Rise of the far right in Europe.

[moof]

So are you saying their shouldn't be allowed to express their ideas or that the mainstream media shouldn't report on it?

I was referring mostly to their figureheads and cheerleaders in politics and also mainstream and alternative media, yes. But I also think the “we have to have a conversation with fascists and beat them with logic” plan is so horrifically infantile and fails to recognise the severity of the situation in which we find ourselves.

 

Steve Bannon doing the rounds on breakfast tv and radio being a prime example of someone who should be told in no uncertain terms to fuck the fuck off.

[Section_31]

LBC political editor on Twitter

 

 

'Bannon to me off-air: "Fuck you. Don't you fucking say you're calling me out. You fucking liberal elite. Tommy Robinson is the backbone of this country.""

[Numero Veinticinco]

I don't see how we can have a free society without giving those we heartily oppose the freedom to express their views. I also don't see how we can dictate what private companies and media conglomerates, and even massive YouTube channels, say or who their speak to. If the answer is censorship, authoritarian denial of expression, etc, then I'm not into it.

[moof]

LBC political editor on Twitter

 

 

'Bannon to me off-air: "Fuck you. Don't you fucking say you're calling me out. You fucking liberal elite. Tommy Robinson is the backbone of this country.""

Hahaha. Fucking hell.

 

But that’s exactly what I mean, LBC has a sizeable reach for talk radio, in the millions; and here we have a Nigel fucking Farage presented show giving reach arounds to influential far-right fascist thought leaders. That is not conducive to a healthy or stable democracy, regardless of whether or not he was ‘challenged’ on his views.

[Numero Veinticinco]

Hahaha. Fucking hell.

 

But that’s exactly what I mean, LBC has a sizeable reach for talk radio, in the millions; and here we have a Nigel fucking Farage presented show giving reach arounds to influential far-right fascist thought leaders. That is not conducive to a healthy or stable democracy, regardless of whether or not he was ‘challenged’ on his views.

LBC is a private company, how do you propose that this is stopped? I mean, there's only one way.

[Strontium]

I don't see how we can have a free society without giving those we heartily oppose the freedom to express their views.

It's quaint that you still think moof and his ilk want a free society, given the effort they go to to turn every arena into an echo chamber.

[moof]

LBC is a private company, how do you propose that this is stopped? I mean, there's only one way.

More financial regulations, a wide reaching enquiry into press freedom, penalties for deliberately and repeatedly spreading false news/lies/propaganda. I dunno. I don’t really have a solution, but the current system is in a self perpetuating spiral to the absolute bottom and it’s dragging us all down with it.

[moof]

It's quaint that you still think moof and his ilk want a free society, given the effort they go to to turn every arena into an echo chamber.

We don’t have a fucking free society as it is, and it’s getting exponentially less free for the majority of people. You think limiting the influence of fascism is the antithesis of freedom?

[Numero Veinticinco]

More financial regulations, a wide reaching enquiry into press freedom, penalties for deliberately and repeatedly spreading false news/lies/propaganda. I dunno. I don’t really have a solution, but the current system is in a self perpetuating spiral to the absolute bottom and it’s dragging us all down with it.

There’s only one way, which is government restriction on what is said. If we let the government dictate what can and cannot be said, based off of what people like or find acceptable, then I’m out. I fucking hate fascism, but I see far more danger in taking fascistic, authoritarian measures like that than a few cunts looking like cunts.

[Hades]

More financial regulations, a wide reaching enquiry into press freedom, penalties for deliberately and repeatedly spreading false news/lies/propaganda. I dunno. I don’t really have a solution, but the current system is in a self perpetuating spiral to the absolute bottom and it’s dragging us all down with it.

 

If you block free speech we won't be able to cheer Murdoch's death.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

Espadrilles are the new Doc Martins.

 

Indeed. Say what you like about Mosley, but at least he dressed the part.

[moof]

There’s only one way, which is government restriction on what is said. If we let the government dictate what can and cannot be said, based off of what people like or find acceptable, then I’m out. I fucking hate fascism, but I see far more danger in taking fascistic, authoritarian measures like that than a few cunts looking like cunts.

Ok, so what do you suggest?

[moof]

If you block free speech we won't be able to cheer Murdoch's death.

Not free speech, old chap. Hate speech

[Numero Veinticinco]

Ok, so what do you suggest?

Freedom of expression.

[Numero Veinticinco]

Not free speech, old chap. Hate speech

Hate speech laws are already in place. In fact, im not sure they’re not overused, mate. We’re clearly an ocean apart on this one.

[Hades]

Not free speech, old chap. Hate speech

Who decides what hate speech is? It's too difficult to police and takes energy away from actually organising and educating workers to fight back against capitalism.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Bannon on LBC was apparently also saying that people in the UK would need to "fight to take their country back."

 

It looks like some of the pro-Tommy/Trump lot have started applying a restricted interpretation to such messages and are on the streets, armed with sticks, beating people up, causing public disorder etc.

 

So, if these problems escalate, are we still going to be rational with these rabble rousers and let them continue to incite others to do their dirty work and deal with this increasing menace by a "hey guys,I don't necessarily agree with your opinion, but I respect your right to voice it. Let's discuss this over a coffee" approach?

 

I'm not sure that'll work, for me?

[Numero Veinticinco]

There’s already laws against incitement to violence.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

There’s already laws against incitement to violence.

Really! Well, I never...

 

I'd advocate a more proactive approach though. If you limit the audience, the risk of an innocent person getting hurt from a bigots call to arms is diminished.

 

For me, innocent people not getting hurt is more important than giving somebody a voice to stoke up possible violence, irrespective of whether they'll subsequently incur criminal liability or not.

[Rico1304]

Bannon on LBC was apparently also saying that people in the UK would need to "fight to take their country back."

 

It looks like some of the pro-Tommy/Trump lot have started applying a restricted interpretation to such messages and are on the streets, armed with sticks, beating people up, causing public disorder etc.

 

So, if these problems escalate, are we still going to be rational with these rabble rousers and let them continue to incite others to do their dirty work and deal with this increasing menace by a "hey guys,I don't necessarily agree with your opinion, but I respect your right to voice it. Let's discuss this over a coffee" approach?

 

I'm not sure that'll work, for me?

I listened to it, he’s a toad of the highest magnitude but he wasn’t espousing anything beyond holding politicians to account if they don’t deliver.

[Numero Veinticinco]

Really! Well, I never...

Yes, really. Had you only considered it before making your previous post.

 

I'd advocate a more proactive approach though.

A proactive approach to hate speech. Huh. I don’t think you and I are capable of having a meaningful discussion, unfortunately. I’m not a big fan of thought-crime, I’m not a big fan of censorship, I’m not a big fan of restricting views because I personally don’t like them. That’s why I’m not a fascist. I don’t plan on endorsing fascistic, authoritarian measures any time soon.

[Section_31]

I Don't know whether you call it free speech or not, but you wouldn't have seen any of this patter on telly 15, 10, or even five years ago.

 

Why is Farage still in the public eye? Because he says shocking shit. Why do the media like that? Because it gets readers/viewers/clicks.

 

Meanwhile it seaps down into the floorboards of society, normalizing things which shouldn't be normal and quietly rotting the foundations.

 

Robinson has been a joke for years, why is he suddenly now the champion of the oppressed?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Hate speech laws are already in place. In fact, im not sure they’re not overused, mate. We’re clearly an ocean apart on this one.

I'm absolutely sure the hate speech laws are underused. It is commonplace for our best-selling national newspapers to effectively incite violence against minorities with impunity.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

There’s already laws against incitement to violence.

Well, they're working a treat.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Who decides what hate speech is?

Legislators and judges.