Rodgers In

[Strontium]

And yet we still managed to beat Man City, Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal last season. So we can't have been that bad. And, indeed, weren't.

[Major Tom]

"On the rocks" to me means in serious

 

'On the rocks', 'serious trouble'; they are both relative and subjective terms. Arguing over their intended meaning would appear a little futile, Shirley.

[Gym Beglin]

We all know that Rodgers wants to play tiki taka.

 

Allen was a great buy in terms of beginning this, and Lucas will also be fundamental as long as his injury hasn't inhibited his mobility and power. We definitely lack the 3rd muskateer in the middle, because it isn't Gerrard. He doesn't understand it, he's old school english bish bash bosh in his approach, and furthermore he's not actually a midfielder anymore.

 

Other than Allen and Lucas, I think Johnson, Agger, Suso, Suarez, Sterling all have the brain, the talent, and the confidence to play tiki taka football. Well, now it's starting to take shape isn't it, the same group of players getting picked for every game...

 

The rest just aren't capable, be it a confidence issue, be it intelligence on or off the ball, or the technique required.

 

And people wonder why Rodgers is having a hard time getting imposing his game on the players? He thought Sahin could complete his midfield 3, but he's proven to be a shadow of the player he was once was, he may never recover that level again for any side, his mobility seems shot to pieces. Nevermind, loan deal.

Borini? Injured. End of story. And, besides which, the striker(s) at the apex of the 4-3-3 don't need to be as switched on in terms of passing as the midfield are. The strikers need to see spaces and make runs, and he does that, just like Suarez does that. Lovely.

Same with Sturridge, it doesn't matter that he's not Xavi (though he's a lovely passer), he just needs to be mobile and find gaps to make runs into.

 

I sincerely think that if we had someone like Moutinho, or someone of that ilk, in Gerrard's position, then we'd be miles better than we are.

 

Of course, we still need improvements either side of Suarez, some depth in the squad, but we're not a million miles off being an excellent team in theory.

 

There are still caveats to that though, mental strength being one and physical strength being another. For example, Arry's speech tomorrow will be Churchill-esque for QPR. "Beat these and we can get momentum and stay up. They crumble under pressure, if you want it more then you'll get it and you'll beat em, their keeper is shite, go get em".

QPR will be like hungry yard dogs and we'll be worried about losing. I can see a loss, no problems there.

This is where confidence comes in, confidence in your own ability under pressure, and hard work to give your team mate an escape pass. QPR can't sustain chasing every ball for 90 minutes, if we kept the ball then we'd wear them down, and this is the famous Rodgers mantra, "death by football".

However, we've got players like Gerrard, Shelvey, Henderson, Downing who give it away under pressure, who dont back up their team mates, who dont work hard to make themselves available or close the opposition down.

Against Fulham, la de da, lovely, they weren't desperate, they're the type of teams we can get away with taking a bit more time, Jol is a good man, he likes to try and play football the right way, not get his players to run themselves into the ground to eeek out a 0-0 and possibly a win.

 

The physicality of Stoke is another issue, although the same rule still applies. It's still pressure from them and the weakness of the players in not being ready for the challenge and not having the ability to control and pass a ball under pressure, or play the correct ball first time. We were also undermined by the inability of the central defenders to win aerial balls, which is something that Puyol and Pique can do all day. A new centre back would be near the top of my January list, but Coates would definitely get a chance.

 

Rodgers needs time, not loads of it, but we should see improvement in each transfer window if he's given 'some' money. Not loads, just 'some' will do for now. He knows who he wants to sell, but the wages are the barrier.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rodgers said. "It's not easily solved. It's not like other sports where you can just tell someone 'that's it' and show them the door and they're gone. This is a club that pays big money - it takes time. "

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rodgers knows.

Sadly we need to run their contracts down a bit more before they move on and leech off another club. You can thank Purslow, Kenny and Ayre for this problem, and Rodgers is trying to deal with it, he couldn't have tried harder to get rid of Carroll, much to some 'fans' chagrin.

 

It's about time the 'fans' backed a manager. I think some fans forget what that means, the notion of 'backing' someone seems to be time-limited, like a 6 month thing. No, we're talking two or three full years. That's what it means to 'back' a manager, get the old players out, get some new ones in, get the backroom staff sorted and bedded in, get used to the club, the players, just to assimilate into life on Merseyside. His remit isn't to win the Champions League next year, his remit (in my view) is to qualify for the Champions League next year, or be damn close to it and improving. I think he'll get there, I like what I see at times, I think we just need to see some better players come in and replace the ill-fitting ones. 'Better' doesn't always mean 'more expensive'. Leon Britton wasn't expensive, and in most teams he'd probably be a fringe player frowned on for not winning more 50/50's in the air. Bit like the lad Borja Valero for West Brom once was. But put into a proper footballing team, sometimes the most unassuming players can be superstars.

 

I love that philosophy and much prefer it to the model applied by the Mancs or Chelsea.

[Neil G]

I really need to disagree here. Our Squad has got worse every year for about 4yrs or so... Kenny 'slightly' improved it, but it was still pretty fucking piss poor.

 

 

See post #97.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

And yet we still managed to beat Man City, Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal last season. So we can't have been that bad. And, indeed, weren't.

 

That's how football works, isn't it. If you beat Chelsea in the league, when they're resting players for the European Cup final, you're great. But, wait a minute, we also lost to them in the final of the FA Cup. So we're better than the European Cup winners, but worse than the FA Cup winners. Not to mention we beat City in the Carling Capital One Milk Cup, and they won the league. So we're better than those who won the league and European cup. It's a wonder we only finished 8th, really.

[Evil_Ways]

Agreed, but it certainly wasn't poor enough to be described as "on the rocks."

 

Depends on that definition i guess.

 

As compared to the top 4-5 we have been about 3-4 players short since we last were there i think. Kenny got to spend big in his two transfer windows. Rodgers has not been afforded that, he's had to cut the wage bill significantly and only been afforded 2 proper signings. Think we oughta give him a proper chance before we start to get on his back...

[Neil G]

'On the rocks', 'serious trouble'; they are both relative and subjective terms. Arguing over their intended meaning would appear a little futile, Shirley.

 

 

Whatever Hank means by it, it's not complimentary. That's as much as I need to know.

[Gym Beglin]

And yet we still managed to beat Man City, Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal last season. So we can't have been that bad. And, indeed, weren't.

 

Newcastle 'werent bad' last season either.

But look now.

 

Knocking together some wins, throwing the style out of the window, being reliant on a Ba, or Cisse, or individual brilliance from someone, that's not my idea of stability.

 

We weren't 'that bad' for patches mostly because we just had games where Suarez was class and we were solid defensively.

 

The PL has been pretty dire, beating those unremarkable teams was, well, quite unremarkable.

[fowler9]

We came 8th.... we were that bad

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

A poor squad doesn't stay in contention for the Champions League places until March.

 

This is absolutely bizarre and desperate stuff, Neil. Firstly, we were 10 points off of fourth at the beginning of March and 13 points off by the end of it. That's 'in contention'? Secondly, what are you going on about? League position isn't about what you do by the time the Christmas turkey runs out. Which is why West Brom being 3 points from 3rd place and 2 points from 4th going into the new year this season doesn't really matter.

 

Had we won against Villa or (not and) Stoke, we'd only be 4 points off now and we've not got a good squad/ Shit, had we been IN the top four, we'd still not have a good squad. Just give over, it's clearly in a dreadful state and needs overhauling, despite spending loads on attacking positions.

[Red Nick]

by the end of JAN we will see the real BR team and views should be very interesting

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Whatever Hank means by it, it's not complimentary. That's as much as I need to know.

 

You've got that absolutely spot on. I've got very little complements for the squad taken over by Rodgers. In fact, it's as weak as any squad inherited by a Liverpool manager in my lifetime.

[Strontium]

That's how football works, isn't it. If you beat Chelsea in the league, when they're resting players for the European Cup final, you're great. But, wait a minute, we also lost to them in the final of the FA Cup. So we're better than the European Cup winners, but worse than the FA Cup winners. Not to mention we beat City in the Carling Capital One Milk Cup, and they won the league. So we're better than those who won the league and European cup. It's a wonder we only finished 8th, really.

 

 

I see you have judiciously ignored the fact that we beat Chelsea at their place early in the season, when European Cup was not a factor.

 

We finished 8th for two reasons. One, we had no fucking luck whatsoever. Two, we were derailed badly by the Suarez affair.

 

I do believe Kenny was on broadly the right track, and his sacking was short-sighted in the extreme. We are run by fools from top to bottom.

[Gym Beglin]

We all know that Rodgers wants to play tiki taka.

 

Allen was a great buy in terms of beginning this, and Lucas will also be fundamental as long as his injury hasn't inhibited his mobility and power. We definitely lack the 3rd muskateer in the middle, because it isn't Gerrard. He doesn't understand it, he's old school english bish bash bosh in his approach, and furthermore he's not actually a midfielder anymore.

 

Other than Allen and Lucas, I think Johnson, Agger, Suso, Suarez, Sterling all have the brain, the talent, and the confidence to play tiki taka football. Well, now it's starting to take shape isn't it, the same group of players getting picked for every game...

 

The rest just aren't capable, be it a confidence issue, be it intelligence on or off the ball, or the technique required.

 

And people wonder why Rodgers is having a hard time getting imposing his game on the players? He thought Sahin could complete his midfield 3, but he's proven to be a shadow of the player he was once was, he may never recover that level again for any side, his mobility seems shot to pieces. Nevermind, loan deal.

Borini? Injured. End of story. And, besides which, the striker(s) at the apex of the 4-3-3 don't need to be as switched on in terms of passing as the midfield are. The strikers need to see spaces and make runs, and he does that, just like Suarez does that. Lovely.

Same with Sturridge, it doesn't matter that he's not Xavi (though he's a lovely passer), he just needs to be mobile and find gaps to make runs into.

 

I sincerely think that if we had someone like Moutinho, or someone of that ilk, in Gerrard's position, then we'd be miles better than we are.

 

Of course, we still need improvements either side of Suarez, some depth in the squad, but we're not a million miles off being an excellent team in theory.

 

There are still caveats to that though, mental strength being one and physical strength being another. For example, Arry's speech tomorrow will be Churchill-esque for QPR. "Beat these and we can get momentum and stay up. They crumble under pressure, if you want it more then you'll get it and you'll beat em, their keeper is shite, go get em".

QPR will be like hungry yard dogs and we'll be worried about losing. I can see a loss, no problems there.

This is where confidence comes in, confidence in your own ability under pressure, and hard work to give your team mate an escape pass. QPR can't sustain chasing every ball for 90 minutes, if we kept the ball then we'd wear them down, and this is the famous Rodgers mantra, "death by football".

However, we've got players like Gerrard, Shelvey, Henderson, Downing who give it away under pressure, who dont back up their team mates, who dont work hard to make themselves available or close the opposition down.

Against Fulham, la de da, lovely, they weren't desperate, they're the type of teams we can get away with taking a bit more time, Jol is a good man, he likes to try and play football the right way, not get his players to run themselves into the ground to eeek out a 0-0 and possibly a win.

 

The physicality of Stoke is another issue, although the same rule still applies. It's still pressure from them and the weakness of the players in not being ready for the challenge and not having the ability to control and pass a ball under pressure, or play the correct ball first time. We were also undermined by the inability of the central defenders to win aerial balls, which is something that Puyol and Pique can do all day. A new centre back would be near the top of my January list, but Coates would definitely get a chance.

 

Rodgers needs time, not loads of it, but we should see improvement in each transfer window if he's given 'some' money. Not loads, just 'some' will do for now. He knows who he wants to sell, but the wages are the barrier.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rodgers said. "It's not easily solved. It's not like other sports where you can just tell someone 'that's it' and show them the door and they're gone. This is a club that pays big money - it takes time. "

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rodgers knows.

Sadly we need to run their contracts down a bit more before they move on and leech off another club. You can thank Purslow, Kenny and Ayre for this problem, and Rodgers is trying to deal with it, he couldn't have tried harder to get rid of Carroll, much to some 'fans' chagrin.

 

It's about time the 'fans' backed a manager. I think some fans forget what that means, the notion of 'backing' someone seems to be time-limited, like a 6 month thing. No, we're talking two or three full years. That's what it means to 'back' a manager, get the old players out, get some new ones in, get the backroom staff sorted and bedded in, get used to the club, the players, just to assimilate into life on Merseyside. His remit isn't to win the Champions League next year, his remit (in my view) is to qualify for the Champions League next year, or be damn close to it and improving. I think he'll get there, I like what I see at times, I think we just need to see some better players come in and replace the ill-fitting ones. 'Better' doesn't always mean 'more expensive'. Leon Britton wasn't expensive, and in most teams he'd probably be a fringe player frowned on for not winning more 50/50's in the air. Bit like the lad Borja Valero for West Brom once was. But put into a proper footballing team, sometimes the most unassuming players can be superstars.

 

I love that philosophy and much prefer it to the model applied by the Mancs or Chelsea.

 

 

And then I read...

 

Sky Italia saying we have made enquire for diakite, centre back from lazio.

 

Well well well. It looks like Operation Funnneeeee Rodgeeeeers is bang on time.

[Strontium]

by the end of JAN we will see the real BR team and views should be very interesting

 

 

What's going to happen when Rodgers spends a small fortune and we're still shit? What will the Wodpologists do then?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I do believe Kenny was on broadly the right track

 

Yeah, but you think Carroll is going to outscore Suarez and that 'Downing is boss'. You would think that.

[fowler9]

What's going to happen when Rodgers spends a small fortune and we're still shit? What will the Wodpologists do then?

 

if he spends a lot and we still don't look near when they've had substantial time to bed in and we can accurately judge then he should go just like anyone else would have to

[Evil_Ways]

by the end of JAN we will see the real BR team and views should be very interesting

 

No we wont. but certainly more so than now. However surely we need to give him as much time as we gave Kenny, at least...

[Major Tom]

What's going to happen when Rodgers spends a small fortune and we're still shit? What will the Wodpologists do then?

 

Six months. One hamstrung transfer window.

 

Embarrassing.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

if he spends a lot and we still don't look near when they've had substantial time to bed in and we can accurately judge then he should go just like anyone else would have to

 

Absolutely right, mate. If he gets his own players, but fucks up the purchases, spends loads on shit players and we're playing shit... fair fucks, see you later.

[Gym Beglin]

 

We finished 8th for two reasons. One, we had no fucking luck whatsoever. Two, we were derailed badly by the Suarez affair.

 

I do believe Kenny was on broadly the right track, and his sacking was short-sighted in the extreme. We are run by fools from top to bottom.

 

No, hitting the woodwork 10 times in a season is unlucky. Hitting it 33 times is shit finishing and a lack of confidence.

 

In terms of spending time in the opposition half, only Barcelona (of the top 5 european leagues) beat us.

 

You want stats to help your Kenny love-in? Here you go

 

Liverpool FC 2011/12 In Stats: The Good, The Bad And The Ugly | Bass Tuned To Red

[fowler9]

 

I do believe Kenny was on broadly the right track, and his sacking was short-sighted in the extreme.

 

I just don't see where this comes from to be honest, we had an alright first half of last season where we could be considered unlucky not to be doing considerably better, a little like this season really but save for the cups where credit where its due we were great the second half of last season in terms of league performance was as bad as any spell in recent memory.

 

Kenny's spell as caretaker was amazing but once he brought his own players in he didn't show many signs of taking us where we want to be in my opinion and the main reason I thought he should've gone last summer was because I didn't believe in him to rectify his mistakes in the transfer market

[Neil G]

Depends on that definition i guess.

 

As compared to the top 4-5 we have been about 3-4 players short since we last were there i think. Kenny got to spend big in his two transfer windows. Rodgers has not been afforded that, he's had to cut the wage bill significantly and only been afforded 2 proper signings. Think we oughta give him a proper chance before we start to get on his back...

 

 

As I already said, whatever "on the rocks" means, it isn't good.

 

I don't know if your last sentence is aimed at me, if it is then it's way off base. I'm behind Rodgers as I've said numerous times. I just don't like the ongoing revision of Kenny's record and legacy to make out that Rodgers has a harder task than he actually has.

[Gym Beglin]

What's going to happen when Rodgers spends a small fortune and we're still shit? What will the Wodpologists do then?

 

Then we'll sack him, just like we sacked Kenny, and Roy, and Rafa, and Ged, and Evans.

 

'Small fortune' is open for debate though. Give him £80m and if we don't improve then I'll happily get rid.

£80m is an oscene amount to spend.

[Evil_Ways]

As I already said, whatever "on the rocks" means, it isn't good.

 

I don't know if your last sentence is aimed at me, if it is then it's way off base. I'm behind Rodgers as I've said numerous times. I just don't like the ongoing revision of Kenny's record and legacy to make out that Rodgers has a harder task than he actually has.

 

No, not aimed at you in particular, just generally.

 

Rodgers vs Kenny is not something im looking to point out either, just as compared to how the owners judged him and Comolli, Kenny got 3 transfer windows, Rodgers has got one so far, and was pretty much handicapped in it.

I think we oughta at least give the guy a proper chance before we get on his back and start to judge him.