minutes ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

Hello Captain Bookmark. If you didn't have the "energy to go through all this again" then you wouldn't have replied would you? You just couldn't resist could you?

You are under the impression that I have only taken on board Yeardon's articles. I have been reading, watching and listening to numerous sources of information since March.

 

Very presumptious of you, to presume I am happy to dismiss your collection of bookmarks based on two articles.

Here's another interesting article that was in the British Medical Journal, suppose that's on the not to believe list too? I just don't have a special bookmarks folder like you to try and ram my points down other peoples throats when they express their opinions.

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1808

 

And so what if he is a sceptic who writes for Toby Young's website, doesn't mean I agree with anything that bald horrible Tory cunt says, doesn't make Yeardon like him. Also doesn't make me believe everything he says. Sometimes it is good to get a bit of balance from both sides and not just one set of sources all saying the same thing. That would be like sitting in an echo chamber don't you think?

 

What point have I proved? That someone has a differene in opinion to you? Big Wow! Well done me.

 

The inventor of PCR tests questioned that they shouldn't be used for checking for viruses because you can manipulate them to find what it is you want to find. Plus how do we know these tests are correct, they have no gold standard to be compared to.

 

There are over 44k Dr's and Medical Experts who are against lockdown. That's a convincing number of people to help form an opinion on Lockdown.

 

All the stuff you’ve come out with has already been debunked on here many times. The reason I picked you up on thinking the test can pick up the common cold and the flu is because it’s fucking batshit crazy. 
 

How much evidence do you want that it isn’t true? What is it going to take for you to believe that you’re wrong?

 

Have you even read your BMJ article? Can you point out to me where it says the test picks up the flu, colds and similar illnesses which is what you said?

 

Or maybe you could listen to @Jenson who actually works with the tests. 
 

Balance isn’t listening to an outlier and favouring what they say over the dozens of other experts who say they’re wrong. 
 

The inventor of the PCR test didn’t say that. I’ll pull out some bookmarks, otherwise known as the ability to use Google, to prove that. I look forward to you coming back with a Breitbart article or some shit to prove you’re right. 
 

https://in.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN24420X

 

Fact check: Inventor of method used to test for COVID-19 didn’t say it can’t be used in virus detection

 

 

Social media users have been sharing a quote attributed to the inventor of the Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) test, currently being used to detect COVID-19, which says "PCR tests cannot detect free infectious viruses at all". This quote has been falsely attributed to the inventor, Kary Mullis, and has been taken out of context to falsify its original meaning. 

 

The posts have been shared over 1,000 times on Facebook (here ,  here ,  here).

 

The post begins with the words “COVID-19 TEST a FRAUD?”, then introduces the alleged quote from Mullis, who invented the PCR method in 1985 and was recognized for this achievement by being awarded the Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 1993 (here).

 

However, the quote is actually from an article written by John Lauritsen in December 1996 about HIV and AIDS, not COVID-19 (here).

 

The context around the quote shows Lauritsen is not saying PCR tests do not work. Instead, he is clarifying that PCR identifies substances qualitatively not quantitatively, detecting the genetic sequences of viruses, but not the viruses themselves: “PCR is intended to identify substances qualitatively, but by its very nature is unsuited for estimating numbers. Although there is a common misimpression that the viral load tests actually count the number of viruses in the blood, these tests cannot detect free, infectious viruses at all; they can only detect proteins that are believed, in some cases wrongly, to be unique to HIV. The tests can detect genetic sequences of viruses, but not viruses themselves.”

 

The PCR test is the preferred COVID-19 testing method in England (tinyurl.com/u9xxxup). It detects the presence of the virus by amplifying the virus’genetic material to a point where it can be detected by scientists (tinyurl.com/y7rno7pf).

 

A spokesperson for Public Health England told Reuters why PCR tests are being used widely in England: “Molecular diagnostic tests, such as real-time PCR, are the gold standard methods for identifying individuals with an active viral infection, such as SARS-CoV-2 (the cause of COVID-19 disease), in their respiratory tract. These tests are rapid and produce results in real-time.

 

"It is important to note that detecting viral material by PCR does not indicate that the virus is fully intact and infectious, i.e. able to cause infection in other people. The isolation of infectious virus from positive individuals requires virus culture methods. These methods can only be conducted in laboratories with specialist containment facilities and are time consuming and complex.”

 

VERDICT

False. The quote undermining PCR tests is misattributed to Mullis and taken out of context. PCR tests are being used widely in England to show that SARS-CoV-2 viral genetic material is present in the patient.

 

And no, 44,000 drs and medical experts haven’t said they’re against lockdown. Anyone can sign that document and say they’re a medical expert. I signed it myself as Dr Spy Bee. Since I know you love ‘bookmarks’ aka the ability to Google simple things, here are some more for you;

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid

 

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/coronavirus-dr-johnny-bananas-and-dr-person-fakename-among-medical-signatories-on-herd-immunity-open-letter-12099947

 

On 9 October 2020, several media outlets reported that dozens of obviously bogus names were among the then 175,000 signatures of support for the declaration, including "Mr Banana Rama", "Dr Johnny Fartpants", "Dr Person Fakename", "Harold Shipman", "Professor Notaf Uckingclue", and "Prof Cominic Dummings".More than 100 psychotherapists, numerous homeopaths, physiotherapists, massage therapists, and other non-relevant people were found to be signatories, including a performer of Khoomei– a Mongolian style of overtone singing – described as a "therapeutic sound practitioner". In response, Jay Bhattacharya regretted that "some people have abused our trust by adding false names", which he supposed was "inevitable". However, he added that "given the volume of correspondence I have received from medical and public health professionals, as well as scientists and epidemiologists, it is clear that a very large number of experts resonate with the message of the declaration and its call for a focused protection policy".

 

You can have whatever opinion you want, I don’t give a fuck, but if you want to post nonsense that is demonstrably false then don’t cry when people point it out to you. 

[Spy Bee]

 

[Rico1304]

3 minutes ago, Spy Bee said:

 

He’s answering a different question. It’s fucking hilarious watching you. 

[Sugar Ape]

4 minutes ago, Spy Bee said:

 

Did you even watch that? What do you think he’s saying? Because it isn’t that PCR tests shouldn’t be used to detect viruses. 

[Spy Bee]

3 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

He’s answering a different question. It’s fucking hilarious watching you. 

It doesn't matter what he's answering, it's what he says.

[Spy Bee]

1 minute ago, Sugar Ape said:

Did you even watch that? What do you think he’s saying? Because it isn’t that PCR tests shouldn’t be used to detect viruses. 

He's talking about why PCR tests can return anomalous results is he not?

 

If I'm wrong, my bad. I'm working so not giving my full attention.

[3 Stacks]

Don't you just love the "I don't live in fear" people? It's not a healthy respect for the pandemic and taking the appropriate measures, it's "living in fear". Wish I was as tough as those people.

[TheHowieLama]

Good to see the Bee back on his game.

[Elite]

3 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

Don't you just love the "I don't live in fear" people? It's not a healthy respect for the pandemic and taking the appropriate measures, it's "living in fear". Wish I was as tough as those people.

Anyone can act tough until they get punched in the face.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

33 minutes ago, Sugar Ape said:

Have you even read your BMJ article? Can you point out to me where it says the test picks up the flu, colds and similar illnesses which is what you said?

 

I just said it was an intersting article. So stop lying saying I have said something I haven't.

 

Quote

 

Here's another interesting article that was in the British Medical Journal, suppose that's on the not to believe list too? I just don't have a special bookmarks folder like you to try and ram my points down other peoples throats when they express their opinions.

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1808

 

33 minutes ago, Sugar Ape said:

Fact check: Inventor of method used to test for COVID-19 didn’t say it can’t be used in virus detection

Again, not what I said.

Quote

The inventor of PCR tests questioned that they shouldn't be used for checking for viruses because you can manipulate them to find what it is you want to find.

 

Quote

Balance isn’t listening to an outlier and favouring what they say over the dozens of other experts who say they’re wrong. 

How can a Covid test data be used as full 100% accuracy when it has no gold standard compare to. That is fairly reasonably valid question.

Quote

You can have whatever opinion you want, I don’t give a fuck, but if you want to post nonsense that is demonstrably false then don’t cry when people point it out to you. 

You clearly do. I am not the one crying here, I gave an opinion on how I felt about what's going on. You are the one that start crying. I am not engaging with you any or anyone else about it.

33 minutes ago, Sugar Ape said:

I look forward to you coming back with a Breitbart article or some shit to prove you’re right. 

Very presumptious that I would post a Breitbart article, seems to me you had already made your mind up about who and what I am. Are you suggesting I am right wing?

Quote

Or maybe you could listen to @Jenson who actually works with the tests. 

I welcomed Jenson's post. Interesting to hear his opinion.

[Sugar Ape]

1 minute ago, Spy Bee said:

He's talking about why PCR tests can return anomalous results is he not?

 

If I'm wrong, my bad. I'm working so not giving my full attention.

No. He’s saying it will detect the virus but it won’t tell you if you are currently ill with the disease, or in the case of Covid, if you are currently infectious. 
 

As Jenson says above, it’s accurate and it’s designed specifically to detect Covid. It won’t pick up dead virus but it may (as I understand it and maybe @Jenson can confirm) pick it up a short while after you have stopped being infectious. 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

17 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

Don't you just love the "I don't live in fear" people? It's not a healthy respect for the pandemic and taking the appropriate measures, it's "living in fear". Wish I was as tough as those people.

I've seen a few "I don't know anybody who's had covid...(therefore, it doesn't exist)" type of comments of late too. 

 

It's utter lunacy. I mean, personally, I don't know anybody who's had pancreatic cancer, so....