Emergency Ward 10 - The Injuries Thread

[Lee909]

2 minutes ago, Mathewbet1 said:

He had yelllow puss coming out of his ears

 

Probably out for 2 weeks then

[stringvest]

12 hours ago, an tha said:

Highly ironic all the talk about Nunez clocking fastest speed in PL the other night.....yeah great that and after doing it he can't play 3 days later.....

Yeah, fucking boo and all that

[Remmie]

Bad earache is no joke, it really fucking hurts. 

[Anubis]

With all these injuries we can’t afford players to be going in for 50/50s….

[YorkshireRed]

34 minutes ago, Remmie said:

Bad earache is no joke, it really fucking hurts. 

That reminds me. The wife and I celebrate 20 years together on Tuesday. 

[Barrington Womble]

17 hours ago, an tha said:

I don't believe much i see on twatter....but can anyone confirm or deny this?

 

We've brought loads in over the last few years too haven't we? We may have got rid, but I'm not so certain it would have been for cost cutting reasons. 

[an tha]

Just now, Barrington Womble said:

We've brought loads in over the last few years too haven't we? We may have got rid, but I'm not so certain it would have been for cost cutting reasons. 

I would be inclined to agree with you.

 

Something isn't right though - it has for my money gone past just 'bad luck' now with the amount of injuries across all areas of the squad.

[Barrington Womble]

@an tha

 

This is our backroom team, it doesn't look like it has been cost cut. 

 

https://anfieldwatch.co.uk/staff/

 

 

[Barrington Womble]

18 minutes ago, an tha said:

I would be inclined to agree with you.

 

Something isn't right though - it has for my money gone past just 'bad luck' now with the amount of injuries across all areas of the squad.

I think there's some thing we can look at. 

 

1. We played a lot earlier this year with all the cups etc. This included as the season finished our players playing when a blank weekend for the fa cup final, went on a week longer because of the CL and started a week earlier because of the charity shield. 

2. It seems there was some neglect of players who had injuries at the end of international duty. We have since let the club doctor go. 

3. We have some players who just get injured. Matip, konate, Gomez, thiago, Jones, Chamberlain & keita have records of not getting on the pitch much over the last 5 years. That's just continued. 

4. Some other players are showing some weakness. Robbo - I think he's been run into the ground as his international football has been tough too. Trent - we have no real cover. Jota - one of the players mistreated in the summer. 

5. As our squad ages, putting the miles in we're expecting either strain the older players or puts more pressure on those who do have the legs. 

 

And in the main, that covers most of our issues. Darwin has missed a game. Firmino a couple i think. Fab some minor knocks, but again, he gets them, same with Henderson. 

 

If a lot of injuries hit at once, it means those playing in a season like this are under more physical pressure and you maybe don't get a chance to take them out when they're in the red zone.

 

Finally, because of our late finish to the season and early start of this, I don't think we had enough in preseason and rest between. Klopp apparently worked them harder than ever, but if you look at minutes on the pitch for players before the season started, it just wasn't enough. We have set up a squad in the main is targeted at going as far as we can in the PL and CL, but with nothing but lip service to the domestic cups. Our good fitness record last season (especially 2nd half of the season), combined with better draws than we often get meant we just about had a squad to play in the domestic cups too, but that in turn has just put more and more minutes in players legs. 

 

I'm not sure we have any issues that couldn't easily be solved with not sticking by crocks and ensuring we just have enough players in their prime to be at their physical best. It probably would have still been hard after last season, but with a squad with less flakes we'd be fine imo. 

 

 

[an tha]

47 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

@an tha

 

This is our backroom team, it doesn't look like it has been cost cut. 

 

https://anfieldwatch.co.uk/staff/

 

 

Fair do's....ta.

[an tha]

35 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I think there's some thing we can look at. 

 

1. We played a lot earlier this year with all the cups etc. This included as the season finished our players playing when a blank weekend for the fa cup final, went on a week longer because of the CL and started a week earlier because of the charity shield. 

2. It seems there was some neglect of players who had injuries at the end of international duty. We have since let the club doctor go. 

3. We have some players who just get injured. Matip, konate, Gomez, thiago, Jones, Chamberlain & keita have records of not getting on the pitch much over the last 5 years. That's just continued. 

4. Some other players are showing some weakness. Robbo - I think he's been run into the ground as his international football has been tough too. Trent - we have no real cover. Jota - one of the players mistreated in the summer. 

5. As our squad ages, putting the miles in we're expecting either strain the older players or puts more pressure on those who do have the legs. 

 

And in the main, that covers most of our issues. Darwin has missed a game. Firmino a couple i think. Fab some minor knocks, but again, he gets them, same with Henderson. 

 

If a lot of injuries hit at once, it means those playing in a season like this are under more physical pressure and you maybe don't get a chance to take them out when they're in the red zone.

 

Finally, because of our late finish to the season and early start of this, I don't think we had enough in preseason and rest between. Klopp apparently worked them harder than ever, but if you look at minutes on the pitch for players before the season started, it just wasn't enough. We have set up a squad in the main is targeted at going as far as we can in the PL and CL, but with nothing but lip service to the domestic cups. Our good fitness record last season (especially 2nd half of the season), combined with better draws than we often get meant we just about had a squad to play in the domestic cups too, but that in turn has just put more and more minutes in players legs. 

 

I'm not sure we have any issues that couldn't easily be solved with not sticking by crocks and ensuring we just have enough players in their prime to be at their physical best. It probably would have still been hard after last season, but with a squad with less flakes we'd be fine imo. 

 

 

All fair points.

 

There are a few things that have happened that have not helped as well.

 

Matip for example had his best season last season for staying fit - why?....Because we managed his load by rotating him with Konate - when we had league, europe, league in space of a week we saw Matip play the league, Konate in europe and then Matip in league....2 games for Matip in the 7/8 days he was fine....3 is a different story.

 

This season from start there was no Konate to rotate with - Matip breaks down twice.

 

I like you don't think there is any one reason behind what's gone wrong, there's a list of reasons.....Just like in 20/21 injuries also have an accumulative effect. For example if Diaz isn't injured at Arsenal then Jota probably doesn't stay on for nigh on 100 minutes against Man City and go down at the death as he did.

 

The wastes of space in midfield - Keita and Oxlade getting injured yet again in pre season puts extra pressure on the others and of course the reduced options mean we can't then rotate as much/make changes in games we would if we had players available.

 

Our bench at times especially early in season was full of kids.

 

I'd say there is an argument that says we have thinned the squad to a level where there is not much if any room for carrying injury prone players and we simply have too many - this creates overburden, reduces our ability to make changes/rest/rotate and leads to more injuries.

 

I also feel we suffer from having players who are asked to cover more than one position....Gomez being our main RB back up when we only have 4 senior centre halves and when 2 are injured leaves us exposed when we then have a problem at RB....I appreciate we bought a young RB in summer - but of course he has been injured since he arrived!

It does feel as well though that the medical/coaching staff haven't prepared the players as well as they could physically for the season - the reduced time, the issues already discussed all being relevant - it still feels there is something just not right.

 

The break for that shite in Qatar may be a blessing in disguise for us....Question is whether we can make it work for us....The players who don't go to that shite can work on conditioning and we will have a host of players returning from injury, who hopefully will be ready when the league starts again.

 

If we can get at least close to a full squad being available and importantly add to it in the obvious area of need in Jan then things can get better.

 

We do IMO though need to be fucking ruthless in getting rid of the dead wood ASAP and bringing in some younger, more robust players.

 

 

[Barrington Womble]

34 minutes ago, an tha said:

All fair points.

 

There are a few things that have happened that have not helped as well.

 

Matip for example had his best season last season for staying fit - why?....Because we managed his load by rotating him with Konate - when we had league, europe, league in space of a week we saw Matip play the league, Konate in europe and then Matip in league....2 games for Matip in the 7/8 days he was fine....3 is a different story.

 

This season from start there was no Konate to rotate with - Matip breaks down twice.

 

I like you don't think there is any one reason behind what's gone wrong, there's a list of reasons.....Just like in 20/21 injuries also have an accumulative effect. For example if Diaz isn't injured at Arsenal then Jota probably doesn't stay on for nigh on 100 minutes against Man City and go down at the death as he did.

 

The wastes of space in midfield - Keita and Oxlade getting injured yet again in pre season puts extra pressure on the others and of course the reduced options mean we can't then rotate as much/make changes in games we would if we had players available.

 

Our bench at times especially early in season was full of kids.

 

I'd say there is an argument that says we have thinned the squad to a level where there is not much if any room for carrying injury prone players and we simply have too many - this creates overburden, reduces our ability to make changes/rest/rotate and leads to more injuries.

 

I also feel we suffer from having players who are asked to cover more than one position....Gomez being our main RB back up when we only have 4 senior centre halves and when 2 are injured leaves us exposed when we then have a problem at RB....I appreciate we bought a young RB in summer - but of course he has been injured since he arrived!

It does feel as well though that the medical/coaching staff haven't prepared the players as well as they could physically for the season - the reduced time, the issues already discussed all being relevant - it still feels there is something just not right.

 

The break for that shite in Qatar may be a blessing in disguise for us....Question is whether we can make it work for us....The players who don't go to that shite can work on conditioning and we will have a host of players returning from injury, who hopefully will be ready when the league starts again.

 

If we can get at least close to a full squad being available and importantly add to it in the obvious area of need in Jan then things can get better.

 

We do IMO though need to be fucking ruthless in getting rid of the dead wood ASAP and bringing in some younger, more robust players.

 

 

I agree with most of that. I agree with what you are saying around matip, although the flip side of that argument of course is we have 3 centre backs who don't have a history of getting on the pitch. And as you rightly point out we've been forced into using Gomez there. So I don't think that's bad luck, just as it wasn't in 20/21. In 20/21 we went with 3, 2 of which had poor injury records. The only shock was vvd got injured, but these things do happen. Gomez and matip missing in that period was what we were already accustomed to. Adding konate helps, but like lovren before him, he also doesn't have a record of robustness. 

 

This same issue is what we've seen play out in midfield this season (and I would argue a large.oart of the 1st half of last season). We have on the surface plenty of players, just not so many with a track record of getting on the pitch on a regular basis. 

 

So if we look at each of the sections of the pitch we shouldn't be short of players. We may have had some bad luck with Ramsey, but we have 8 players for 4 positions. Assuming 433, we have 8 midielders (excluding Melo and carvalho). We have 6 attackers for 3 positions (including carvalho). That should be enough and it's why people didn't laugh at klopp for proclaiming the same in the summer about the midfield, because it can be hard to argue, especially if you just count players and not combined availability. 

 

But the reality is we have some really fragile players. Konate, Gomez, matip and it would appear Ramsey out of the 8 at the back. Chamberlain, keita, Jones, thiago and to some extent fab & Henderson out of the 8 midfielders. The forwards seem less fragile, but there is a question of did we mismanage Jota and I would argue carvalho isn't ready to take a significant load. That's nearly half of our squad with question marks over them and when you are playing 3 games in a tight spaces of time, it becomes a 16 man game. And it's not just a question of having any 16 ready, it's a question of having suitable replacements for the players in the red zone. As you rightly.point out, jota's injury probably doesn't happen if it is not for the Diaz injury the week before. 

 

So for me it's a question of how we deal with it. It breaks into 2 simple parts for me. 

1. Get less fragile players in the squad

2. With so little respite between games and seasons becoming so sandwiched the 5 sub rule makes a lot of sense. But maybe to get the benefit of that change you need some additional players. 

 

I'm not certain about this 2nd part as I think the first part plays a part. But as we're a club that manages players out of the club slowly, I think we need to accept it is a cost of the 5 subs at least in the medium term as we refresh the squad, that we need more players. I'm ok with that being loans too as long as it's not fucking stupid ones like Melo where you bring in someone who's as fragile as anyone in our squad. But it might be a forever thing, an indication of an example of this is with 5 subs (and player workloads), there'll be 3 more players in this year's world cup squad than last. Maybe it's time for clubs to consider the same, especially those with the workloads like ours. 

 

 

[HBenn]

On 22/10/2022 at 19:19, an tha said:

I don't believe much i see on twatter....but can anyone confirm or deny this?

 

I think something cracked off that upset the staff.

One of those on the list, Rodriguez, was asked by a fan a short while later whether he would return to the club and he advised that there was no way he would unless a lot of things changed. 

I also find interesting that Massey left, I think after calling it his dream job, and his wife still works there. 

Interestingly, if you look up Rodriguez's tweets he liked one about the need for investment in the medical group and also sent a tweet to Massey asking a rhetorical question about the need for investment. 

Clearly something cracked off that pissed him off and the inference Andy Massey. They are probably not allowed to say much due to confidentiality agreements but would love to know why Rodriguez went.

[VladimirIlyich]

There must be something to do with the classification of injuries going on. As far as I know only the likes of Hendo,Millie and Robbo seem to shrug off niggles while VVD must be similar? Most others dont. How fragile are these cunts? 

[Paul]

21 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

I think there's some thing we can look at. 

 

1. We played a lot earlier this year with all the cups etc. This included as the season finished our players playing when a blank weekend for the fa cup final, went on a week longer because of the CL and started a week earlier because of the charity shield. 

2. It seems there was some neglect of players who had injuries at the end of international duty. We have since let the club doctor go. 

3. We have some players who just get injured. Matip, konate, Gomez, thiago, Jones, Chamberlain & keita have records of not getting on the pitch much over the last 5 years. That's just continued. 

4. Some other players are showing some weakness. Robbo - I think he's been run into the ground as his international football has been tough too. Trent - we have no real cover. Jota - one of the players mistreated in the summer. 

5. As our squad ages, putting the miles in we're expecting either strain the older players or puts more pressure on those who do have the legs. 

 

And in the main, that covers most of our issues. Darwin has missed a game. Firmino a couple i think. Fab some minor knocks, but again, he gets them, same with Henderson. 

 

If a lot of injuries hit at once, it means those playing in a season like this are under more physical pressure and you maybe don't get a chance to take them out when they're in the red zone.

 

Finally, because of our late finish to the season and early start of this, I don't think we had enough in preseason and rest between. Klopp apparently worked them harder than ever, but if you look at minutes on the pitch for players before the season started, it just wasn't enough. We have set up a squad in the main is targeted at going as far as we can in the PL and CL, but with nothing but lip service to the domestic cups. Our good fitness record last season (especially 2nd half of the season), combined with better draws than we often get meant we just about had a squad to play in the domestic cups too, but that in turn has just put more and more minutes in players legs. 

 

I'm not sure we have any issues that couldn't easily be solved with not sticking by crocks and ensuring we just have enough players in their prime to be at their physical best. It probably would have still been hard after last season, but with a squad with less flakes we'd be fine imo. 

 

 

Agreed. This is basically what I was saying on the pod. 

[El Rojo]

The subs bench was grim at the weekend. Two goalkeepers and two kids in Bajectic and Clark who were never going to feature. Curtis Jones trying to play himself into fitness and Ox featuring for the first time in ages. 

 

I'm confident that our defence and attack generally function well when we have the players available, but midfield is a problem for both. 

 

The whole Arthur thing is damning for a club that has to be smart if it wants to compete under its financial model. Panicked acknowledgement that we needed an extra senior pro in midfield, yet we go out and loan one in with even bigger fitness issues than those we already have, wasting a few million in a fee and wages that could have gone towards properly addressing the problem. 

[an tha]

Thiago not in training again today.

 

Ear infection on Saturday.....probably keep him out until new year....

[El Rojo]

26 minutes ago, an tha said:

Thiago not in training again today.

 

Ear infection on Saturday.....probably keep him out until new year....

He’s a virtual certainty to be our Player Of The Ear 2022/23. 

[HBenn]

On 24/10/2022 at 12:37, El Rojo said:

The subs bench was grim at the weekend. Two goalkeepers and two kids in Bajectic and Clark who were never going to feature. Curtis Jones trying to play himself into fitness and Ox featuring for the first time in ages. 

 

I'm confident that our defence and attack generally function well when we have the players available, but midfield is a problem for both. 

 

The whole Arthur thing is damning for a club that has to be smart if it wants to compete under its financial model. Panicked acknowledgement that we needed an extra senior pro in midfield, yet we go out and loan one in with even bigger fitness issues than those we already have, wasting a few million in a fee and wages that could have gone towards properly addressing the problem. 

It's the same as Jan 21. Then they unbelievably waited until Matip broke down before approving a purchase, by which time it was far too late.

This time they left it even later. They didn't do it when Jürgen publically stated the need for a midfielder, they didn't even do it after Naby broke down, they waited for Hendo to go as well. 

Once can be unlucky, twice is a pattern. 

If we don't go after a top top midfielder in Jan or the summer then all of this crap about waiting for a year will just be shown up for what it was: complete bull to avoid them spending a bigger net amount. 

Of course though, if we don't get CL, they will have the perfect excuse. "We were going to go huge, spend £200m net, but because of Jürgens poor performance we can only spend £20m. We are fully behind Jürgen though but expect him to deliver this summer as we are here to win".

[Freddo]

5 minutes ago, HBenn said:

It's the same as Jan 21. Then they unbelievably waited until Matip broke down before approving a purchase, by which time it was far too late.

This time they left it even later. They didn't do it when Jürgen publically stated the need for a midfielder, they didn't even do it after Naby broke down, they waited for Hendo to go as well. 

Once can be unlucky, twice is a pattern. 

If we don't go after a top top midfielder in Jan or the summer then all of this crap about waiting for a year will just be shown up for what it was: complete bull to avoid them spending a bigger net amount. 

Of course though, if we don't get CL, they will have the perfect excuse. "We were going to go huge, spend £200m net, but because of Jürgens poor performance we can only spend £20m. We are fully behind Jürgen though but expect him to deliver this summer as we are here to win".

That’s exactly what their journos will brief us and a lot will swallow that line. They take the piss out of us and will be run out of town soon if this continues.

From a position of real power we’ve allowed several teams to go past us, that is totally unacceptable. 
How anyone can defend the lack of spend is beyond me, you cant justify that when West Ham, forest and several others outspend us.

No top four, no party. Well fuck that talk as they spend fuck all anyway. No matter what competitions we are in and no matter what we win or how far we go we spend literal pennies. 

[VladimirIlyich]

1 hour ago, El Rojo said:

He’s a virtual certainty to be our Player Of The Ear 2022/23. 

Ooooh! I'll get your coat.

[HBenn]

2 minutes ago, Freddo said:

That’s exactly what their journos will brief us and a lot will swallow that line. They take the piss out of us and will be run out of town soon if this continues.

From a position of real power we’ve allowed several teams to go past us, that is totally unacceptable. 
How anyone can defend the lack of spend is beyond me, you cant justify that when West Ham, forest and several others outspend us.

No top four, no party. Well fuck that talk as they spend fuck all anyway. No matter what competitions we are in and no matter what we win or how far we go we spend literal pennies. 

I think it's going so badly wrong now they will struggle to hold that line. The worrying narrative that the journos run with of blaming on Jurgen would be disgraceful. You already see it a bit though. Fans and media downplaying the lack of investment and injuries by saying "but Jurgen should still be doing much better". Tell me any manager that changes his tactics (from tactics that have worked brilliantly), beats the PL champions and then has to make 17 changes over the next 2 games? 

Then people say "we played with no fluency Vs Forest". How can you have any fluency when you are making that many changes? Name a team that do? Especially one that doesn't have time to train. How do you lose the pace and energy of Diaz, Jota and Darwin and the class of Thiago and expect to compete. We would be screwed every game with any other manager. I include Pep in that. 

[an tha]

1 hour ago, El Rojo said:

He’s a virtual certainty to be our Player Of The Ear 2022/23. 

 

[Freddo]

So the medics tell klopp that keita and oxlade wouldn’t be ready for group stages, yet they are. There is some real tensions here with klopp and the medics. I think it’s really starting to grate on him now. 

[Babb'sBurstNad]

1 hour ago, El Rojo said:

He’s a virtual certainty to be our Player Of The Ear 2022/23. 

He may even win the Balon d'Aur-al