Thatcher

[mcflynn]

She was a nasty piece of work.

[FortressAnfield]

She is one of our greatest PMs, so despite the reference to her being a heroine, I voted for that option.

 

This country was in dire straits when she took over as PM. Decades of economic complacency when even Conservative governments flowed with the Labour/TUC tide had reduced us to the laughing stock of Europe, and an economic basket case. She took on the whole lot, including most of her own party, and turned the country round. Overall, prosperity returned to Britain, and the habit of allowing TUC leaders, elected by a tiny handful of people, to set the economic agenda of the country was defeated. Internationally, she may haved paved the way for Ronald Reagan, but whether she did or not, standing shoulder to shoulder with him resulted in the fall of Communism, the decline of totalitarian government in many countries, and the reduced threat of global nuclear war.

 

She made mistakes - who doesn't? The measures her government took in the early 80s had to be taken, but they fell disproportionally on certain parts of the country. Would it have been possible for some sort of aid to be given to those parts of the country which were dependent on old, declining industries to be given? I don't know - maybe not; but overall the country benefited. A strand of current British economic policy began in the 80s, was continued in the 90s by John Major, and is pushed ever further forward by Tony Blair, and has resulted in a country where we make little, and spend most of our time flogging stuff made overseas to each other: service industries are fine, but the economy is becoming more and more dependent on vast retail chains. But that is 2007 - she was last in power in 1990. Who is to blame?

 

I am impressed, as I read the vitiolic comments made by so many here, at the power of the anti-Thatcher sections of the media. Under every government, there are winners and losers individually. The trick is to ensure the number of losers is minimised, that there is in place opportunities for those who lose to turn things round, and that the country as a whole gains. By and large, she achieved that. But the anti-Thatcher media has managed to make so many people believe that she was the epitome of evil, and that every action she took was a deliberate attempt to personally destroy them - it is a staggering achievement that even Goebbels could not have dreamed of doing.

 

No other leader has had to endure such personal abuse. She took on the vested interests of the trade unions and the public sector - it was these sections of the country and the attitudes they embodied that led us into the state we were in in the late 70s. She was so successful in reversing the damage they did that she has been subjected to thirty years of villification by them - and their campaign has been so successful.

 

She made many mistakes, but she got the country standing on it's own feet economically, and we still have a comparitively strong economy nearly 20 years on, despite the loss of momentum in the Major years, and the return of high-taxing, high-spending, low accountability, short-termist Labour administrations.

 

The best peace-time PM of the 20th century, without a doubt.

[Stu Monty]

She is one of our greatest PMs, so despite the reference to her being a heroine, I voted for that option.

 

This country was in dire straits when she took over as PM. Decades of economic complacency when even Conservative governments flowed with the Labour/TUC tide had reduced us to the laughing stock of Europe, and an economic basket case. She took on the whole lot, including most of her own party, and turned the country round. Overall, prosperity returned to Britain, and the habit of allowing TUC leaders, elected by a tiny handful of people, to set the economic agenda of the country was defeated. Internationally, she may haved paved the way for Ronald Reagan, but whether she did or not, standing shoulder to shoulder with him resulted in the fall of Communism, the decline of totalitarian government in many countries, and the reduced threat of global nuclear war.

 

She made mistakes - who doesn't? The measures her government took in the early 80s had to be taken, but they fell disproportionally on certain parts of the country. Would it have been possible for some sort of aid to be given to those parts of the country which were dependent on old, declining industries to be given? I don't know - maybe not; but overall the country benefited. A strand of current British economic policy began in the 80s, was continued in the 90s by John Major, and is pushed ever further forward by Tony Blair, and has resulted in a country where we make little, and spend most of our time flogging stuff made overseas to each other: service industries are fine, but the economy is becoming more and more dependent on vast retail chains. But that is 2007 - she was last in power in 1990. Who is to blame?

 

I am impressed, as I read the vitiolic comments made by so many here, at the power of the anti-Thatcher sections of the media. Under every government, there are winners and losers individually. The trick is to ensure the number of losers is minimised, that there is in place opportunities for those who lose to turn things round, and that the country as a whole gains. By and large, she achieved that. But the anti-Thatcher media has managed to make so many people believe that she was the epitome of evil, and that every action she took was a deliberate attempt to personally destroy them - it is a staggering achievement that even Goebbels could not have dreamed of doing.

 

No other leader has had to endure such personal abuse. She took on the vested interests of the trade unions and the public sector - it was these sections of the country and the attitudes they embodied that led us into the state we were in in the late 70s. She was so successful in reversing the damage they did that she has been subjected to thirty years of villification by them - and their campaign has been so successful.

 

She made many mistakes, but she got the country standing on it's own feet economically, and we still have a comparitively strong economy nearly 20 years on, despite the loss of momentum in the Major years, and the return of high-taxing, high-spending, low accountability, short-termist Labour administrations.

 

The best peace-time PM of the 20th century, without a doubt.

 

Part one - See previous post by S31.

 

Part two - Yes, that whole massive crippling recession and complete devaluing of the pound was a little hiccup in that economic haven, wasn't it; Boom and Bust ringing any bells. Labour were that short-termist that they gave the Bank of England control of the interest rates. High-spending? How would you have sorted out years of under-investment, with magic beans?

 

Thatcher's opinion was that if you were going places you pull the ladder up behind you and let the rest rot, that cultural shift was not a good one and is still being felt today.

 

I don't think that what Labour have done is all good and have many, many issues with them but at least when I look at most of them they seem human. They might be driven or poor at their jobs or many other things but they certainly don't give me the same horrible feeling that Tatcher defined and the Conservatives still have about promoting stamping on your neighbour's face for a few quid.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For the record: Beckett and Prescott don't look human, I'll accept that.

[Elmyn Noos]

She is one of our greatest PMs, so despite the reference to her being a heroine, I voted for that option.

 

This country was in dire straits when she took over as PM. Decades of economic complacency when even Conservative governments flowed with the Labour/TUC tide had reduced us to the laughing stock of Europe, and an economic basket case. She took on the whole lot, including most of her own party, and turned the country round. Overall, prosperity returned to Britain, and the habit of allowing TUC leaders, elected by a tiny handful of people, to set the economic agenda of the country was defeated. Internationally, she may haved paved the way for Ronald Reagan, but whether she did or not, standing shoulder to shoulder with him resulted in the fall of Communism, the decline of totalitarian government in many countries, and the reduced threat of global nuclear war.

 

She made mistakes - who doesn't? The measures her government took in the early 80s had to be taken, but they fell disproportionally on certain parts of the country. Would it have been possible for some sort of aid to be given to those parts of the country which were dependent on old, declining industries to be given? I don't know - maybe not; but overall the country benefited. A strand of current British economic policy began in the 80s, was continued in the 90s by John Major, and is pushed ever further forward by Tony Blair, and has resulted in a country where we make little, and spend most of our time flogging stuff made overseas to each other: service industries are fine, but the economy is becoming more and more dependent on vast retail chains. But that is 2007 - she was last in power in 1990. Who is to blame?

 

I am impressed, as I read the vitiolic comments made by so many here, at the power of the anti-Thatcher sections of the media. Under every government, there are winners and losers individually. The trick is to ensure the number of losers is minimised, that there is in place opportunities for those who lose to turn things round, and that the country as a whole gains. By and large, she achieved that. But the anti-Thatcher media has managed to make so many people believe that she was the epitome of evil, and that every action she took was a deliberate attempt to personally destroy them - it is a staggering achievement that even Goebbels could not have dreamed of doing.

 

No other leader has had to endure such personal abuse. She took on the vested interests of the trade unions and the public sector - it was these sections of the country and the attitudes they embodied that led us into the state we were in in the late 70s. She was so successful in reversing the damage they did that she has been subjected to thirty years of villification by them - and their campaign has been so successful.

 

She made many mistakes, but she got the country standing on it's own feet economically, and we still have a comparitively strong economy nearly 20 years on, despite the loss of momentum in the Major years, and the return of high-taxing, high-spending, low accountability, short-termist Labour administrations.

 

The best peace-time PM of the 20th century, without a doubt.

 

Utter bollocks. Such total bollocks in fact, that it would take me all morning to address each individual statement and highlight why it is bollocks. I cna only assume you were either not around in the Thatcher era, or were one of the few that prospered. If you like her so much, you'd better fetch a damp cloth and a pooper scooper down to her graveside when the slut dies.

[wiiksie]

Argue the point then Noos you pussy, dont just give it 'you're talking bollocks but Im not saying why'.

[Guest PaddyBerger15]

I thought she was ace, on Spitting Image.

[Elmyn Noos]

Argue the point then Noos you pussy, dont just give it 'you're talking bollocks but Im not saying why'.

 

I would have thought it was clear from previous posts, but ok in summary:

 

The 1st paragraph is horseshit:

"she is one of our greatest PMs" - by what measure? The boom bust economy? Black Wednesday (my mate cried at his desk at work that day)?, record unemployment?, the poll tax?, the crippling (rather than taming) of the unions?, the greed is good/look after number one society she promoted?, her autocratic leadership style? her corrupt cabinet? her war in the Falklands?

 

2nd paragraph - Retarded blinkered gibberish:

This country was in dire straits when she took over as PM, as was Germany when Hitler took over. A country has to be in dire straits to elect someone like that. "She turned the country round..overall prosperity returned"? Overall?? Only if you take an average and apply it across the board. The reality was that prosperity was heaped upon a very small few, whilst the vast majority were much much worse off. How can you say overall prosperity returned when the country had it's worst unemployment record in history? If memory serves, she even changed the way that unemployment was calculated (twice) because it making the news headlines every night. "She stood shoulder to shoulder with Reagan and defeated Communism to reduce the threat of nuclear war"? Nowhere in all the recording I have seen about the fall of communism have I seen Thatcher credited with playing any part in it whatsoever. She allowed the americans to base a nuclear threat in the UK, if that's what you mean?

 

Paragraph 3 is twattish nonsense:

She is given credit for our current strong economy even though she was last in power in 1990, but a perceived problem with our economy is not her fault because it was 1990 when she was last in power. A similar treatment is given to her "mistakes". Would it have been possible to give some sort of aid to those areas affected by her policies? You mean most of the fucking country outside London and the home counties? Aid?? Fucking Aid? Those parts of the country are parts of HER country. As PM she was tasked with looking after the whole fucking country. If her policies decimated whole communities and sectors of the economy, she had an absolute responsibility to address it, not hand out some sort of fucking aid.

 

Paragraph 4 is cretinous drivel:

I haven't seen any anti-Thatcher propaganda in the media, and to suggest that the vitriol felt towards her is media generated is pathetic. She is despised by the people that lived through her reign because she was a cunt. We were there. She was a cunt. Nothing in the media can change my view on that.We also get treated in this paragraph to another lesson on averages, on the wholes, overalls, and by and larges. The number of losers wasn't minimised. It was in fact totally the opposite. She gave not one tiny part of a flying fuck how many losers there were as long as the few winners won big.

 

Paragraph 5 - moronic rhetoric:

No other leader has endured such personal abuse? Why is that then mate? Are we all just brain-washed media monkeys, or perhaps it's because she was an evil cunt? The unions and the public sector has been somehow responsible for how Thatcher is remembered through their vilification of her? What?? How?? Fuck off.

 

Paragraph 6 - some sense, then more bollocks.

 

She made many mistakes. Agreed. Despite the high taxing, high spending, low accountability and short-termism Labour administrations? Are we giving Thatcher credit now for the current economy again? There was a famous election campaign run by Thatcher's government where they put up billboards showing a large bomb and talking about Labour putting up taxes if they got into power. Tories won the elction and in the very next budget put up taxes. Low accountability? Her cabinet was riddled with corruption, perversion, and scandal. "Political sleaze" was a phrase coined by the media during Thatcher's reign for fucks sake. Mellor was banging some whore (and making the poor bitch wear a Chelsea shirt while he did it), Cecil Parkinson banged his secretary, lied about it, she had a kid by him, he lied about that, he left cabinet for a short while and then came back! Accountability? Jeffrey Archer, the darling of the Tories? A lying cheating weasel of a cunt. Not to mention a couple of MPs found to be banging rent boys, one that hung himself as a result, and the Westland affair? The list goes on.

 

Final line - a crap joke:

 

"The best peace-time PM of the 20th century"? She was a fucking disgrace. Anyone that voted for her, particularly once we knew what she was about, should be fucking ashamed of themselves. She was a cunt, and FortressAnfield's post is, as I said, utter bollocks.

 

Will that do weeksie?

[RedinSweden]

Works for me Noos.

[Dirk]

It's possible to debate the merits of the point without offending the other person.

[Elmyn Noos]

It's possible to debate the merits of the point without offending the other person.

 

I'm not sure that it is you cunt.

[G Richards]

I voted necessary evil. I wouldn't quite use those words myself, but I feel she provided some sort of corrective that was necessary at the time. Obviously she got some big things wrong (ditto Blair) but on the whole, she was a necessary corrective.

 

Governments, no matter how energetic, tend to lose their way after about 10 years or so. That's why I feel Gordon Brown will be a short lived PM. It's not a comment about him, but the country needs a change of government.

 

That was certainly the case towards the end of Thatcher's time too.

[sh#t waffle]

I would have thought it was clear from previous posts, but ok in summary:

 

The 1st paragraph is horseshit:

"she is one of our greatest PMs" - by what measure? The boom bust economy? Black Wednesday (my mate cried at his desk at work that day)?, record unemployment?, the poll tax?, the crippling (rather than taming) of the unions?, the greed is good/look after number one society she promoted?, her autocratic leadership style? her corrupt cabinet? her war in the Falklands?

 

2nd paragraph - Retarded blinkered gibberish:

This country was in dire straits when she took over as PM, as was Germany when Hitler took over. A country has to be in dire straits to elect someone like that. "She turned the country round..overall prosperity returned"? Overall?? Only if you take an average and apply it across the board. The reality was that prosperity was heaped upon a very small few, whilst the vast majority were much much worse off. How can you say overall prosperity returned when the country had it's worst unemployment record in history? If memory serves, she even changed the way that unemployment was calculated (twice) because it making the news headlines every night. "She stood shoulder to shoulder with Reagan and defeated Communism to reduce the threat of nuclear war"? Nowhere in all the recording I have seen about the fall of communism have I seen Thatcher credited with playing any part in it whatsoever. She allowed the americans to base a nuclear threat in the UK, if that's what you mean?

 

Paragraph 3 is twattish nonsense:

She is given credit for our current strong economy even though she was last in power in 1990, but a perceived problem with our economy is not her fault because it was 1990 when she was last in power. A similar treatment is given to her "mistakes". Would it have been possible to give some sort of aid to those areas affected by her policies? You mean most of the fucking country outside London and the home counties? Aid?? Fucking Aid? Those parts of the country are parts of HER country. As PM she was tasked with looking after the whole fucking country. If her policies decimated whole communities and sectors of the economy, she had an absolute responsibility to address it, not hand out some sort of fucking aid.

 

Paragraph 4 is cretinous drivel:

I haven't seen any anti-Thatcher propaganda in the media, and to suggest that the vitriol felt towards her is media generated is pathetic. She is despised by the people that lived through her reign because she was a cunt. We were there. She was a cunt. Nothing in the media can change my view on that.We also get treated in this paragraph to another lesson on averages, on the wholes, overalls, and by and larges. The number of losers wasn't minimised. It was in fact totally the opposite. She gave not one tiny part of a flying fuck how many losers there were as long as the few winners won big.

 

Paragraph 5 - moronic rhetoric:

No other leader has endured such personal abuse? Why is that then mate? Are we all just brain-washed media monkeys, or perhaps it's because she was an evil cunt? The unions and the public sector has been somehow responsible for how Thatcher is remembered through their vilification of her? What?? How?? Fuck off.

 

Paragraph 6 - some sense, then more bollocks.

 

She made many mistakes. Agreed. Despite the high taxing, high spending, low accountability and short-termism Labour administrations? Are we giving Thatcher credit now for the current economy again? There was a famous election campaign run by Thatcher's government where they put up billboards showing a large bomb and talking about Labour putting up taxes if they got into power. Tories won the elction and in the very next budget put up taxes. Low accountability? Her cabinet was riddled with corruption, perversion, and scandal. "Political sleaze" was a phrase coined by the media during Thatcher's reign for fucks sake. Mellor was banging some whore (and making the poor bitch wear a Chelsea shirt while he did it), Cecil Parkinson banged his secretary, lied about it, she had a kid by him, he lied about that, he left cabinet for a short while and then came back! Accountability? Jeffrey Archer, the darling of the Tories? A lying cheating weasel of a cunt. Not to mention a couple of MPs found to be banging rent boys, one that hung himself as a result, and the Westland affair? The list goes on.

 

Final line - a crap joke:

 

"The best peace-time PM of the 20th century"? She was a fucking disgrace. Anyone that voted for her, particularly once we knew what she was about, should be fucking ashamed of themselves. She was a cunt, and FortressAnfield's post is, as I said, utter bollocks.

 

Will that do weeksie?

 

Good post. Her foreign policies also included the utterly unnecessary Flaklands War, cosying up to one of the most vicious dictators of the age in Pinochet, and refusing to condemn the South African Apartheid regime. Every time I think about her legacy another example of cuntishness I had previously forgotten springs to mind.

[redrosetints]

Really? Wonder what that one and a half grand a year council tax I pay for that goes towards the new social housing project across the road for those unwilling to work is all about. And this while I have to struggle on paying a quarter million mortgage.

 

FFS kelster, You have a quarter of a million pound mortgage, your not poor, by any definition. Open your eyes mate.

 

In fact its those kind of attitudes that are becoming more and more prevelant in society, the politics of envy and lack of tolerence, all stem from the lack of society around us and the me me me attitude that makes this country stink.

[redrosetints]

She is one of our greatest PMs, so despite the reference to her being a heroine, I voted for that option.

 

This country was in dire straits when she took over as PM. Decades of economic complacency when even Conservative governments flowed with the Labour/TUC tide had reduced us to the laughing stock of Europe, and an economic basket case. She took on the whole lot, including most of her own party, and turned the country round. Overall, prosperity returned to Britain, and the habit of allowing TUC leaders, elected by a tiny handful of people, to set the economic agenda of the country was defeated. Internationally, she may haved paved the way for Ronald Reagan, but whether she did or not, standing shoulder to shoulder with him resulted in the fall of Communism, the decline of totalitarian government in many countries, and the reduced threat of global nuclear war.

 

She made mistakes - who doesn't? The measures her government took in the early 80s had to be taken, but they fell disproportionally on certain parts of the country. Would it have been possible for some sort of aid to be given to those parts of the country which were dependent on old, declining industries to be given? I don't know - maybe not; but overall the country benefited. A strand of current British economic policy began in the 80s, was continued in the 90s by John Major, and is pushed ever further forward by Tony Blair, and has resulted in a country where we make little, and spend most of our time flogging stuff made overseas to each other: service industries are fine, but the economy is becoming more and more dependent on vast retail chains. But that is 2007 - she was last in power in 1990. Who is to blame?

 

I am impressed, as I read the vitiolic comments made by so many here, at the power of the anti-Thatcher sections of the media. Under every government, there are winners and losers individually. The trick is to ensure the number of losers is minimised, that there is in place opportunities for those who lose to turn things round, and that the country as a whole gains. By and large, she achieved that. But the anti-Thatcher media has managed to make so many people believe that she was the epitome of evil, and that every action she took was a deliberate attempt to personally destroy them - it is a staggering achievement that even Goebbels could not have dreamed of doing.

 

No other leader has had to endure such personal abuse. She took on the vested interests of the trade unions and the public sector - it was these sections of the country and the attitudes they embodied that led us into the state we were in in the late 70s. She was so successful in reversing the damage they did that she has been subjected to thirty years of villification by them - and their campaign has been so successful.

 

She made many mistakes, but she got the country standing on it's own feet economically, and we still have a comparitively strong economy nearly 20 years on, despite the loss of momentum in the Major years, and the return of high-taxing, high-spending, low accountability, short-termist Labour administrations.

 

The best peace-time PM of the 20th century, without a doubt.

 

No, what thatcherdid was to unleash a fully free market on us. Which is great at first but were just starting to see the rewards for that folly. In a free market, little people make some gains, in the short term. You sell your council house to make a bit, but in the grand scheme of things, only those of wealth will make under capitalism. We see it everywhere, the death of independent pubs and shops, supermarkets. Wealth attracts wealth. Thats why first time buyers can't afford houses, as its not your auntie vera, who sold her Council house who are buying up new properties now, its your top footie star, your city worker, your art dealer, all buying up more and more properties, cleanign up and then buying more and more, while the likes of you and I continue to struggle. Capitalism is the thin end of returning to the dickesn days of those who have and those who dont. And those who have, will want for nothing.

[redrosetints]

I would have thought it was clear from previous posts, but ok in summary:

 

The 1st paragraph is horseshit:

"she is one of our greatest PMs" - by what measure? The boom bust economy? Black Wednesday (my mate cried at his desk at work that day)?, record unemployment?, the poll tax?, the crippling (rather than taming) of the unions?, the greed is good/look after number one society she promoted?, her autocratic leadership style? her corrupt cabinet? her war in the Falklands?

 

2nd paragraph - Retarded blinkered gibberish:

This country was in dire straits when she took over as PM, as was Germany when Hitler took over. A country has to be in dire straits to elect someone like that. "She turned the country round..overall prosperity returned"? Overall?? Only if you take an average and apply it across the board. The reality was that prosperity was heaped upon a very small few, whilst the vast majority were much much worse off. How can you say overall prosperity returned when the country had it's worst unemployment record in history? If memory serves, she even changed the way that unemployment was calculated (twice) because it making the news headlines every night. "She stood shoulder to shoulder with Reagan and defeated Communism to reduce the threat of nuclear war"? Nowhere in all the recording I have seen about the fall of communism have I seen Thatcher credited with playing any part in it whatsoever. She allowed the americans to base a nuclear threat in the UK, if that's what you mean?

 

Paragraph 3 is twattish nonsense:

She is given credit for our current strong economy even though she was last in power in 1990, but a perceived problem with our economy is not her fault because it was 1990 when she was last in power. A similar treatment is given to her "mistakes". Would it have been possible to give some sort of aid to those areas affected by her policies? You mean most of the fucking country outside London and the home counties? Aid?? Fucking Aid? Those parts of the country are parts of HER country. As PM she was tasked with looking after the whole fucking country. If her policies decimated whole communities and sectors of the economy, she had an absolute responsibility to address it, not hand out some sort of fucking aid.

 

Paragraph 4 is cretinous drivel:

I haven't seen any anti-Thatcher propaganda in the media, and to suggest that the vitriol felt towards her is media generated is pathetic. She is despised by the people that lived through her reign because she was a cunt. We were there. She was a cunt. Nothing in the media can change my view on that.We also get treated in this paragraph to another lesson on averages, on the wholes, overalls, and by and larges. The number of losers wasn't minimised. It was in fact totally the opposite. She gave not one tiny part of a flying fuck how many losers there were as long as the few winners won big.

 

Paragraph 5 - moronic rhetoric:

No other leader has endured such personal abuse? Why is that then mate? Are we all just brain-washed media monkeys, or perhaps it's because she was an evil cunt? The unions and the public sector has been somehow responsible for how Thatcher is remembered through their vilification of her? What?? How?? Fuck off.

 

Paragraph 6 - some sense, then more bollocks.

 

She made many mistakes. Agreed. Despite the high taxing, high spending, low accountability and short-termism Labour administrations? Are we giving Thatcher credit now for the current economy again? There was a famous election campaign run by Thatcher's government where they put up billboards showing a large bomb and talking about Labour putting up taxes if they got into power. Tories won the elction and in the very next budget put up taxes. Low accountability? Her cabinet was riddled with corruption, perversion, and scandal. "Political sleaze" was a phrase coined by the media during Thatcher's reign for fucks sake. Mellor was banging some whore (and making the poor bitch wear a Chelsea shirt while he did it), Cecil Parkinson banged his secretary, lied about it, she had a kid by him, he lied about that, he left cabinet for a short while and then came back! Accountability? Jeffrey Archer, the darling of the Tories? A lying cheating weasel of a cunt. Not to mention a couple of MPs found to be banging rent boys, one that hung himself as a result, and the Westland affair? The list goes on.

 

Final line - a crap joke:

 

"The best peace-time PM of the 20th century"? She was a fucking disgrace. Anyone that voted for her, particularly once we knew what she was about, should be fucking ashamed of themselves. She was a cunt, and FortressAnfield's post is, as I said, utter bollocks.

 

Will that do weeksie?

 

I've always liked you Noos. Respect increases by the day with analysis like that !

[Strontium]

No, what thatcherdid was to unleash a fully free market on us. Which is great at first but were just starting to see the rewards for that folly. In a free market, little people make some gains, in the short term. You sell your council house to make a bit, but in the grand scheme of things, only those of wealth will make under capitalism. We see it everywhere, the death of independent pubs and shops, supermarkets. Wealth attracts wealth. Thats why first time buyers can't afford houses, as its not your auntie vera, who sold her Council house who are buying up new properties now, its your top footie star, your city worker, your art dealer, all buying up more and more properties, cleanign up and then buying more and more, while the likes of you and I continue to struggle. Capitalism is the thin end of returning to the dickesn days of those who have and those who dont. And those who have, will want for nothing.

 

That's a bit of a black-and-white view of capitalism you have there.

 

I agree that Thatcher's laissez-faire capitalism and unrestrained free market was immensely damaging to those of us at the thin end of the wedge, but that's not the whole story.

 

If you properly manage capitalism, you can bring people out of poverty and into prosperity. If you let it roam unchecked, as Thatcher did, it'll destroy lives (and make a lot of people very rich). The situation, however, ain't as simple as CAPITALISM BAD FREE MARKET BAD.

[Stu Monty]

That's a bit of a black-and-white view of capitalism you have there.

 

I agree that Thatcher's laissez-faire capitalism and unrestrained free market was immensely damaging to those of us at the thin end of the wedge, but that's not the whole story.

 

If you properly manage capitalism, you can bring people out of poverty and into prosperity. If you let it roam unchecked, as Thatcher did, it'll destroy lives (and make a lot of people very rich). The situation, however, ain't as simple as CAPITALISM BAD FREE MARKET BAD.

 

I had an ace discussion with one of my mates, when we got back to mine at about 2.00am one morning after a night on the beer, and he went some way to convincing me of his point of view: that being that capitalism is the best form of government but only if it is regulated and monitored properly by a strong and socially responsible government. This partnership we are still to really see. Didn't want to steer the thread away from Thatcher too much but there you have it.

[Paul]

This is a really good thread. If only this level of energy and passion existed about the current political landscape.

[Guest PaddyBerger15]

I would have thought it was clear from previous posts, but ok in summary:

 

The 1st paragraph is horseshit:

"she is one of our greatest PMs" - by what measure? The boom bust economy? Black Wednesday (my mate cried at his desk at work that day)?, record unemployment?, the poll tax?, the crippling (rather than taming) of the unions?, the greed is good/look after number one society she promoted?, her autocratic leadership style? her corrupt cabinet? her war in the Falklands?

 

2nd paragraph - Retarded blinkered gibberish:

This country was in dire straits when she took over as PM, as was Germany when Hitler took over. A country has to be in dire straits to elect someone like that. "She turned the country round..overall prosperity returned"? Overall?? Only if you take an average and apply it across the board. The reality was that prosperity was heaped upon a very small few, whilst the vast majority were much much worse off. How can you say overall prosperity returned when the country had it's worst unemployment record in history? If memory serves, she even changed the way that unemployment was calculated (twice) because it making the news headlines every night. "She stood shoulder to shoulder with Reagan and defeated Communism to reduce the threat of nuclear war"? Nowhere in all the recording I have seen about the fall of communism have I seen Thatcher credited with playing any part in it whatsoever. She allowed the americans to base a nuclear threat in the UK, if that's what you mean?

 

Paragraph 3 is twattish nonsense:

She is given credit for our current strong economy even though she was last in power in 1990, but a perceived problem with our economy is not her fault because it was 1990 when she was last in power. A similar treatment is given to her "mistakes". Would it have been possible to give some sort of aid to those areas affected by her policies? You mean most of the fucking country outside London and the home counties? Aid?? Fucking Aid? Those parts of the country are parts of HER country. As PM she was tasked with looking after the whole fucking country. If her policies decimated whole communities and sectors of the economy, she had an absolute responsibility to address it, not hand out some sort of fucking aid.

 

Paragraph 4 is cretinous drivel:

I haven't seen any anti-Thatcher propaganda in the media, and to suggest that the vitriol felt towards her is media generated is pathetic. She is despised by the people that lived through her reign because she was a cunt. We were there. She was a cunt. Nothing in the media can change my view on that.We also get treated in this paragraph to another lesson on averages, on the wholes, overalls, and by and larges. The number of losers wasn't minimised. It was in fact totally the opposite. She gave not one tiny part of a flying fuck how many losers there were as long as the few winners won big.

 

Paragraph 5 - moronic rhetoric:

No other leader has endured such personal abuse? Why is that then mate? Are we all just brain-washed media monkeys, or perhaps it's because she was an evil cunt? The unions and the public sector has been somehow responsible for how Thatcher is remembered through their vilification of her? What?? How?? Fuck off.

 

Paragraph 6 - some sense, then more bollocks.

 

She made many mistakes. Agreed. Despite the high taxing, high spending, low accountability and short-termism Labour administrations? Are we giving Thatcher credit now for the current economy again? There was a famous election campaign run by Thatcher's government where they put up billboards showing a large bomb and talking about Labour putting up taxes if they got into power. Tories won the elction and in the very next budget put up taxes. Low accountability? Her cabinet was riddled with corruption, perversion, and scandal. "Political sleaze" was a phrase coined by the media during Thatcher's reign for fucks sake. Mellor was banging some whore (and making the poor bitch wear a Chelsea shirt while he did it), Cecil Parkinson banged his secretary, lied about it, she had a kid by him, he lied about that, he left cabinet for a short while and then came back! Accountability? Jeffrey Archer, the darling of the Tories? A lying cheating weasel of a cunt. Not to mention a couple of MPs found to be banging rent boys, one that hung himself as a result, and the Westland affair? The list goes on.

 

Final line - a crap joke:

 

"The best peace-time PM of the 20th century"? She was a fucking disgrace. Anyone that voted for her, particularly once we knew what she was about, should be fucking ashamed of themselves. She was a cunt, and FortressAnfield's post is, as I said, utter bollocks.

 

Will that do weeksie?

 

Jeez mate, that is one immense, monster of a post. That should be printed off and framed, such is its accuracy and impact.

I take my hat off to you, that was a cracking read.:yes:

[Rush 346]

This is a really good thread. If only this level of energy and passion existed about the current political landscape.

 

Your right a cracking thread, plenty of people showing their true colours!

[sh#t waffle]

I had an ace discussion with one of my mates, when we got back to mine at about 2.00am one morning after a night on the beer, and he went some way to convincing me of his point of view: that being that capitalism is the best form of government but only if it is regulated and monitored properly by a strong and socially responsible government. This partnership we are still to really see. Didn't want to steer the thread away from Thatcher too much but there you have it.

 

I think we have to accept that capitalism is likely to be the dominant economic model for the forseeable future. But with some redistribution of wealth via high corporation/rich people's tax, slightly stronger (as someone said earlier, tamed but not destroyed) unions, a less rampant desire to privatise every troublesome industry, then something akin to equality of opportunity can exist. Thatcher seemed to believe that she could justify decimating the working class by attributing guilt to those who weren't able to rise out of the shit she created, which is so far from equality of opportunity it is unreal.

[Section_31]

attributing guilt to those who weren't able to rise out of the shit she created, which is so far from equality of opportunity it is unreal.

 

 

Truer words were never spoken.

 

The Conservative credo is that 'Mr Smith is rich and Mr Jones is poor because Mr Smith 'works harder and saves harder'' And the poor should 'get on their bikes' etc etc.

 

The 'Cartoon world' of the Tories.

 

Its all bullshit, and don't think for one minute most of them don't still believe it.

 

As was said earlier we don't even live in a free market, if it was I'd be able to get a princes trust grant, and open a fruit and veg shop without Tesco standing on it.

 

What kind of society is it where private developers can buy and buy and buy property while your average family can't even afford a house?

 

The original economic theory uderpinning what the conservatives believe is that capitalism somehow guarantees personal fredom, and that increased involvement of the state in peoples lives is a one way ticket to an 'Orwellian nightmare'. All very nice if the theory was sound, but instead of being enslaved by 'the state' the modern man is enslaved by the corporation.

 

People are tied to their debts and their mortgages, working jobs they hate and living lives they can't stand for fear of losing what little advances on the ladder they've made.

 

It was a running joke that citizens of Soviet era nations escaped their shitty lot in life at the bottom of an empty Vodka bottle, lamenting en mass the fact they were stuck in a hole and going nowhere, it reminds me of our own binge drinking culture.

 

Boris used to trudge around in the snow cursing the state, Joe Bloggs trudges around the Trafford Centre with the latest phone and thinks he's happy, but deep down knows he has nothing worth having, all the while his boss eats dinner at the Rotary club.

[Paul]

I had an ace discussion with one of my mates, when we got back to mine at about 2.00am one morning after a night on the beer, and he went some way to convincing me of his point of view: that being that capitalism is the best form of government but only if it is regulated and monitored properly by a strong and socially responsible government. This partnership we are still to really see. Didn't want to steer the thread away from Thatcher too much but there you have it.

 

I reckon the best form of government is benign dictatorship.

[Stu Monty]

I reckon the best form of government is benign dictatorship.

 

You spelt my surname wrong again.

[Paul]

You spelt my surname wrong again.

 

Whoosh.