Chris Bascombe

[ratcatcher]

I say we sack rafa and give the job to carra and gerrard

 

Better still, why not Benitez ask the players (if he hasn't already) and have clear the air talks? It was good enough for Paisley once or twice.

 

Benitez needs to change some things and who better than a couple of senior players? We're not talking player power but a frank exchange of opinions.

 

Make no mistake, Benitez is heading out the door at Anfield if he isnt able to make big changes to our current performances.

[WaltonRed]

What is it with this job that takes a normal man in and by the time they leave they are a shadow of there former selves?

[kop]

This is just a forum Knut. What else could I be using my energy for?

 

My view of the owners is clear and I don't see what else I could personally do about the whole situation. I think what Kaizer and some others are doing is admirable but logistically there's nothing I can do to help with anything else.

 

IMO, the on-the-field situation is as much an issue as the off-the-field one. Seeing as this is just a football forum, then I don't see the problem in discussing it.

 

I think we have a notion of self-importance on the forum(s). We are just a small piece of the fan-base and don't necessarily represent the voice of the majority of fans.

 

G+H aren't gaining anything on me discussing football issues.

 

It's hard not to use energy on this, and I agree with you that it starts to sound like "Rafa FC" or whatever you called it. I was kind of giving you right on that comment, but had my own spin on it of what that mean to us.

 

I'm using my energy on it aswell so it wasn't a dig on you if that's how you took it. When I read the Bascombe match report yesterday, and later on his weekly article, I felt as low as I've ever done over the last months, and that says a lot on a day we won 3-0.

 

People off the forums though, are even more focused on the Rafa situation that we are on the forums (that's my experience at least). If there's one thing forums and internett in general are good for, then it is access to information. So when we, with our info-access and general up to date discussions, still focus on Rafa, then I think G&H are more than pleased. Remember that they actually pays attention to what's going on amongst us, something the report Hicks recieved about the protests were quieting down is a prove of (if true).

[Moschops II]

What is it with this job that takes a normal man in and by the time they leave they are a shadow of there former selves?

 

We're a big part of it.

[Brownie]

It's hard not to use energy on this, and I agree with you that it starts to sound like "Rafa FC" or whatever you called it. I was kind of giving you right on that comment, but had my own spin on it of what that mean to us.

 

I'm using my energy on it aswell so it wasn't a dig on you if that's how you took it. When I read the Bascombe match report yesterday, and later on his weekly article, I felt as low as I've ever done over the last months, and that says a lot on a day we won 3-0.

 

People off the forums though, are even more focused on the Rafa situation that we are on the forums (that's my experience at least). If there's one thing forums and internett in general are good for, then it is access to information. So when we, with our info-access and general up to date discussions, still focus on Rafa, then I think G&H are more than pleased. Remember that they actually pays attention to what's going on amongst us, something the report Hicks recieved about the protests were quieting down is a prove of (if true).

 

The only way that the masses of Liverpool fans will be made aware of what we perceive as the 'correct' information, is through the likes of the Echo. That's why I was pleased with Barrett the other week when he was so open about his opinions. We need more of that for people to realise what the yanks are like.

 

I don't believe that the situation on the pitch should be ignored either though, as it was an issue before the ownership concerns even arose.

 

I think I understand what you mean mate, and I did misinterpret your original post so apologies.

[WaltonRed]

We're a big part of it.

 

How come?

[redrosetints]

Chris Bascombe has made like 3 posts in 4 years on this forum. Why would he suddenly want to start conversing with the likes of you and me? Besides the fact that if he answered one question he'd instantly be hit with a hundred more, I mean.

 

Like Paul said: why would he come out and say he was just stating the obvious; when he gains nothing from doing so and potentially loses credibility in that hapless readers actually wake up and see that the majority of the things we read in the newspapers are padded out crap which usually have a 10% truth to 40% lies ratio. The other 50% being based on pure guesswork.

 

Hi Skeet, yeah ok, he'd not converse away, especially as you rightly point out, it'd only lead to more questions. With regard to Carra, maybe he has lost faith in Rafa, maybe he is right to have lost faith in Rafa, who knows what goes on behind the scenes. I just think Bascombe with his fan hat on, needs to understand the weight and authority he has on all things LFC and he must have been aware of the implications of his words and tone. Given that this whole debacle is aout more than Rafa, G&H or Gerrard or Carra, its about the soul of LFC and maybe, just maybe, at times like that it's better to keep mum.

[WaltonRed]

nonsense... we're having a bad time.

 

You really think a new manager is going to come in and we're suddeny going to jump 5 steps forward?

 

fickle fans, i swear.

 

Did i say that?

 

And you could'nt be more wrong about being fickle. I love the man but the buck stops with him and I love my club more.

[spider-neil]

How come?

 

unrealistic expectations.

 

we are on the verge of booting out a manager who has dragged liverpool to two european finals in three years and after one poor season we are going to get rid. we're going to become the new newcastle.

[Moschops II]

How come?

 

Levels of expectation. The fact we all want the title and that nothing can make up for it if it's not forthcoming. The way so many of us were brought up on decade after decade of uninterrupted success, and so anything less now seems like total failure.

 

If I was a manager, I'd be terrified of taking the club on with us as fans. At Newcastle, all you'd have to do is win the Carling Cup and they'd have a statue of you outside the ground before the cup had even been lifted. Here? We're never going to be happy with the manager (any manager) until it's 1977 all over again, forever.

[cochcaer]

I think Rafa has become more defensive season on season, maybe because the likes of Cisse disregarded his drop deep orders and the likes of Dirk are happy to sit in midfield and never trouble the goalie. You only have to look at the numbers other teams get into the box (especially midfielders) to see why we struggle to break teams down.

 

During Rafa's tenure how many of his attack-minded buys have been an unqualified success? I'd hand Rafa the money for a striker or winger more in hope than expectation.

 

I thought at he start of the season Rafa had changed his philosphy and decided to attack teams more and in all fairness it looked to be paying off.

 

If you look at the players available to us we shouldnt be struggling where we are we should be challenging at the top of the league.

[Brownie]

Levels of expectation. The fact we all want the title and that nothing can make up for it if it's not forthcoming. The way so many of us were brought up on decade after decade of uninterrupted success, and so anything less now seems like total failure.

 

If I was a manager, I'd be terrified of taking the club on with us as fans. At Newcastle, all you'd have to do is win the Carling Cup and they'd have a statue of you outside the ground before the cup had even been lifted. Here? We're never going to be happy with the manager (any manager) until it's 1977 all over again, forever.

 

If we were five points behind at this point, nobody would even be talking about Rafa.

 

IMO, just challenging for the league is enough to stay in a job. I would never demand us to win the league, but we should be closer than we are.

 

I think you're being a bit OTT there Danny, although I can understand why.

[spider-neil]

'oh, we're not passing and moving, get rid'

 

'we're not challeging for the league, get rid'

 

'carra and gerrard aren't happy, get rid (of the manager)'

 

am I happy with the style of play currently, no. am I happy with our league position, no but I am sick to fucking death of us lauding managers one year and seeking to fucking get rid the next, can we for once have some consistacy and seek to drag ourselves out of this slump because I'm telling you right now a revolving door of managers is just round the corner you mark my words and when that happens we'll be no better the villas, evertons and spurs of this world.

[WaltonRed]

Brownie is spot on, challenging would be enough. Progression is something every one said they'd be happy with.

 

This squad may not be good enough to win the league but its good enough to get 4th with ease and we are'nt.

 

We are going backwards end of story.

 

And two CL finals we lost one remember. I dont mean that in a funny way but its true, losing a final is something you should be dragging up to try and save somone.

 

Lastly, we will never be like Newcastle, ever.

[Original202]

I think Rafa has become more defensive season on season, maybe because the likes of Cisse disregarded his drop deep orders and the likes of Dirk are happy to sit in midfield and never trouble the goalie. You only have to look at the numbers other teams get into the box (especially midfielders) to see why we struggle to break teams down.

 

During Rafa's tenure how many of his attack-minded buys have been an unqualified success? I'd hand Rafa the money for a striker or winger more in hope than expectation.

 

And there'll always be this problem as long as forwards are signed based on their workrate, their willingness to track back and their ability to hold up the ball.

[spider-neil]

Brownie is spot on, challenging would be enough. Progression is something every one said they'd be happy with.

 

This squad may not be good enough to win the league but its good enough to get 4th with ease and we are'nt.

 

We are going backwards end of story.

 

And two CL finals we lost one remember. I dont mean that in a funny way but its true, losing a final is something you should be dragging up to try and save somone.

 

Lastly, we will never be like Newcastle, ever.

 

european finals are pretty hard to reach ask manu (twice in their history) or arsenal (once in their history) or chelsea (never)

I talk to many liverpool fans and they are so blazé about it it makes me sick to my stomach. its the league for them and nothing else matters I bet the reason they are desparate for it is not liverpool's glory but because the mancs are so close to 19

[kop]

The only way that the masses of Liverpool fans will be made aware of what we perceive as the 'correct' information, is through the likes of the Echo. That's why I was pleased with Barrett the other week when he was so open about his opinions. We need more of that for people to realise what the yanks are like.

 

I don't believe that the situation on the pitch should be ignored either though, as it was an issue before the ownership concerns even arose.

 

I think I understand what you mean mate, and I did misinterpret your original post so apologies.

 

In the shower of information, Bascombe has a very important roles aswell, as has obviously the Echo. So when Bascombe writes what he does, then that fast becomes the 'correct' information. So, when he prints what he does when he's guessing what Carra's body language means, then that becomes todays 'correct information' very fast. Even his editor's lie about how the fans demonstrated against Rafa after the match will do the rounds as a fact before Bascombe (fair play to him) went out and put the record straight. The only problem though is that 90% (my guess) of those who read it in the first place will treat the fans demonstration against Rafa as a fact for a long time, because they never got the retraction of the story. We on forums like this will get that info though because it works like a monster-canalizer of LFC related info.

 

I agree with you though, that the situation on the pitch was on the agenda even before G&H came in, and most definately before they started fucking us over. So why has the Rafa discussion been this loud and on the agenda more than ever after we are winning 3-0 against Sunderland? I'm not going to answer that myself, I'm just going to state once more that the timing couldnt've been better for G&H.

[Brownie]

'oh, we're not passing and moving, get rid'

 

'we're not challeging for the league, get rid'

 

'carra and gerrard aren't happy, get rid (of the manager)'

 

am I happy with the style of play currently, no. am I happy with our league position, no but I am sick to fucking death of us lauding managers one year and seeking to fucking get rid the next, can we for once have some consistacy and seek to drag ourselves out of this slump because I'm telling you right now a revolving door of managers is just round the corner you mark my words and when that happens we'll be no better the villas, evertons and spurs of this world.

 

I'm sorry Neil but that is absolute tosh, mate. I hate to say so but it really is.

 

There seems to be this myth amongst some of our fans, and i've seen it a few times on here, that we are 'becoming Newcastle' or becoming impatient. GH had five years and by the end of the season Rafa will have had four years.

 

How the fuck is that comparable to Newcastle, Villa or Spurs?

 

Rafa came here because he said that he knew he'd get time to build his own side. As I said before, by the end of the season he'll have had four years to build a team capable of progress in the league, but we're competing with Everton, Villa and Man City.

 

I hate this notion that we're impatient cunts - we're not and we never will be. Whoever our next manager is, and whenever that is, he will get time.

[rebel23]

we signed Torres which is was a massive signing and one that several managers have failed to make. he gets it right when he is backed and can get his 1st choice

 

folks need to be more patient, i would be delighted if we got one torres a year because it would mean we get stronger every year rather than hoping for instant success with a clutch of mediocre buys, you build slowly.

 

I am so happy that Rafa decided not to distract himself by getting rid of more players in the summer (which I was calling for) and decided to concerntrate on landing Torres

 

focus and long term building is NOT going backwards, getting rid of managers and all the related disruption is sure to take us further backwards. mark my words, any new manager is likely to say "oh i'll give these cunts a chance" and we'll have players who should be shipped out having another poor season next year. players have massive self-interests especially if they sense a manager might give them or their mates the boot

[hamstrung]

I'm sorry Neil but that is absolute tosh, mate. I hate to say so but it really is.

 

There seems to be this myth amongst some of our fans, and i've seen it a few times on here, that we are 'becoming Newcastle' or becoming impatient. GH had five years and by the end of the season Rafa will have had four years.

 

How the fuck is that comparable to Newcastle, Villa or Spurs?

 

Rafa came here because he said that he knew he'd get time to build his own side. As I said before, by the end of the season he'll have had four years to build a team capable of progress in the league, but we're competing with Everton, Villa and Man City.

 

I hate this notion that we're impatient cunts - we're not and we never will be. Whoever our next manager is, and whenever that is, he will get time.

 

The 4 years has to be put in the context of reaching 2 European cup finals and 2 domestic finals.

 

In those terms, it does seem spoilt and impatient.

 

But of course, we have the albatross of the league around our collective neck, so we push all the other (successful and inspiring) stuff to the back of our minds.

[Rashid]

The 4 years has to be put in the context of reaching 2 European cup finals and 2 domestic finals.

 

In those terms, it does seem spoilt and impatient.

 

But of course, we have the albatross of the league around our collective neck, so we push all the other (successful and inspiring) stuff to the back of our minds.

 

That isn't sustainable without a good base, a good "product" out on the pitch and a general stability at the club. The best marker for those is the league... the table never lies I'm afraid. United have won only 1 European Cup under Fergie but they have become huge on the back of the league titles.

 

As for the "albatross", noone is expecting us to win, but to be in contention...

[Brownie]

european finals are pretty hard to reach ask manu (twice in their history) or arsenal (once in their history) or chelsea (never)

I talk to many liverpool fans and they are so blazé about it it makes me sick to my stomach. its the league for them and nothing else matters I bet the reason they are desparate for it is not liverpool's glory but because the mancs are so close to 19

 

The league is the priority, ask Rafa yourself if you ever get the chance.

 

This club's reputation was built on league dominance. The European journeys only came because of success in the league back then - things are different now when it comes to qualification but the premise still stands.

 

Great teams are the ones that have success in the league.

 

We could win 2 CL final's in a decade, but if we don't win the league then we won't be seen as a dominant force during that period.

 

Anyway, it's not even about winning the league necessarily, it's about having a chance to. I reckon if you're good enough to win the league then you'll get your fair share of cups anyway.

[hamstrung]

That isn't sustainable without a good base, a good "product" out on the pitch and a general stability at the club. The best marker for those is the league... the table never lies I'm afraid. United have won only 1 European Cup under Fergie but they have become huge on the back of the league titles.

 

As for the "albatross", noone is expecting us to win, but to be in contention...

 

completely irrelevant and missing the point, as usual then...

[RedPower]

You been waiting quite a few years to get that bile up havn't you.You're a fucking disgrace to Liverpool fans everywhere

 

Awww, has Carragher come out and suppported your 'Rafa has lost the players' bollocks theory, and I have gone and insulted him? You poor little lamb.

 

Why don't you run the logic of your theory by us again, especially the bit where you say players are only interested in getting big money and playing in the big competitions - which is something our players are doing, yet they are unhappy and want the Manager changed - you never did square that circle, did you?

[Brownie]

The 4 years has to be put in the context of reaching 2 European cup finals and 2 domestic finals.

 

In those terms, it does seem spoilt and impatient.

 

But of course, we have the albatross of the league around our collective neck, so we push all the other (successful and inspiring) stuff to the back of our minds.

 

We should have stuck with GH then? I mean his record in the cups was pretty awesome.

 

Why did we hire Rafa?

 

He had shown that he could win the title in a massive league, with inferior resources.