In Rafa we trust? Go fuck yourself

[Antynwa]

I don't want critical fans to shut up, I just want them to have better thought out criticisms and possibly, crazy I know, criticisms they've come to without being prompted by Paul Merson, The NOTW or some bellend on 606.

 

I make my own analysis on a game.

[Dicko]

We could afford Dani Alves but someone pulled it.

 

How do you know he didn't want to move at the time? No-one put in a serious offer until we did. And during that world Cup in 06, noises were always filtering out of the Spanish camp that Torres was telling Reina he wanted to go to Liverpool.

 

Ted this has been done to death. Del Nido was never going to sell him to us, on at least two occasions Liverpool met his valuation for the player and both times times he upped the fee. An agreement for £10m became Liverpool pulling out at £15m. What were they supposed to do, just keep going up until Del Nido said ok?

[Ted]

Well that's what Benitez was prepared to do with Gareth Barry.

[Iantn]

They both shouldn't be have bought in the first place. Fuck the fact that he sold them, I know about our problems, that doesn't right his wrongs.

 

He is making some players worse, despite the clear fact I think Babel is shit, I think Wenger would turn him into a world beater. Look at the strikers he has bought and played them on the wing? Kuyt and Cisse (I know Cisse was coming anyway, but he still played him in a fucked up position).

 

The simple argument is, would you trust Rafa with £100 Million. Because I wouldn't.

 

I'm not saying it does right his wrongs, only he can do that himself but he needs to be able to actually buy some players to either right them or make them worse.

 

He played the players to get the best outta him. I think I'm right in saying both Dirk and Djibbers have had their best seasons in front of goal playing from the right?

 

As unlikely as it is that'll get £100 let alone £100 million but to answer the question, yeah I would. His bigger money buys have so far either been quality, productive or moved on (Aquilani exempt obviously) so I can't see why that would massively change.

 

If he gets, lets say, £50 million between now and the end of the summer transfer window without having to sell and we don't progress then that's probably done it for him.

 

Yet I can't see that being the case.

[isr]

Stu, that was funny :)

 

Ahh, the power to mod. Does it feel giddy sometimes? :)

[Ted]

StuMonty: Copyright Infringer.

[goatboy59]

That's a good point

 

My spider sense is tingling.........

[Dicko]

Am I starting to get to you now, superfan?

 

Bless.

 

Obviously you're proud of yourself for that comment.

 

At least I can look down on an Evertonian or Manc. You're the only Liverpool fan I know that would have to stand on top of the Sears tower with a telescope bigger than Jodrell Bank just to make out the shit on their shoes.

[Jose M]

Im a snivelling smug manc shithouse, who hates his roots and knows fuck all about football.

 

Cushty.

[Jose M]

Obviously you're proud of yourself for that comment.

 

At least I can look down on an Evertonian or Manc. You're the only Liverpool fan I know that would have to stand on top of the Sears tower with a telescope bigger than Jodrell Bank just to make out the shit on their shoes.

 

Good one, superfan.

[hamstrung]

Momo, you've never been to a game in your life. You're always on here erupting when the match is on, you loony fuck.

[Dicko]

Well that's what Benitez was prepared to do with Gareth Barry.

I know and I didn't agree with it for Barry.

It still doesn't make it wrong for Rafa to have pulled out of the Alves deal though.

[King Emlyn]

Momo's bang on the money when he repeatedly calls Benitez a bottler; it's the single reason i have now turned against him, i've supported him consistently untill the City game but i am now totally convinced that this is a man that is completely, totally and and all consumingly AFRAID to go for a win if he thinks there is a draw to be had. You will never, ever get where you want to be with that affliction, never. For that reason alone he's not good enough for Liverpool Football Club and should, imo, be removed.

[Guest Ulysses Everett McGill]

And like that

 

He's gone

[King Emlyn]

Untill the next time folks!

[zigackly]

Adding Torres to our 05/06 team, not to mention a world class winger, would have done us.

 

Torres didn't become available until 2007, so you've got £17M to bring in your world class winger in 2006, plus I assume you let one winger go. If you look at players we actually got rid of, that's Mark Gonzalez for £3.5M, so you've £20M to spend. I'm not sure which world class wingers went for that kind of money in the summer of 2006. We were after Alves and Simao though, and reportedly wouldn't go over £12M. It's more than plausible we could have got one of them if we had been willing to, and had some change to spend on Arbeloa. You're going into 2006/2007 with Reina, Dudek, Riise, Aurelio, Hyypia, Carragher, Agger, Finnan, Arbeloa, Kewell, Garcia, Alves/Simao, Zenden, Alonso, Gerrard, Hamann, Sissoko, Crouch, Cisse, Morientes and Fowler, plus some bit part players. That's not bad business until Cisse breaks his leg.

 

You get Torres the next summer, plus £14M, so you can afford Mascherano too, if you let go of Sissoko. Morientes and Fowler are getting long in the tooth at this stage though, and you're not getting a lot of money for those two. You can sell Gonzalez and Kirkland to make the money for Skrtel. You can also trade up Garcia for Benayoun at this point. Dudek leaves at the end of his contract, and so does Zenden, and Pongolle wants to fuck off because he's blocked by Cisse, Crouch and Torres, so you've then got £7.5M to potentially bring in a backup goalie, striker and winger, because Carson wants to go on loan.

 

This is your squad for 2007/2008: Reina, Riise, Aurelio, Hyypia, Carragher, Agger, Skrtel, Finnan, Arbeloa, Kewell, Benayoun, Simao/Alves, Alonso, Gerrard, Hamann, Mascherano, Crouch, Cisse, Torres, plus some bit part players and whatever scraps you can pick up for £7.5M.

 

It's getting thinner and older, and in the next two seasons you are only going to get a total of £2.5M to spend plus whatever you make on sales.

 

Have you really done that much of a better job than Rafa? I haven't decided yet. My feeling is that we would be in worse shit now than we actually are though.

Edited November 25, 2009 by zigackly

[Paul]

Momo's bang on the money when he repeatedly calls Benitez a bottler; it's the single reason i have now turned against him, i've supported him consistently untill the City game but i am now totally convinced that this is a man that is completely, totally and and all consumingly AFRAID to go for a win if he thinks there is a draw to be had. You will never, ever get where you want to be with that affliction, never. For that reason alone he's not good enough for Liverpool Football Club and should, imo, be removed.

 

If it weren't for the run in last season, I'd agree with you. I think he realised then what is required. The problem is that he fucked up by alienating Xabi and Keane (Catch, I know what your view is, but I can't be swayed mate), thereby weakening a team that was already riding its luck in terms of quality and fitness beyond the point of repair.

[King Emlyn]

If it weren't for the run in last season, I'd agree with you. I think he realised then what is required. The problem is that he fucked up by alienating Xabi and Keane (Catch, I know what your view is, but I can't be swayed mate), thereby weakening a team that was already riding its luck in terms of quality and fitness beyond the point of repair.

But always when we were chasing it Paul. You just know that if we were ahead the shutters would come down; it's his nature.

[Catch22]

But always when we were chasing it Paul. You just know that if we were ahead the shutters would come down; it's his nature.

 

I think that is a media misreprensation of his character.

 

He is a classic gambler.

 

He always gambles if he thinks he has the slightest edge.

 

That gives him his stunning wins, his man-management "issues" (fuck people, i'll play the odds), his indifference to criticism & his lows.

 

Maybe we don't want a gambler in charge (i think we have to, given our constraints, but that is a different story), but he is a gambler thru & thru.

[Antynwa]

I think that is a media misreprensation of his character.

 

He is a classic gambler.

 

He always gambles if he thinks he has the slightest edge.

 

That gives him his stunning wins, his man-management "issues" (fuck people, i'll play the odds), his indifference to criticism & his lows.

 

Maybe we don't want a gambler in charge (i think we have to, given our constraints, but that is a different story), but he is a gambler thru & thru.

 

I can only think of one occasion where he took a gamble, a ridiculous one at that and it paid off, that was taking Gerrard off v Everton the other year.

 

It isn't a media misrepresentation of his character at all, he's a cautious manager, when games are in the balance or need an extra bit of attacking impetus, especially in the league.

[King Emlyn]

I think that is a media misreprensation of his character.

 

He is a classic gambler.

 

He always gambles if he thinks he has the slightest edge.

 

That gives him his stunning wins, his man-management "issues" (fuck people, i'll play the odds), his indifference to criticism & his lows.

 

Maybe we don't want a gambler in charge (i think we have to, given our constraints, but that is a different story), but he is a gambler thru & thru.

he gambles on not losing

[Paul]

But always when we were chasing it Paul. You just know that if we were ahead the shutters would come down; it's his nature.

 

Do you mean the title as opposed to individual matches? In that case, I've got no evidence for the defence. However, I would say that if he can see the results of that policy and then ignore them he must be stupid. It's just so blindingly obvious that that approach (aggressive, high tempo, compact, attacking football played high up the pitch) is the key to winning the league, in my view.

[Catch22]

I can only think of one occasion where he took a gamble, a ridiculous one at that and it paid off, that was taking Gerrard off v Everton the other year.

 

It isn't a media misrepresentation of his character at all, he's a cautious manager, when games are in the balance or need an extra bit of attacking impetus, especially in the league.

 

 

His character is that of a gambler.

 

Dostoevsky and all that.

 

It may not be right (indeed some of the most valid criticisms of him are that he sees everything in terms of blind odds not people) but that is what it is.

 

He always looks for value & he always acts on it & fuck any notion of opinion.

 

If your character is essentially that of a gambler you will take the "safe" option if you percieve it as having "value" when contemporary wisdom suggests "go for it"

 

His underlying character is that of a compulsive gambler.

[Unrighteous]

Do you mean the title as opposed to individual matches? In that case, I've got no evidence for the defence. However, I would say that if he can see the results of that policy and then ignore them he must be stupid. It's just so blindingly obvious that that approach (aggressive, high tempo, compact, attacking football played high up the pitch) is the key to winning the league, in my view.

 

United prove this year after year...

[Iantn]

He is cautious although what he ain't is a bottler.