The Premiership or First Division?

[tokyojoe]

Players of today would probably get a hernia if they tried kicking one of the balls from days gone by.

 

 

 

 

 

 

* Shite, I'm officially old now, talking about how the football has changed since "my day".

 

And the state of the pitch sometimes.

 

I always remember Derby County's bog. No wonder they won the league, they were the only ones who could play on it.

[cochcaer]

Players of today would probably get a hernia if they tried kicking one of the balls from days gone by.

 

So modern players are fit, Heskey and Cisse can bomb around at 100mph, but could they pass like Molby or even a modern day throwback like Gazza? Pass? They struggle to trap a ball. Never ceases to amaze me how many Premiership players struggle with the basics and are just athletes in footy boots.

 

Most modern players are robotic and just run through a series of set tactics (apart from South Americans who aren't so indoctrinated). In terms of skill and creativity there's naff all in the Premiership bar Henry, Rooney and a few others.

 

And the likes of Kenny and Best played in an era when you didn't need to dive coz you were hacked down proper, given the referee protection plastic Ronaldo and Robben get they'd have a field day.

[Son of L8]

A comparison of players from then and now isn't really workable, because of context. "When" would they be playing against one another? If you tried to stick a load of today's flash lightweight footballers into a match played thirty years ago, they'd fail miserably -- probably limp off the pitch in tears. If you tried to stick a load of yesterday's footballers in the match played tomorrow, they'd fail miserably -- undone by the pace of the game, and probably half of them sent off by halftime. If someone like say Keegan or Heighway had been born, trained and played in today's game, or someone like Roy Keane born, trained and played in the sixties... Well, who knows? It's not an answerable question.

 

As for which was better -- a twofold answer. I think the days of the first division were miles better for the matchgoing fan, and the Premiership era is miles better for the casual, armchair or long-distance fan. I think the pace of Premiership football has shortened crowds' attention spans, raised expectations of entertainment from the pitch to the point where many supporters are more likely to sit and wait for something to happen than entertain ourselves and less patient with what happens in the match... Coupled with the effect of "globalising" support through telly and electronic means, the mixed bag at the ground, dilutes and in some cases even eradicates the concept of a unique, self-contained culture or society on the terraces of a "popular" club. So ultimately, in today's football, going the match once a week is simply less fun and interesting than it used to be.

 

Of course, back then if you wanted more than one match a week, you'd have to get your mates down the park and put it on yourself. These days, you can watch football for almost as many hours a week as you please, record it, watch it again, get two tellies in and watch two matches at once if you feel like it. You see a lot more of it. By simple volume, you learn more about it, broaden your views or horizons about the game, watch the match from Australia or Argentina if you fancy it.

 

I suppose it's just a product of the times, really. It's better to be an armchair student of the game today, and it's getting damn near impossible to be the workingclass man on the terraces whose week revolves around his saturday afternoon at the football. It's change. But I'd romantically like to think the old way was better. My vote's for the old days.

[Guest Momo Sissoko]

I don't think the pace has quickened that much. In fact I've seen games this season that were a lot slower than games played in the seventies and eighties.

[derykw]

20 years is quiet a lot of time. If I was talking from my memories of the time I would surely would speak better of the football played then (I was younger and that makes you enjoy things more too). But not, I am talking after watching a lot of footage from that time recently, and not only highlights but full games. Sometimes I am watching a game and a player gets a pass, and my instinctive reaction is "Offside" but then you have a defender having a cup of tea with his goalie and the attacker is on. I see players standing still with their ball at their feet and no a single player harassing them. I would even argue that some summer friendly games of today have more competitiveness that a few European Cup finals I have watched. Under those circumstances it is much easier to look good.

And I don't think it is only fitness levels that have imporve. Players are technically better too, perhaps not in England where there has been a strong bias towards athleticism in recent years, but I can tell you that in Spain, and in Europe in general you have players far more comfortable on the ball than in the eighties, with the odd exception of that ball winner in midfield that every top team seem to have nowadays, and that lack great ball skills.

 

 

How can you say todays footballers are better on the ball than players from 20 years ago.Take Liverpool for example,we had players like Hansen,Whelan,Souness,Dalglish,Molby,Lawrenson ,Barnes and numerous others.Do you honestly think players of that calibre wouldn`t cut it against todays lot.Taking things a step further,who were the world stars from around the mid eighties?Maradona,Platini,Zico,Socrates,Rummenigger,Rushy,Brietner,Tigana,Van Basten,Gullit,Koeman,Butregueno! and all the others that I can`t recall right now.I think that little group might just have been able to hold their own in the present day.Don`t you?And as a final aside,try comparing the current Scotland squad to the one in the 70s and 80s,it isn`t even a contest.

[Stu Monty]

Comparing Heskey to the cream of the past isn't a fair comparison is it? Find a massively average player for a massively shite team back in the seventies and compare him to Heskey, then it's fair.

 

As athletes and also as technical players the average premiership player pisses all over the average first division player from what I have seen. And the hardness aspect means nothing really, anyone can cripple someone else, it doesn't take skill believe me.

 

Think back to that match of the day a couple fo weeks back where "Goal of the day" was as good as "Goal of the season" usually is and tell me that the standard is poorer. And the goals were from the likes of Wigan, Everton and Boro against vastly superior goalkeepers so what does that tell you?

[Stu Monty]

How can you say todays footballers are better on the ball than players from 20 years ago.Take Liverpool for example,we had players like Hansen,Whelan,Souness,Dalglish,Molby,Lawrenson ,Barnes and numerous others.Do you honestly think players of that calibre wouldn`t cut it against todays lot.Taking things a step further,who were the world stars from around the mid eighties?Maradona,Platini,Zico,Socrates,Rummenigger,Rushy,Brietner,Tigana,Van Basten,Gullit,Koeman,Butregueno! and all the others that I can`t recall right now.I think that little group might just have been able to hold their own in the present day.Don`t you?And as a final aside,try comparing the current Scotland squad to the one in the 70s and 80s,it isn`t even a contest.

 

Try comparing the current Czech squad to the seventies one. Rises and falls.

[kop]

Comparing Heskey to the cream of the past isn't a fair comparison is it? Find a massively average player for a massively shite team back in the seventies and compare him to Heskey, then it's fair.

 

As athletes and also as technical players the average premiership player pisses all over the average first division player from what I have seen. And the hardness aspect means nothing really, anyone can cripple someone else, it doesn't take skill believe me.

 

Think back to that match of the day a couple fo weeks back where "Goal of the day" was as good as "Goal of the season" usually is and tell me that the standard is poorer. And the goals were from the likes of Wigan, Everton and Boro against vastly superior goalkeepers so what does that tell you?

 

And that, my good man, is the truth.

[kop]

Try comparing the current Czech squad to the seventies one. Rises and falls.

 

One apparent flaw in this statement aside; you're once again spot on.

[derykw]

Try comparing the current Czech squad to the seventies one. Rises and falls.

 

The Czechs were European Champions in 1976.

[cochcaer]

Comparing Heskey to the cream of the past isn't a fair comparison is it? Find a massively average player for a massively shite team back in the seventies and compare him to Heskey, then it's fair.

 

I know it's unpalatable but Heskey is/was an England intenatonal (capped more than Keegan), played for Liverpool, has European club experience and a few medals.

 

Phil Stamp he aint.

 

I'd blacked it out too but it did happen.... then again....

[derykw]

Comparing Heskey to the cream of the past isn't a fair comparison is it? Find a massively average player for a massively shite team back in the seventies and compare him to Heskey, then it's fair.

 

As athletes and also as technical players the average premiership player pisses all over the average first division player from what I have seen. And the hardness aspect means nothing really, anyone can cripple someone else, it doesn't take skill believe me.

 

Think back to that match of the day a couple fo weeks back where "Goal of the day" was as good as "Goal of the season" usually is and tell me that the standard is poorer. And the goals were from the likes of Wigan, Everton and Boro against vastly superior goalkeepers so what does that tell you?

 

Vastly superior goalkeepers?your having a laugh.Remember when England could call upon Clemence,Shilton and Corrigan?who have they got now? Calamity James,the only decent one is Paul Robinson.And what about the likes of Southall,Grobbelaar,Paul Cooper,Pat Jennings,Jimmy Rimmer,Chris Woods etc.All them would walk into most Prem teams today.

[Stu Monty]

Vastly superior goalkeepers?your having a laugh.Remember when England could call upon Clemence,Shilton and Corrigan?who have they got now? Calamity James,the only decent one is Paul Robinson.And what about the likes of Southall,Grobbelaar,Paul Cooper,Pat Jennings,Jimmy Rimmer,Chris Woods etc.All them would walk into most Prem teams today.

 

Don't be soft. The premiership has possibly the best keepers in the world. Have you ever seen the pie-eating lard-arses that littered the first division. Watch those season reviews and the thing that strikes you most is the appaling keeping. We're talking the average standard here so Clemence v Robinson isn't the point.

[Guest TK-421]

Modern football is better there is too much cheating and scrutiny of referees but the postiives outweight the negatives. The game is faster and more happens over 90 mins than it ever used to, spectacular goals are scored week in week out, incredible saves are made, last ditch tackles. The PL is everything the First Div used to be but more. I admit its overhyped and all that but football wise it kicks arse. La Liga is up there too. Serie A has fallen from grace a bit. I vote PL.

[Paul]

As for which was better -- a twofold answer. I think the days of the first division were miles better for the matchgoing fan, and the Premiership era is miles better for the casual, armchair or long-distance fan. I think the pace of Premiership football has shortened crowds' attention spans, raised expectations of entertainment from the pitch to the point where many supporters are more likely to sit and wait for something to happen than entertain ourselves and less patient with what happens in the match... Coupled with the effect of "globalising" support through telly and electronic means, the mixed bag at the ground, dilutes and in some cases even eradicates the concept of a unique, self-contained culture or society on the terraces of a "popular" club. So ultimately, in today's football, going the match once a week is simply less fun and interesting than it used to be.

 

I suppose it's just a product of the times, really. It's better to be an armchair student of the game today, and it's getting damn near impossible to be the workingclass man on the terraces whose week revolves around his saturday afternoon at the football. It's change. But I'd romantically like to think the old way was better. My vote's for the old days.

Loads of good points here. I think that my answer is based almost entirely upon the fact that I can't get to the match much anymore. Therefore, the almost entirely televised Premiership is ideal for me. Having said that, I'd still want televised games even if I had that ever-fucking elusive ST.

[cochcaer]

Don't be soft. The premiership has possibly the best keepers in the world. Have you ever seen the pie-eating lard-arses that littered the first division.

 

Pains me to say it but that fat scruff from over the park was some keeper at his in his prime. Problem with modern day keepers is they're great shot stoppers but laughable at catching crosses.

 

Apart from Schmeical who is still different class to any current Premiership stopper. Robinson is the best and frankly he's nothing more than conservative.

[Spanish_fan]

Don't be soft. The premiership has possibly the best keepers in the world. Have you ever seen the pie-eating lard-arses that littered the first division. Watch those season reviews and the thing that strikes you most is the appaling keeping. We're talking the average standard here so Clemence v Robinson isn't the point.

 

Not even Clemence would be a great goalkeeper in today's Premiership. I used to think that Garcia Remon and Miguel Angel, two Real Madrid goalkeepers of the 70's 80's were Superman flying in the sky. When I see them now they are nowhere near as good as I though they were.

 

And it is funny what you are saying and completely true. If you go back more in the past you see keepers than don;t even dive to save a shot, absolutely apalling.

 

BTW I have watched a few games from the early seventies like the Arsenal Liverpool Cup final of 1971 and I didnt see any bad fouling at all, not a single bad tackle in the game. Yes I know there were a lot of bruisers in the 70's and you would see some very bad tackles, but if anything today star performers have it much tougher as there is alot of TACTICAL FOULING that didn't exist in the past.

 

The ones who disagree, are you talking from memory or from viewing those matches recently?. Talking from nostalgia is a dangerous thing.

[Spanish_fan]

How can you say todays footballers are better on the ball than players from 20 years ago.Take Liverpool for example,we had players like Hansen,Whelan,Souness,Dalglish,Molby,Lawrenson ,Barnes and numerous others.Do you honestly think players of that calibre wouldn`t cut it against todays lot.Taking things a step further,who were the world stars from around the mid eighties?Maradona,Platini,Zico,Socrates,Rummenigger,Rushy,Brietner,Tigana,Van Basten,Gullit,Koeman,Butregueno! and all the others that I can`t recall right now.I think that little group might just have been able to hold their own in the present day.Don`t you?And as a final aside,try comparing the current Scotland squad to the one in the 70s and 80s,it isn`t even a contest.

 

For the Scotland comparison you have received an adequate replay. I bet that the current Scotland NT would beat the Scotland of the 80's BTW.

 

On your first point obviously there is always been great technical players, but so is the case of today's game. I copuld give you a list of outstanding talents in todauys games. What I am saying is that the AVERAGE STANDARD has improved in every sense. I strongly disagree with the ones who say for instance that the current Manchester United team is far worse than the one in the mid 90's . How can you say that when a team as limited as Blackburn won the League and came second in another season?. I saw United at the Camp Nou with players who would be playing today for Everton or Charlton (Bruce, Pallister, Parker). Not, it is not that the standards at United have dropped, it is that other teams have got better. Yes, they were demolishing teams left and right, but if their competition was Blackburn, who went out in the first qualifying round against and Easter European team that today probably Everton would beat.... You see teams at the pomp of United years that would leave huge gaps at the back, tactically very poor. Still you see that today to a certain extent but nowhere near as bad as 10 years ago.

[cochcaer]

I saw United at the Camp Nou with players who would be playing today for Everton or Charlton (Bruce, Pallister, Parke)

 

Dumbest post ever. No shit. The United midfield back then would have no doubt consisted of the likes of Giggs Sharpe, Keane, Scholes, Ince, Beckham, Kanchelskis.

 

The likes of plastic Ronaldo, O'Shea, Fletcher, Fortune, Lee Pong Sue (or whatever his name is) wouldn't have even got on the field.

 

btw Pallister would no way be in a mid-table team today. Not on your nelly.

[cochcaer]

The ones who disagree, are you talking from memory or from viewing those matches recently?. Talking from nostalgia is a dangerous thing.

 

Was chuckling away to myself about this watching Reina today. Rabbit in the headlights with anything lifted up.

[Guest TK-421]

Was chuckling away to myself about this watching Reina today. Rabbit in the headlights with anything lifted up.

 

Today was the day when his punching cost us, should never have come for that, still a crap header from Riise though where's his right foot?

 

Thanks to Lil' Luis (you belter) Reina's one big mishap didn't cost us, I thought the rest of his punching was effective and he did well to make himself big in 1 on 1's with Drogba and J Cole thank God for their woeful finishing! Come on Red Men!!!!

[derykw]

For the Scotland comparison you have received an adequate replay. I bet that the current Scotland NT would beat the Scotland of the 80's BTW.

 

On your first point obviously there is always been great technical players, but so is the case of today's game. I copuld give you a list of outstanding talents in todauys games. What I am saying is that the AVERAGE STANDARD has improved in every sense. I strongly disagree with the ones who say for instance that the current Manchester United team is far worse than the one in the mid 90's . How can you say that when a team as limited as Blackburn won the League and came second in another season?. I saw United at the Camp Nou with players who would be playing today for Everton or Charlton (Bruce, Pallister, Parker). Not, it is not that the standards at United have dropped, it is that other teams have got better. Yes, they were demolishing teams left and right, but if their competition was Blackburn, who went out in the first qualifying round against and Easter European team that today probably Everton would beat.... You see teams at the pomp of United years that would leave huge gaps at the back, tactically very poor. Still you see that today to a certain extent but nowhere near as bad as 10 years ago.

 

The adequate reply for the scotland quote I easily put to bed,The Czechs in the 70s were Euro champs the current lot have won nothing.

And apparently Clemence v Robinson isn`t a fair comparision! why not they were/are both Englands number 1,it`s the perfect example.Who today is better than Maradona or Platini?not even Ronaldhino.And with respect but if you think todays Scotland would beat the 80s lot with the likes of Dalglish,Souness,Hansen,John Robertson,Gordon Strachan et al,then you are an absolute plank.