Is Trent Really Worth It?

[Moo]

At our best Trent always had a good midfielder to drop into RB/RWB when the need arose.  If Trent is that midfielder, if he was to continue in the hybrid role, who will drop into RB when the need arises? It seems that would mostly have to be the RCB which pulls everyone out of shape. That's how it's been so far.  Do not like.

[TD_LFC]

5 minutes ago, Moo said:

At our best Trent always had a good midfielder to drop into RB/RWB when the need arose.  If Trent is that midfielder, if he was to continue in the hybrid role, who will drop into RB when the need arises? It seems that would mostly have to be the RCB which pulls everyone out of shape. That's how it's been so far.  Do not like.

 

It was the right sided midfielder in a 2-3 it's now the right sided CB in a 3-2, it's hardly a massive change.

 

Trent is also a damn site closer to the backline now than he was in the old system so you know he could also drop in as well.

 

This is all being judged in a period where we've had to work on, and bed it in, mid season and before we have players best suited to the system.

[3 Stacks]

I think people have this idea that Henderson used to lock down the right side like Lahm whilst Trent was galivanting forward. Not sure it was ever like that.

[stringvest]

1 hour ago, 3 Stacks said:

I think people have this idea that Henderson used to lock down the right side like Lahm whilst Trent was galivanting forward. Not sure it was ever like that.

 

I know, it's pure delusion.  Larry the Lahm maybe.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

12 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

I think people have this idea that Henderson used to lock down the right side like Lahm whilst Trent was galivanting forward. Not sure it was ever like that.

It was undeniably like that.

[VladimirIlyich]

Trent 'L'Oreal' Alexander Arnold.

[3 Stacks]

1 hour ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

It was undeniably like that.

Nah.

[TheHowieLama]

I'd say the fact that we conceded the least in the league two years running suggests it is not the freeway it has become.

[Aventus]

14 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

I think people have this idea that Henderson used to lock down the right side like Lahm whilst Trent was galivanting forward. Not sure it was ever like that.

Well it's not like he ever full on sprinted into a deep right back role every time Trent went forwards, but it's undeniable that he filled the channel behind Trent fairly regularly in every game. It's literally one of the main things we built our tactics around. 

[Barrington Womble]

i don't see it as shoehorning at all. Football is evolving and in Trent we have one of the smartest football brains in the world on the pitch, which will help make it work, so let him go and do his stuff. 

[an tha]

Hendo was very good at helping down the right when TAA was bombing on.

 

A combination of positional awareness and nous and before his legs went made him ideal at it and it worked beautifully.

 

I've said it before and i stand by it - we would improve massively if we had a midfield 3 who could to a high level what our 3 did between about 2017-2020.

 

Hendo snuffing out stuff and helping on the right was a big part of that....a lot of the danger was snuffed out before it became very dangerous - a foot in, a 2nd ball won, a bit of dropping in....It all helped us exert control, pin teams in and deal with danger when they broke......We won more ball to get it to the forwards and marauding full backs quicker and in more dangerous situations/more space.

[Lario]

21 hours ago, Section_31 said:

Second best passer of the ball in the league after KDB. Might one day be the best. 

 

A major risk at rb though unless the midfield is pulling its weight. I don't know what the answer is. Maybe he can fulfil the non crocked Thiago roll at some point.

KDB my arse!

 

He plays the ball into areas that the other players are coached to run into. He doesn't have to look up. Just play the ball deep to the back post and someone is coming in on it.

 

Trent is a better picker of passes IMO.

[VladimirIlyich]

1 hour ago, Lario said:

KDB my arse!

 

He plays the ball into areas that the other players are coached to run into. He doesn't have to look up. Just play the ball deep to the back post and someone is coming in on it.

 

Trent is a better picker of passes IMO.

While it's normal to big your own players up I don't think Trent is anywhere near KDB. He's done OK in the hybrid role in possession but I still have my doubts about him out of possession.

[Moo]

He'd be absolutely brilliant sitting at the base of a four man diamond midfield, but that's a total luxury role and not a system we would ever play under Klopp.  Other than that I really don't see him as a CM at all.

[Captain Turdseye]

Interesting opinions in here. 
 

1 - Play him upfront - haha

2 - New midfield three, Trent back in his old RB role - That’s the problem, isn’t it. He was being targeted by teams, which essentially makes him our weak link at the back. There’s no denying that it’s been an issue and I don’t see how a midfielder that runs more than Hendo instantly fixes those things. 
 

3 - Persist with him moving into midfield as he has been - We’re not good enough using that system to challenge for the big pots. Do new midfielders fix that? I don’t know. I guess the answer remains to be seen if option 3 is what Jurgen is going with. We’re gonna need new defenders too. The definition of building a team around him. 
 

 

Another thing, we’ve been pretty much without proper cover for Trent at RB. We’re certainly without cover for Trent v2.0. What happens when he gets injured? Not only do we have no cover, we could end up in a situation where we’re bringing in Ramsay/Bradley and having to revert to the old tried and tested 4-3-3. 

[Moo]

6 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

Interesting opinions in here. 
 

1 - Play him upfront - haha

2 - New midfield three, Trent back in his old RB role - That’s the problem, isn’t it. He was being targeted by teams, which essentially makes him our weak link at the back. There’s no denying that it’s been an issue and I don’t see how a midfielder that runs more than Hendo instantly fixes those things. 
 

3 - Persist with him moving into midfield as he has been - We’re not good enough using that system to challenge for the big pots. Do new midfielders fix that? I don’t know. I guess the answer remains to be seen if option 3 is what Jurgen is going with. We’re gonna need new defenders too. The definition of building a team around him. 
 

 

Another thing, we’ve been pretty much without proper cover for Trent at RB. We’re certainly without cover for Trent v2.0. What happens when he gets injured? Not only do we have no cover, we could end up in a situation where we’re bringing in Ramsay/Bradley and having to revert to the old tried and tested 4-3-3. 

 

He was targeted from early on, remember the Mancs/Rashford at Old Trafford in March 2018?  He's been fair game ever since for the opposition but as a team we've more than covered that through protecting him and being the better team overall, at least prior to last season.

[TheHowieLama]

I'd much rather a side trying to play it over his head than simply walking it through the middle at will.

[Captain Turdseye]

7 minutes ago, Moo said:

 

He was targeted from early on, remember the Mancs/Rashford at Old Trafford in March 2018?  He's been fair game ever since for the opposition but as a team we've more than covered that through protecting him and being the better team overall, at least prior to last season.

 

But his defending is/has been noticeably worse. That has to come into the discussion. That’s why he’s in this hybrid role now.
 

I remember earlier in the season he had one game that was really good in defensively. Pundits were talking about how he’d changed his body shape when defending one-on-one, being more aggressive, yadda yadda yadda. A week or two later and people were walking through him again or he was shitting out of headers at the back post. 

[Captain Turdseye]

If it’s just a question of midfielders covering him then surely that’ll be rectified in the summer and we’ll start next season with Trent at RB again, same as ever. 
 

That’s not gonna happen though. Why?

[TD_LFC]

7 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

 

But his defending is/has been noticeably worse. That has to come into the discussion. That’s why he’s in this hybrid role now.

 

It's no more a 'hybrid role' than his previous role, his position in possesion has just changed from winger to midfielder.

 

The reason it's been easier to target him is because in addition to using Trent as a winger we've also been using the right sided centre mid as the most advanced of the midfield three and with Thiago/Fabinho creating more or a double pivot it's given Fab more distance to cover when trying to get across and plug the gap, Trent then has to travel further to get back into position.

 

Since we've changed system that's now covered by both Trent and the right sided centre back in the same way as it would if we were playing a traditional three at the back.

[TD_LFC]

3 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

If it’s just a question of midfielders covering him then surely that’ll be rectified in the summer and we’ll start next season with Trent at RB again, same as ever. 
 

That’s not gonna happen though. Why?

 

He plays right back now,

[3 Stacks]

People are overthinking this. Wherever he plays, you have to protect him anyway. It's like playing with a classic number 10 or an immobile deep lying playmaker, you have to provide balance elsewhere. It's the same concept. And he was fantastic in this hybrid position and looked far more motivated and refreshed.

 

The thread brings up a good question; it is fair to bring up whether playing with someone like him is worth the imbalance, but I think most would say it's worth it. He’s not Messi obviously, but most people would say it's been worth it with him too. You'd rather everyone on the pitch was elite on and off the ball and no one had any weaknesses, but that's just really difficult.

[TheHowieLama]

Alot of it is confirmation bias as well. Cancelo played in much the same way (tactically) for City first half of this season and he is certainly not a top defensive fullback. Bottom line is the ball moves quickly and it is tough to be in two spots at once. I think we have been more solid defensively when he has still been part of the two.

When he has dropped back and we are positionally in the "4" we have given up some really jammy golas.

[Captain Turdseye]

Another question. Were we really that good in the games where he’s been pushed into midfield? Honestly?
 

And another. Can you see us fighting for the league title lining up that way?

 

We aren’t Man City. They’re solid at the back and you can’t get the ball off them. We’re miles off being that team. 

[TheHowieLama]

Better certainly - fell like the last game was played like an exhibition match, starting with Klopp's lineup. Understandable.

 

I don't see us making a title challenge next season. Still too many players who atm are not of that standard. Feel like a good year is finishing second 8 points adrift. At least then we would be reeling them in and have got back on top of the rest of the pile.

 

See above - we are regardless of where Trent stands.