EU Referendum

[Section_31]

Easy question for me as who supports us leaving? Cameron and his mad little England tories and UKip that's who and anything they support i tend to think is completely wrong so that's a No for me

 

I don't think Cameron does does he? At least the rank and file Tories don't seem to think he does.

[PestiRed]

If i had to go by the working time directive im fucked.

Id loose about 50 hours a month(about £400).

It my choice if i want to work

 

How about if you earned the same or the cost of living was reduced to the point where 40 hours a week gave you the same lifestyle?

[Sugar Ape]

If i had to go by the working time directive im fucked.

Id loose about 50 hours a month(about £400).

It my choice if i want to work

 

Luckily, for you maybe, workers in the UK have the option to opt out of the 48 hours working week limit. However, I'm personally happy that breaks in my working day and holidays are guaranteed for me.

[mattyq]

He said he'd support leaving if he didn't get what he wanted in a re-negotiation and he won't get what he wants in that so he might have to support leaving.

Don't think his heart will be in it though as most of his banker/CEO mates will be going mental

[Pidge]

The withdrawal method is a dangerous game.

[RJ Fan club]

The withdrawal method is a dangerous game.

 

Getting off at Edge Hill, is a perfectly competent method, in the 'right hands'.

[VladimirIlyich]

If i had to go by the working time directive im fucked.

Id loose about 50 hours a month(about £400).

It my choice if i want to work

 

This is not the fault of the EU,this is because you and thousands more are so poorly paid and have had your employment rights stripped away to make it so.

 

Another legacy of the Thatcher era.

[Lee909]

I dont blame the EU,but im unlikely to get a wage rise to cover my loss.

Besides i choose to work over 48 hours and it should be my choice.

[RedRazor]

He said he'd support leaving if he didn't get what he wanted in a re-negotiation and he won't get what he wants in that so he might have to support leaving.

Don't think his heart will be in it though as most of his banker/CEO mates will be going mental

 

I suspect that the bankers would actually be quite chuffed. No chance of restrictive legislation from the EU and no way that the French and Germans can steal the financial services industry for themselves as was recently suggested. I know banks aren't flavour of the month but they contribute around 15% of the all income the treasury receive and employ 3.5% of the UK workforce.

[lifetime fan]

The withdrawal method is a dangerous game.

 

 

Ask Lucky Pierre and Fowlers God.

[Sugar Ape]

I dont blame the EU' date='but im unlikely to get a wage rise to cover my loss.

Besides i choose to work over 48 hours and it should be my choice.[/quote']

 

It is your choice as they can't make you do it. You choose to.

 

If the law changes and it's just a free for all you can bet everything you own a shit load of people who don't want to work more than 48 hours will be forced to.

[VladimirIlyich]

I dont blame the EU,but im unlikely to get a wage rise to cover my loss.

Besides i choose to work over 48 hours and it should be my choice.

 

I'm not saying you shouldnt be allowed to work over 48 hours but a lot of people dont have the choice to opt-in and work less hours.

[L19red]

This is an own goal by the Tories. The divisions within the Conservatives over this policy will be exposed to the harsh glare of public opinion and divided parties lose elections.

I'm struggling to see a big upside for Cameron other than maybe stopping a slide towards UKIP, but there is a big downside.

[RedRazor]

This is not the fault of the EU,this is because you and thousands more are so poorly paid and have had your employment rights stripped away to make it so.

 

Another legacy of the Thatcher era.

 

and to the eternal shame of the last government who had thirteen years to put it right and did nothing about it.

[RedRazor]

It is your choice as they can't make you do it. You choose to.

 

If the law changes and it's just a free for all you can bet everything you own a shit load of people who don't want to work more than 48 hours will be forced to.

 

I was asked to sign an opt out by an agency. So I asked what would happen if I didn't sign it - I was told that I wouldn't get any work from them.

[zigackly]

I was asked to sign an opt out by an agency. So I asked what would happen if I didn't sign it - I was told that I wouldn't get any work from them.

 

Yep. Not with my current job, I hasten to add.

[RedRazor]

I'm not saying you shouldnt be allowed to work over 48 hours but a lot of people dont have the choice to opt-in and work less hours.

 

Not sure I agree with you on this one Vlad. For every four people doing 40 extra hours per month we could have one extra person doing a full time job. If there are one million people doing those sorts of hours we are talking about the equivalent of 250,000 extra jobs. As these people come off benefits etc the tax, NI and VAT everyone is paying should come down. But most importantly it gives 250,000 people the dignity of work and the social benefits that brings are immense.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Cameron and his mates are shitting themselves that the those who want out of the EU and want to massively limit immigration from other EU countries are now heading for UKIP in their droves and he and his buddies will lose the next election because of it. Today's announcement is a sop to those people and also to the back bench Tories who made Major's government the unelectable rabble they were, and is short termism and self protectionism at its worst.

 

Tooth was spot on in this thread, the Tories who want out want to make it even easier to sack people and erode employees rights even further. There are aspects of the EU that are infuriating such as the massive farming subsidies that mainly benefit the French and some of the crazy fisheries policies, but we only ever seem to get one side in this country with majority of our press being firmly right wing and having vested interests in wanting the UK out (surely if the American based Aussie Murdoch is so determined that the UK leave, it would make anyone suspicious?). We don't hear stories like how the likes of Nissan, Toyota and Honda all opened factories here because we were in the EU and they could produce products with a market of over 400 million people. The company I work for is Spanish and operates in 6 EU countries, I'm sure it and many companies like it are alarmed at the short termism and accompanying lack of certainty that today's announcement by Cameron is set to bring for the next five years.

 

I hope if we do have the referendum and the country vote to stay in the EU that these Europhobics climb back under their rock and shut the fuck up.

 

Spot on post there. Particularly the bit in bold. I believe the Unions will make a bit of a comeback over the next year or so. And if the Tories were to get their way again you can say hello again to situations like the miners strike in the 80's.

 

This is just anther way for the Tories to divide the classes even more. When are the majority going to realise that all this attempted destruction of Communisim that has been going on since WWIIby the Capatilist dreamers is the exact same thing that they sought to destroy themsleves.

 

I think people would be surprised at how much the EU has impacted on their lives. This country would work you for 60 hours a week for less money if it could. The Europeans have a more mature attitude to virtually everything, be it family, work, the dreaded phrase 'work life' balance. The right of the Tory party cling on to some Churchillian dream that if we fuck Europe off we can somehow find solace with the English speaking world, the commonwealth and the United States, but haven't quite got with the programme yet and realised none of said countries give a fuck about us.

 

Saying that, I don't understand why the EU's goal has to be closer and closer integration. I think strength comes from diversity too and a melting pot like Europe just can't be welded together in as hap hazard a fashion as it has been without some major fallout down the line, be it cultural or economic or probably both.

 

I don't see any reason why each country can't work under a set and agreed guidelines that are fair for all, not just the more powerful ones like Britain and Germany. Everybody should be equal. Everybody should have the same access to things.

 

I have always had the impression the Tories and to a point Labour have always held on to this ideology that because we once had the Great British Empire, we should still be revered as a great nation. Nah! Get to fuck! We basically did what Hitler and all other mentalists did, bu what we have is classed as great history while Hitler is a bad, bad cunt for what he did (which he is, without question) What is the difference?

 

We seem to think we were a great nation during that time because we bullied other countries, and we lso cling on to the winning of the Wars, but my Grandfather and his before him did not go to war for some silver spoon fed kid to get my freedom (albeit restricted freedom) shat on from a great height. He fought for everyone to be equal.

 

I find it a great shame that a lot of our history and the way we acted is not condemned like Germany have condemned Hitler. Maybe the world would be a better place, same with America as well.

 

 

The withdrawal method is a dangerous game.

 

Well…

 

Ask Lucky Pierre and Fowlers God.

 

Bugger! Beat me to it.

 

Not sure I agree with you on this one Vlad. For every four people doing 40 extra hours per month we could have one extra person doing a full time job. If there are one million people doing those sorts of hours we are talking about the equivalent of 250,000 extra jobs. As these people come off benefits etc the tax, NI and VAT everyone is paying should come down. But most importantly it gives 250,000 people the dignity of work and the social benefits that brings are immense.

 

I agree with this, but you can blame the Maggie and her cronies for pushing the "Look after yourself line" no offence to anyone who opted out of the 48 hour restriction but I would rather work the hours I am meant to and have someone else have the opportunity to work the extra 15-50 hours and have a decent quality of life.

 

I drive through Kensington every night and it needs a good fucking tidy up, like a few other areas in the city. his could be done very easily if companies actually employed local people to rebuild their area it would develop social attitudes, a sense of togetherness and that a demonstration that everybody was playing their art. Also I would imagine it would it help keep the area nice as people would challenge those bringing it down by pointing out that they didn't work heir bollocks off to make the area nice for the fun of it.

 

It would create employment huge social benefits and a sense of togetherness in all cultures. Providing long term stability to the city and also the country.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

One other thing. What has made me laugh the most abou tthis is CAmeron stating, NOW is the time for the nation to answer this question.a

 

But not till 2017. So 4 years is the time Dave, not now. Bellend.

 

Also does this fucker still expect to be here in 2017? I certainly hope not.

[VladimirIlyich]

Not sure I agree with you on this one Vlad. For every four people doing 40 extra hours per month we could have one extra person doing a full time job. If there are one million people doing those sorts of hours we are talking about the equivalent of 250,000 extra jobs. As these people come off benefits etc the tax, NI and VAT everyone is paying should come down. But most importantly it gives 250,000 people the dignity of work and the social benefits that brings are immense.

 

But shouldnt people be allowed a living wage on below 48 hours a week and anything over 48 is purely voluntary and can be used to earn a few extra quid?

 

Lots of people work 48 hours plus a week and still rely on benefits as those jobs are so poorly paid.

 

There is a myth that everybody who works isn't still claiming benefit when a lot still have to claim benefits as well.

 

This has always seemed like false economy to me as the state is still paying people to work in many cases.

[Anny Road]

The problem in this country is that wages for major, hugely profitable companies are subsidised by the UK government. If someone works 40 - 50 hours a week in tescos they should not then have to rely upon the UK taxpayer to provide this person with enough money to pay the rent and feed the kids.

When one considers that firms like tescos are paying many billions in dividends to shareholders our first priority should be to make them pay a living wage.

[VladimirIlyich]

The problem in this country is that wages for major, hugely profitable companies are subsidised by the UK government. If someone works 40 - 50 hours a week in tescos they should not then have to rely upon the UK taxpayer to provide this person with enough money to pay the rent and feed the kids.

When one considers that firms like tescos are paying many billions in dividends to shareholders our first priority should be to make them pay a living wage.

 

Exactly mate. This is the crux of the problem for me too.

 

Its quite ironic that recent governments have been so keen on denationalising industry due to 'the expense' yet are basically doing the same thing with private businesses.

[Lee909]

I agree with what you are all saying about working 48hrs.

If I could cut down to that and actually have money left over for the odd holiday every other year and to enjoy myself a bit I would.My wages cover my bills(some are Luxury,Sky phone etc) and the extra hours go to buying things for me.

It's crap that you have to do this,but I do think you should have the right to do it if you want,you shouldn't need to though to pay the bills.

I'm not crying about what I earn as its not bad,and plenty earn far less.

[RedRazor]

But shouldnt people be allowed a living wage on below 48 hours a week and anything over 48 is purely voluntary and can be used to earn a few extra quid?

 

Lots of people work 48 hours plus a week and still rely on benefits as those jobs are so poorly paid.

 

There is a myth that everybody who works isn't still claiming benefit when a lot still have to claim benefits as well.

 

This has always seemed like false economy to me as the state is still paying people to work in many cases.

 

I agree with everything you have written in an economy where there is very little unemployment. The reality of where we are (and have been since the early 70s) is that there are more people looking for work than jobs available. My view will always be that the fewer people there are out of work the better for society as a whole on a range of fronts.

 

As Skids stated above we should be looking to find some money and create jobs. I thought his idea for Kensington was a really good one. I would take it a step further and create a national scheme where business ranging from the largest corporation to the one-man bands could take someone on at minimum wage for a year and claim it back as a credit against a future tax bill. I know there is a danger that the less scrupulous could use it to displace the current workforce. I reckon it would cost about £1.5bn per year (but offset by one year) for around 200,000 jobs. Seems like an absolute bargain to me. At the end of it anyone has a years wages in their pockets and a years experience at something.

[RedRazor]

The problem in this country is that wages for major, hugely profitable companies are subsidised by the UK government. If someone works 40 - 50 hours a week in tescos they should not then have to rely upon the UK taxpayer to provide this person with enough money to pay the rent and feed the kids.

When one considers that firms like tescos are paying many billions in dividends to shareholders our first priority should be to make them pay a living wage.

 

I understand the point you are making but it is really about the social circumstances of the people employed. For example, a single person, no kids, over 25 working for Tescos on minimum wage doing 40 hours per week will get about £1 per month working tax credit - far less than the amount they contribute in taxes. If they only work 30 hours per week they would get about £5 per week tax credit. A married couple both doing the same job, no kids, both over 25 will get nothing.

 

The point is if they employ single people on 30 hour contracts what you are saying is true. But if they employ married people on 40 hour contracts it isn't.