LFC approach Wigan for martinez

[Cardie]

Then stop posting about him.

 

 

 

So because your fans are uniformed. Shall we compare Mancini's managerial career to Martinez's shall we?

 

Fiorentina

Coppa Italia: 2000–01

Lazio

Coppa Italia: 2003–04

Internazionale

Serie A (3): 2005–06, 2006–07, 2007–08

Coppa Italia (2): 2004–05, 2005–06

Supercoppa Italiana (2): 2005, 2006

 

 

Martinez:

Football League One (1): 2007–08

 

How the fuck was Mancini not a big name?

 

His jump from coppa italia wins to titles with Inter was a leap, same with Allegri at Milan who went from midtable Cagliari (after managing in the lower leagues, to winning the league with Milan. Villanova has very little managerial experience and is taking over the best club side in the world. Klopp was a division 2 manager having taken Mainz down and failing to get them back to the Bundesliga at the first attempt before he took control at Dortmund.

[kalasoma]

I am not for one minute suggesting accepting 'whoever is out there who wants the job' and I never suggested that at all! You have focussed on this credentials being 'keeping Wigan out of relegation', but I think that is based on nothing other than how you personally percieve his strengths, they can just as likely be looking at the style of football and his ability to 'coach' a team to play that style of football. They maybe thinking that those skills are transferable and will improve with better players and a stronger support/coaching set up and that with a DoF identifying players his need to know about the 'top end' of the player market is negated. As a manager, I will be backing you 100% (well 80%), but I can see what they are trying to do, and I think it is a positive move.

 

But I am struggling to understand who exactly this top level manager is? And that is ignoring the fact that they don't want a manager, everyone keeps saying 'manager' they don't want one. We have had managers for the past 23 years and had one credible title challenge in that time, so why shouldn't they be looking for different ways of trying to achieve that?

 

I perceive his strengths based on what he's done as a manager. I do not have any other perception of him than what he's done, how he's done it or how long he's been doing it for. I guess I could try to pretend and imagine what he *could* do. I suppose he could transfer what he's done in terms of playing style, but so could any manager for that matter - as long as we have the players who can play that style.

 

That credible title challenge was by a top level manager (who won other things before he came to our club). Ok, you're right. FSG are looking for a coach. Then lets back a proven coach. But it still won't be Martinez for me. Sorry.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

Spot on. Its the manager's neck on the line if things go wrong, so let the players be the guys he wants not who some other fucker wants. I hope that cunt Whelan is wrong on this. Ive no problem with them recommending him players, but he should have the final say if they are going to be signed or not.

 

If the managers neck is always first on the block, why did Comolli go before Kenny?

 

I understand the huge risk with Martinez, but i don't see how trying out a more continental approach is the end of the world. I'd trust LvG's judgement on a player and general footballing philosophy over just about anyone's. The question is, is Martinez a good coach?

 

Half the people decrying this whole shift in structure are those who incessently moan about Kenny's bad signings vs Rafa's transfer duds. The whole point of the DoF position is intended to minimise the shift between managers and the acquisition of players only one manager in ten would rate at an astronomical price.

 

Would LvG as a more powerful DoF, with Martinez as coach/manager have given us Carroll at £35m and Downing at £20m? Which top level manager is itching to work with this illustrious pair, knowing he'd have trouble shifting them anyway? The transfers from one manager have been a thorn in the side of the next for a while now. Time gets wasted paying off contracts, looking for loan deals and finally having to give squad numbers to players who just aren't wanted. Degen, El Zhar, Poulsen, Cole, Konchesky, and probably some of Kenny's lot etc.

 

One of the reasons i didn't want Kenny to go was because he was half way through reshaping the squad, but it looks like a reshaping not many managers would be falling over themselves to continue. This is what, ideally, a consistent DoF is supposed to avoid.

 

I don't like the sound of Whelan's latest smug leak, but even if it were to be true, i'm willing to see how it pans out. It could be a shit storm, but i think unless we're going to spend like Russian criminals we need some kind of shake up as we're just not attracting the top names to the manager's position like we once were.

[fowler9]

I'd understand people being suicidal about Martinez if he was ten years older and still had only achieved what he has, I'm not saying he is the right man for the job but I don't think he should be written off, all we have to judge him on is Wigan and Swansea where he has achieved all expectations set of him with next to nothing to spend

 

for as great a player and manager Kenny has been in the past, and even was for the half season as caretaker, lets stop the illusions the league form last year was a fucking disgrace and had it been anyone but an LFC legend in charge of it they'd have been hounded out and it shouldn't be hard to better

[Glen C]

Well you can fuck off then can't you!?

 

Ha ha not you, you're a wanker.

[Paco]

[Anny Road]

I think you have to approach this appointment from a slightly different angle.

What we typically think of as a managers roll is vastly different from what the new man is going to be asked to do.

He will not have to scout players, discuss contracts or any of the other peripheral stuff most managers do. He will simply be tasked with preparing this group of players here to face that group of players over there. He will have the best of coaching assistance and required to play a certain way. They are looking for someone with the right tactical nouse prepared to work in a system. Boas seems made for the role. Martinez I don't know.

[TheHowieLama]

I think you have to approach this appointment from a slightly different angle.

What we typically think of as a managers roll is vastly different from what the new man is going to be asked to do.

He will not have to scout players, discuss contracts or any of the other peripheral stuff most managers do. He will simply be tasked with preparing this group of players here to face that group of players over there. He will have the best of coaching assistance and required to play a certain way. They are looking for someone with the right tactical nouse prepared to work in a system. Boas seems made for the role. Martinez I don't know.

 

More Pako than Rafa? Wait a minute....

[Phoenix]

he might suprise us all but its a risk we dont need to take when there are better options out there like Louis Van Gaal who are intersted but dont fit in FSG criteria based on overachieving.

[Il Fenomeno]

I think you have to approach this appointment from a slightly different angle.

What we typically think of as a managers roll is vastly different from what the new man is going to be asked to do.

He will not have to scout players, discuss contracts or any of the other peripheral stuff most managers do. He will simply be tasked with preparing this group of players here to face that group of players over there. He will have the best of coaching assistance and required to play a certain way. They are looking for someone with the right tactical nouse prepared to work in a system. Boas seems made for the role. Martinez I don't know.

 

Problem is what if the manager wants to play 3 at the back but the new DoF is buying players that are suited to playing in a back 4?

 

A manager/coach that isn't allowed to buy his own players to suit his tactics and vision is always going to end in disaster.

[Unrighteous]

Problem is what if the manager wants to play 3 at the back but the new DoF is buying players that are suited to playing in a back 4?

 

A manager/coach that isn't allowed to buy his own players to suit his tactics and vision is always going to end in disaster.

 

It fucking works... EVERYWHERE ELSE! Jesus fucking christ... England isn't another planet with other laws of reality.

[Anny Road]

Problem is what if the manager wants to play 3 at the back but the new DoF is buying players that are suited to playing in a back 4?

 

A manager/coach that isn't allowed to buy his own players to suit his tactics and vision is always going to end in disaster.

 

There will have to be some flexibility obviously but I would think any squad with top 4 and European aspirations would have sufficient players to operate under a few defensive systems.

[RobbieOR]

His jump from coppa italia wins to titles with Inter was a leap, same with Allegri at Milan who went from midtable Cagliari (after managing in the lower leagues, to winning the league with Milan. Villanova has very little managerial experience and is taking over the best club side in the world. Klopp was a division 2 manager having taken Mainz down and failing to get them back to the Bundesliga at the first attempt before he took control at Dortmund.

 

That is because Milan and Barca have structures in place that stay the same when a manager goes. We dont have that.

[stringvest]

It fucking works... EVERYWHERE ELSE! Jesus fucking christ... England isn't another planet with other laws of reality.

 

Have you driven around Norris Green?

[Manny]

I'm utterly baffled by all of this. If it is indeed Martinez, then good luck to him and needless to say I'll get behind him, but I'm struggling with the logic, really. I can see that they're trying to change the structure, but surely they can see that the way this is being perceived is damaging?

 

As much as anything, though, it looks like there's not a lot of information coming out of the club or the owners. As a result, the journos are having to get all their information from the candidate side rather than the employer side - and Dave Fucking Whelan is only to happy to dripfeed them this information, because he's a parasitic old lush who enjoys limelight by proxy. Martinez is one of a small number of people who there's direct and relevant quotes from, so the media are running with it.

 

As we always say, til he's in a pressed suit in the tunnel I'll keep counsel, but he'd better be coming alongside someone experienced because he won't have seen anything like what he's letting himself in for.

[Guest ShoePiss]

Martinez and Rodgers are both still scaring the shit out of me, I still see them as flavour of the month types and there's more than a whiff of Steve Coppell about them. I remember when Palace knocked us out of the cup semis in '90 and Coppell was being hailed as a genius, look at him! He's writing shit down on a notepad! Fucking genius!

 

We beat his Palace team 9-0 prior to that semi final which was quickly forgotten. Coppell went on to have a glittering career including holding the record for the shortest stint as manager citing pressure of the job at a very shit man city.

 

If one of these two get it I hope to fucking god we start off in the league positively.

[Unrighteous]

Have you driven around Norris Green?

 

Hahahaha... Ok, yeah, there are places that definitely seem like another planet.

[andrew78]

I'd understand people being suicidal about Martinez if he was ten years older and still had only achieved what he has, I'm not saying he is the right man for the job but I don't think he should be written off, all we have to judge him on is Wigan and Swansea where he has achieved all expectations set of him with next to nothing to spend

 

for as great a player and manager Kenny has been in the past, and even was for the half season as caretaker, lets stop the illusions the league form last year was a fucking disgrace and had it been anyone but an LFC legend in charge of it they'd have been hounded out and it shouldn't be hard to better

 

What puts me off is he looks and sounds like a yes man,i want someone with passion and who will defend our club and take no shit. Can you see him telling ferguson to fuck off i carnt ,its a fible appointment if carried out shows lack of vision and balls,ah fuck it im getting sick of these americans who know fuck all about football

[Cardie]

That is because Milan and Barca have structures in place that stay the same when a manager goes. We dont have that.

 

But it's what we're looking to do.

[Il Fenomeno]

It fucking works... EVERYWHERE ELSE! Jesus fucking christ... England isn't another planet with other laws of reality.

 

Where?

 

I am pretty sure Ferguson, Mourinho, Wenger, Mancini and Guardiola have (or had in Guardiola's case) the final say on who they sign for the team. They do not have someone above them deciding who to sign. I doubt Mourinho or Ferguson would still be at their respective clubs if they weren't allowed to decide who the club targets and buys.

 

There will have to be some flexibility obviously but I would think any squad with top 4 and European aspirations would have sufficient players to operate under a few defensive systems.

 

Its hard to see it going well if I am being honest mate. I can see things like certain signings being left out because the manager didn't want him just to prove a point. And yet again it will be the supporters that have to suffer because of the management fighting amongst themselves.

[TheHowieLama]

If the smartest fans in the world cant get their heads around the system what hope does some no mark like Martinez - much less a plank like Carroll have - we r fukd

[Cardie]

It fucking works... EVERYWHERE ELSE! Jesus fucking christ... England isn't another planet with other laws of reality.

 

no, no, England is unique apparently, it won't accept it because it doesn't work in England and the press don't like it.

 

There's no chance of it working in an English side....with mostly foreign players.... and, potentially, a foreign manager.......plus coaches.....and foreign owners.....this is England dammit.

[Tony Edwards]

Martinez and Rodgers are both still scaring the shit out of me, I still see them as flavour of the month types and there's more than a whiff of Steve Coppell about them. I remember when Palace knocked us out of the cup semis in '90 and Coppell was being hailed as a genius, look at him! He's writing shit down on a notepad! Fucking genius!

 

We beat his Palace team 9-0 prior to that semi final which was quickly forgotten. Coppell went on to have a glittering career including holding the record for the shortest stint as manager citing pressure of the job at a very shit man city.

 

If one of these two get it I hope to fucking god we start off in the league positively.

 

If one of those two gets the job, we all know how it will end don't we? We've been here before. The fact that they're the only two in the frame is truly mind-boggling.

[Cardie]

If the smartest fans in the world cant get their heads around the system what hope does some no mark like Martinez - much less a plank like Carroll have - we r fukd

 

The supporters and the players don't have to 'get it', Martinez is alot smarter than the majority of our supporters.

[MLB]

Probably best not to get too worked up until the decision is made. I don't think there is a single person who wants Martinez, or who thinks he is an adequate replacement for Kenny, but the decision isn't made yet.

 

I will say in advance though that I think the idea of Martinez as manager and Van Gaal above him buying the players is very poor and bound to fail.