Owen Jones.

[VladimirIlyich]

6 hours ago, Section_31 said:

I never said people joining labour gave corbyn the leadership, but that people from outside labour (who probably didn't like labour) joined purely to vote for him, the most rebellious labour mp in the commons. And yet it's starmer who's depicted as having taken over the party.

 

A lot of the anti starmer stuff is spot on, but it's watered down by the fact it's been going on since day one, let's not pretend it's about palestine or u turns. It's because he's not rebecca long Bailey.

 

And what's wrong with having no other reason to vote for labour other than the fact they're not the tories? 

 

"Winning the argument" is great, but I'd rather not be run by gangsters.

The fact that the Labour Party is not the Tory Party is convincing enough for me to begin with. Remember that you can actually force change in Labour policy without having to be a multi millionaire and promise cash or Directorships in return for their support. That will always sway me for a start.

[Gnasher]

41 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Blunter side of a cunt sword I guess 

 

He's right, and so is Jones. Reeves speech the other night almost certainly guarantees more austerity for the next five years. It really doesn't have to be this way.

 

 

[Section_31]

3 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

The fact that the Labour Party is not the Tory Party is convincing enough for me to begin with. Remember that you can actually force change in Labour policy without having to be a multi millionaire and promise cash or Directorships in return for their support. That will always sway me for a start.

 

That's what I keep saying. The Labour Party is NOT Kier Starmer and Rachel Reeves. It's members, councilors, supporters. If Starmer doesn't perform if and when he's in, he'll be booted. 

[Gnasher]

20 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

The fact that the Labour Party is not the Tory Party is convincing enough for me to begin with. Remember that you can actually force change in Labour policy without having to be a multi millionaire and promise cash or Directorships in return for their support. That will always sway me for a start.

 

You don't have to be a millionaire but it helps if you are. 

 

https://www.tatler.com/article/who-are-the-super-rich-labour-donors-bankrolling-sir-keir-starmer

 

 

 

[Creator Supreme]

I'm still hoping it's a rope a dope, and they start reversing austerity once they get power, but I just don't think it is.

[Gnasher]

11 minutes ago, Creator Supreme said:

I'm still hoping it's a rope a dope, and they start reversing austerity once they get power, but I just don't think it is.

 

As Jones says in that article, the Reeves speech the other night where she promised to stick to tory fiscal rules makes that all but impossible. Unless she's totally telling lies, which I doubt. 

[Kevin D]

1 hour ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

Agree with a lot of that, but I'm not sure it is a right wing country, at least not in as entrenched a manner as it seems now. Maybe centre right.

 

Corbyn's policies were popular in blind polls. The problem is a toxic press disingenuously framing things to avoid a reader/viewership voting for their own interests.

I'd say the country is left wing economically(NHS, teachers, public utilities), centre on social issues(basically not arsed) and right wing on crime and justice(hang ‘em high).

 

[TheSire]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

 

As Jones says in that article, the Reeves speech the other night where she promised to stick to tory fiscal rules makes that all but impossible. Unless she's totally telling lies, which I doubt. 

Why do you think she's not telling lies? Is she honest?

[Gnasher]

7 minutes ago, TheSire said:

Why do you think she's not telling lies? Is she honest?

 

I think it's what she really believes in. She's says something along those lines in almost every interview. 

[Arniepie]

3 hours ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

Agree with a lot of that, but I'm not sure it is a right wing country, at least not in as entrenched a manner as it seems now. Maybe centre right.

 

Corbyn's policies were popular in blind polls. The problem is a toxic press disingenuously framing things to avoid a reader/viewership voting for their own interests.

We have had probably 1 centre left government in 60 odd years.

Its a country full of fucking peasants who thinks someone who doesn't know the names of his own children, but has a posh accent,would make a good leader.

[Gnasher]

He's involved in some altercation with Emily Thornberry.. I heard her mention it the other day on a morning breakfast show and as I don't follow Jones wasn't sure what she meant or what it was about. Went on the News Agent pod Barrington on the Thatcher thread pointed me to it regarding the Reeves speech and there he was. Turns out he lives in Thornberry's constituency and they were mates. 

 

The fallout is/was her stance on Gaza.  In his own words. 

 

 

 

I again see little wrong with that. Listening to him talking there he's probably one of the most lucid and coherent political commentators about at this time. 

 

[Bjornebye]

This is the point. Legitimising genocide is fucking woeful. But then what if Labour went against Israel. No chance they win the election and it’s not as if their words carry any weight right now anyway. But then you see Streeting sniffing the cash and the speaker of the house who is supposedly Labour leaning having a jolly in Israel crying about an IDF lead massacre bemoaning Hamas. It’s fucked. The world’s fucked. It’s like watching Lord of the Rings and the Hobbits having a peaceful life but a volcano miles away is determined to turn it all dark and cunts run to the power. 

[Section_31]

10 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

This is the point. Legitimising genocide is fucking woeful. But then what if Labour went against Israel. No chance they win the election and it’s not as if their words carry any weight right now anyway. But then you see Streeting sniffing the cash and the speaker of the house who is supposedly Labour leaning having a jolly in Israel crying about an IDF lead massacre bemoaning Hamas. It’s fucked. The world’s fucked. It’s like watching Lord of the Rings and the Hobbits having a peaceful life but a volcano miles away is determined to turn it all dark and cunts run to the power. 

 

I don't think it's an Israel/Gaza thing. I think the Tories are foaming at the mouth to turn it into a 'muslamics have control of Labour' type argument. It'll be Tories and Tommy Robinson, Spitfires, jumpers for goalposts, vs Starmer and those big Elepehants from Lord of the Rings with the bald dudes on blowing horns. 

[Skidfingers McGonical]

20 hours ago, Section_31 said:

 

Because it's the only way to win. This is a proven fact. Blair is the only Labour leader in my lifetime.

 

It's a right wing country, with a right wing press, with a working class that elected 30p Lee and put Dennis Skinner on the dole.

 

People voted in huge numbers for Boris Johnson over Corbyn, Boris Johnson! 

 

People need to see this country for what it is, not what they wish it was. 

 

Starmer has left the Tories with so little room to maneuver they're talking about meat taxes and six bins which don't exist, his history as a prosecutor and, erm, Jeremy Corbyn.

I think you are giving him far too much credit here. They have fucked themselves over and over by their own inadequacies, not down to anything Starmer has done. 
 

I voted for Starmer, because he came out with pledges to policies that were aligned with my own socialist beliefs. Since then he’s basically called me and everyone who voted for him “a fucking mug” for believing what he “promised” by going against those very policies. 

 

I tried to get on board for two years, but fuck him and his shadow cabinet. He’s a duplicitous cunt that I no longer have any time for. If people are happy with that then sound, I don’t have to be.
 

And not all of his detractors should be lumped in the same bracket and be accused of hating him for the pathetic (you are better than that) reasons of “He’s not RBL” (it’s been 4 years and nobody has method her since) or his shithouse stance on Gaza.

 

I’d point to the whole flag debacle as another weekly example of him pandering to worse element of society (again), but all the main parties are making themselves look like morons, so he’s not alone.

 

He’s not the man of integrity that he so boldly claims or most of his supporters have you believe. He and the Labour Party (like the Tories) need to stop pissing on my leg and tell me it’s raining. 
 

 

 

 

 

[Jack the Sipper]

1 hour ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

I think you are giving him far too much credit here. They have fucked themselves over and over by their own inadequacies, not down to anything Starmer has done. 
 

I voted for Starmer, because he came out with pledges to policies that were aligned with my own socialist beliefs. Since then he’s basically called me and everyone who voted for him “a fucking mug” for believing what he “promised” by going against those very policies. 

 

I tried to get on board for two years, but fuck him and his shadow cabinet. He’s a duplicitous cunt that I no longer have any time for. If people are happy with that then sound, I don’t have to be.
 

And not all of his detractors should be lumped in the same bracket and be accused of hating him for the pathetic (you are better than that) reasons of “He’s not RBL” (it’s been 4 years and nobody has method her since) or his shithouse stance on Gaza.

 

I’d point to the whole flag debacle as another weekly example of him pandering to worse element of society (again), but all the main parties are making themselves look like morons, so he’s not alone.

 

He’s not the man of integrity that he so boldly claims or most of his supporters have you believe. He and the Labour Party (like the Tories) need to stop pissing on my leg and tell me it’s raining. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you're doing Starmer a disservice by laying Labour's lead solely at the Tories failings. Sure, they've fucked up big, but, whether it's covid, 'magic money trees' or Israel/Gaza, Starmer has avoided pretty much every elephant trap laid for him, either by the Tories or their friends in the media. At every turn he's got them on the back foot, taking the centre ground when they hoped he would be another leftie they could paint as the enemy of the country.

 

He's occupied the centre so successfully that the Tories have gone further to the right for votes, but even the right aren't interested anymore, not when they've flopped on things like immigration and law and order. His whole strategy is about winning the election, not appeasing the likes of Owen Jones. From a proposals and policies POV I can't argue with anyone who doesn't agree with him, but he's been a pretty good strategist  to my mind.

 

Ever noticed how the Tories biggest attack lines towards Starmer are his previous record as a 'leftie human rights lawyer' and the fact he served under Corbyn? They've got fuck all on him, because he's given them fuck all. 

 

 

[Bjornebye]

14 minutes ago, Jack the Sipper said:

 

I think you're doing Starmer a disservice by laying Labour's lead solely at the Tories failings. Sure, they've fucked up big, but, whether it's covid, 'magic money trees' or Israel/Gaza, Starmer has avoided pretty much every elephant trap laid for him, either by the Tories or their friends in the media. At every turn he's got them on the back foot, taking the centre ground when they hoped he would be another leftie they could paint as the enemy of the country.

 

He's occupied the centre so successfully that the Tories have gone further to the right for votes, but even the right aren't interested anymore, not when they've flopped on things like immigration and law and order. His whole strategy is about winning the election, not appeasing the likes of Owen Jones. From a proposals and policies POV I can't argue with anyone who doesn't agree with him, but he's been a pretty good strategist  to my mind.

 

Ever noticed how the Tories biggest attack lines towards Starmer are his previous record as a 'leftie human rights lawyer' and the fact he served under Corbyn? They've got fuck all on him, because he's given them fuck all. 

 

 

Or maybe he’s just got fuck all. Who knows. Way back on the Starmer thread I kept saying I hope he keeps his cards close to his chest and then hits them like a fucking rocket but since then he’s managed to piss me right off and he’s allowed a few of his MP’s act the cunt. It’s worrying but a significantly better proposition than a Tory victory. I think we’d see serious civil unrest if they got another 4 years and I’ll be burning my wheelie bin in the street chanting fuck the tories as loud as anyone. Might even kick it over. 

[VladimirIlyich]

20 hours ago, Kevin D said:

I'd say the country is left wing economically(NHS, teachers, public utilities), centre on social issues(basically not arsed) and right wing on crime and justice(hang ‘em high).

 

I don't think that's feasible myself. If you are a 'hang em' devotee' that makes you blind to the causes of crime and reasons for it,ergo poverty,desparation and a daily struggle to make ends meet. Saying you 'support' the NHS also involves and understanding,or sympathy towards things like addiction,mental illness,immigration issues and this is a complicated line of thought. A fair few of the 'hang em high' brigade don't give a fuck about these things and lack the idea that crime and poverty are absolutely joined at the hip.

[TheSire]

1 hour ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

I think you are giving him far too much credit here. They have fucked themselves over and over by their own inadequacies, not down to anything Starmer has done. 
 

I voted for Starmer, because he came out with pledges to policies that were aligned with my own socialist beliefs. Since then he’s basically called me and everyone who voted for him “a fucking mug” for believing what he “promised” by going against those very policies. 

 

I tried to get on board for two years, but fuck him and his shadow cabinet. He’s a duplicitous cunt that I no longer have any time for. If people are happy with that then sound, I don’t have to be.
 

And not all of his detractors should be lumped in the same bracket and be accused of hating him for the pathetic (you are better than that) reasons of “He’s not RBL” (it’s been 4 years and nobody has method her since) or his shithouse stance on Gaza.

 

I’d point to the whole flag debacle as another weekly example of him pandering to worse element of society (again), but all the main parties are making themselves look like morons, so he’s not alone.

 

He’s not the man of integrity that he so boldly claims or most of his supporters have you believe. He and the Labour Party (like the Tories) need to stop pissing on my leg and tell me it’s raining. 
 

 

 

 

 

The idiots vote counts just as much as mine and yours. Unfortunately. 

[Jack the Sipper]

29 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Or maybe he’s just got fuck all. Who knows. Way back on the Starmer thread I kept saying I hope he keeps his cards close to his chest and then hits them like a fucking rocket but since then he’s managed to piss me right off and he’s allowed a few of his MP’s act the cunt. It’s worrying but a significantly better proposition than a Tory victory. I think we’d see serious civil unrest if they got another 4 years and I’ll be burning my wheelie bin in the street chanting fuck the tories as loud as anyone. Might even kick it over. 

 

He trained and worked as a human rights lawyer, often taking pro-bono cases, like the McLibel one, when the little people couldn't pay for their defence, so I think he's got something about him. This portrayal of him as some right-wing, kid-starving, baby-slaughtering ogre is not something that comes from serious people. But, if Labour win the election, he's not going to throw off his suit, don some workers overalls and start calling every cunt 'comrade' either. He'll rule as a moderate centre-left leader, in much the same way Blair did. 

 

I for one, would have no problem with that.

[Bjornebye]

11 minutes ago, Jack the Sipper said:

 

He trained and worked as a human rights lawyer, often taking pro-bono cases, like the McLibel one, when the little people couldn't pay for their defence, so I think he's got something about him. This portrayal of him as some right-wing, kid-starving, baby-slaughtering ogre is not something that comes from serious people. But, if Labour win the election, he's not going to throw off his suit, don some workers overalls and start calling every cunt 'comrade' either. He'll rule as a moderate centre-left leader, in much the same way Blair did. 

 

I for one, would have no problem with that.

Of course he isn’t but don’t come at me like some fucking crème brûlée as if I don’t get it. I’m Labour through and through but I’m struggling to identify with some of the heavy hitters within it. That’s a lot of people’s stance. We will all still go out and tick the box but this ultra centrist stance in my opinion is just choosing the easy option. 

[Jairzinho]

Would snap your hand off for centrist economics. Hopefully Labour moves a bit to the left post being voted in to enact centrist economics. 

[Arniepie]

5 hours ago, Jack the Sipper said:

 

I think you're doing Starmer a disservice by laying Labour's lead solely at the Tories failings. Sure, they've fucked up big, but, whether it's covid, 'magic money trees' or Israel/Gaza, Starmer has avoided pretty much every elephant trap laid for him, either by the Tories or their friends in the media. At every turn he's got them on the back foot, taking the centre ground when they hoped he would be another leftie they could paint as the enemy of the country.

 

He's occupied the centre so successfully that the Tories have gone further to the right for votes, but even the right aren't interested anymore, not when they've flopped on things like immigration and law and order. His whole strategy is about winning the election, not appeasing the likes of Owen Jones. From a proposals and policies POV I can't argue with anyone who doesn't agree with him, but he's been a pretty good strategist  to my mind.

 

Ever noticed how the Tories biggest attack lines towards Starmer are his previous record as a 'leftie human rights lawyer' and the fact he served under Corbyn? They've got fuck all on him, because he's given them fuck all. 

 

 

That monumental cunt Aaron Banks tried to have a pop at him yesterday and got utterly humiliated

[Arniepie]

6 hours ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

I think you are giving him far too much credit here. They have fucked themselves over and over by their own inadequacies, not down to anything Starmer has done. 
 

I voted for Starmer, because he came out with pledges to policies that were aligned with my own socialist beliefs. Since then he’s basically called me and everyone who voted for him “a fucking mug” for believing what he “promised” by going against those very policies. 

 

I tried to get on board for two years, but fuck him and his shadow cabinet. He’s a duplicitous cunt that I no longer have any time for. If people are happy with that then sound, I don’t have to be.
 

And not all of his detractors should be lumped in the same bracket and be accused of hating him for the pathetic (you are better than that) reasons of “He’s not RBL” (it’s been 4 years and nobody has method her since) or his shithouse stance on Gaza.

 

I’d point to the whole flag debacle as another weekly example of him pandering to worse element of society (again), but all the main parties are making themselves look like morons, so he’s not alone.

 

He’s not the man of integrity that he so boldly claims or most of his supporters have you believe. He and the Labour Party (like the Tories) need to stop pissing on my leg and tell me it’s raining. 
 

 

 

 

 

I think he has to do things like that stupid fucking flag thing,to keep those red wall simpletons on side 

[Gnasher]

5 hours ago, Jack the Sipper said:

 

I think you're doing Starmer a disservice by laying Labour's lead solely at the Tories failings. Sure, they've fucked up big, but, whether it's covid, 'magic money trees' or Israel/Gaza, Starmer has avoided pretty much every elephant trap laid for him, either by the Tories or their friends in the media. At every turn he's got them on the back foot, taking the centre ground when they hoped he would be another leftie they could paint as the enemy of the country.

 

He's occupied the centre so successfully that the Tories have gone further to the right for votes, but even the right aren't interested anymore, not when they've flopped on things like immigration and law and order. His whole strategy is about winning the election, not appeasing the likes of Owen Jones. From a proposals and policies POV I can't argue with anyone who doesn't agree with him, but he's been a pretty good strategist  to my mind.

 

Ever noticed how the Tories biggest attack lines towards Starmer are his previous record as a 'leftie human rights lawyer' and the fact he served under Corbyn? They've got fuck all on him, because he's given them fuck all. 

 

 

 

They've got fuck all on him because he's almost identical to them. YIPEE!!!

 

 

[Creator Supreme]

48 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

That monumental cunt Aaron Banks tried to have a pop at him yesterday and got utterly humiliated

Starmer humiliated Banks?

 

If so, that's a tick in the positive column as Banks is an absolute weapon.