UKIP

[KMD7]

Its up to the media to open people's eyes to ukip by showing exactly what they represent not by going for the lowest common denominator and labeling them racists. It makes people defensive, there's plenty who are suspicious of the EU who are not racist they know themselves they are not rascist so see the headlines as nothing more than personal attacks in order to keep the status quo. If the media hammered home ukips views on things other than the EU I think anybody with views that are naturally more to the left would distance themselves. Personally I'm happy for them to take Tory votes.

 

Could you imagine a Tory ukip coalition. Jesus fucking Christ.

 

Fucking hell that's End of days type shit there Bobby!!

[magicrat]

I have no doubt UKIP will be footnote in British political history in 10 years time and Farage will be yesterdays chinless wonder.

As for a UKIP / Tory alliance then they will need to win more than zero seats in the General Election which I still find a remote possibility.

I salute the guy that egged the tosser by the way. Top work and the appropriate response to their mickey mouse politics. More egging please

[Dr Nowt]

 

Word.

[lifetime fan]

 

Word.

Spot on Lizzie, I can remember watching that episode.

[magicrat]

 

Word.

 

Watched that . Smug chinless wonder met his match. Blathered on about European Union being in terminal decline and in 10 years time it will be history. I know what will be history in a decade . Fucking hate these single issue crusaders winding everyone up with their scaremongering.

This guy is cut above the Nick Griffin areshole because he has half a brain and doesn't look like that skull cracker bloke but he's basically peddling the same lies. Cunt

 

 

I know aht will be 

[PestiRed]

The delightful leader of Jobbik has now condemned his former partners at UKIP, BNP and the French National Front as being puppets of the Jews due to their anti Islam stance.

 

These guys polled over 20% in the general election

[RedRazor]

 

Word.

Sorry - I know it is not the vogue to be nice to UKIP but I thought the guy in the audience was himself a bombastic tosser. He rants on about McCarthyism and Rivers Of Blood and then links to elections held in a climate of fear. He then stated that these are things that have driven Europe to war........ Both of these first two happened after WWII ended and while I detect disillusion, apathy and antipathy towards the political process in this country - I certainly don't recognise his "climate of fear".

 

The guy was a fucking Grade A gobshite.

[Jairzinho]

I was more disappointed, although not surprised, by the rest of the panel (Caroline Lucas aside). Their triumphant scoffing at Farage, seemingly oblivious, or uncaring, at the fact this fucking imbecile and his racist rhetoric is garnering sizeable support across the country as a response to how utterly abysmal the three main parties currently are. Spineless, selfish, shithouse cunts. Almost to a fucking man. You've got nothing to be cheering yourselves about, certainly not in public, you fucking quegs.

[RedRazor]

Watched that . Smug chinless wonder met his match. Blathered on about European Union being in terminal decline and in 10 years time it will be history. I know what will be history in a decade . Fucking hate these single issue crusaders winding everyone up with their scaremongering.

This guy is cut above the Nick Griffin areshole because he has half a brain and doesn't look like that skull cracker bloke but he's basically peddling the same lies. Cunt

 

 

I know aht will be 

So what scaremongering? What lies?

[RedRazor]

I was more disappointed, although not surprised, by the rest of the panel (Caroline Lucas aside). Their triumphant scoffing at Farage, seemingly oblivious, or uncaring, at the fact this fucking imbecile and his racist rhetoric is garnering sizeable support across the country as a response to how utterly abysmal the three main parties currently are. Spineless, selfish, shithouse cunts. Almost to a fucking man. You've got nothing to be cheering yourselves about, certainly not in public, you fucking quegs.

I must have missed that bit. What did he say that was remotely racist?

[Jairzinho]

I must have missed that bit. What did he say that was remotely racist?

 

I can't remember if he said anything racist on this particular Question Time. I meant in general.

[RedRazor]

I can't remember if he said anything racist on this particular Question Time. I meant in general.

Such as? Any examples?

[RedRazor]

I have no doubt UKIP will be footnote in British political history in 10 years time and Farage will be yesterdays chinless wonder.

As for a UKIP / Tory alliance then they will need to win more than zero seats in the General Election which I still find a remote possibility.

I salute the guy that egged the tosser by the way. Top work and the appropriate response to their mickey mouse politics. More egging please

 "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"  Evelyn Beatrice Hall from her biography of Voltaire.

 

Just a thought.

[Anubis]

 

Word.

 

Watched some of it for the first time in ages on Thursday and saw that. Bravo, sir.

[skend04]

So what scaremongering? What lies?

That it costs the UK £55m per day to be a part of Europe but fails to mention the money that comes in or that he doesn't fiddle expenses himself. Has Nige opened his accounts for auditing yet or is it OK to fiddle our tax money because it goes to Europe? The bottling quim.

[Spy Bee]

Some of the concerns are legitimate. The EU have never published their accounts. That's a worry. They have a complete lack of policy depth though. Are any of the people that are praising them aware that they support virtually zero rights for workers?

[Lycan]

Nobody would even be talking about a little party like UKIP if the Tories, Labour and the Lib Dems weren't so untrustworthy and quite frankly shit. But because they are, because the working class people don't feel like they aren't being listened to on issues like immigration, parties like UKIP and the BNP to a lesser extent are gaining more and more popularity by the day. And because of that I can see UKIP gaining quite a few votes in both the European and General elections myself. Sad really.

[Section_31]

I've no doubt the EU is corrupt as fuck in places and extremely wasteful, but I think its influence counters a lot of the neo liberal shit the UK and US governments like to spin, for example that we should all live the life of a bettery hen and have virtually no restraints on things like working hours.

 

It's the EU that put limits on how much you can work, the EU that means you can now fall into the River Mersey and not have your stomach pumped and don't have to swim through turds on Southport beach.

 

It's the EU trying to rein in banking excess, which is why it's suddenly become so uncool.

 

Growing up in Liverpool virtually every big regeneration project had some sort of EU component.

 

Makes me laugh the way they talk about having control of our borders. We had the right to cap the amount of Polish labour coming in but we actively chose not to so we could drive down wages in the construction industry while we were in the midst of a housing boom,when jobs became more scarce though the Poles were a problem and it suddenly became the EU's fault.

 

Britain is like the states, virtually everything that gets said and done is to line a richer guy's pocket, so I take the default position that if someone like Fragae and an army of Tory backbenchers don't like something, it's probably gonna be good for me.

[VladimirIlyich]

I've no doubt the EU is corrupt as fuck in places and extremely wasteful, but I think its influence counters a lot of the neo liberal shit the UK and US governments like to spin, for example that we should all live the life of a bettery hen and have virtually no restraints on things like working hours.

 

It's the EU that put limits on how much you can work, the EU that means you can now fall into the River Mersey and not have your stomach pumped and don't have to swim through turds on Southport beach.

 

It's the EU trying to rein in banking excess, which is why it's suddenly become so uncool.

 

Growing up in Liverpool virtually every big regeneration project had some sort of EU component.

 

Makes me laugh the way they talk about having control of our borders. We had the right to cap the amount of Polish labour coming in but we actively chose not to so we could drive down wages in the construction industry while we were in the midst of a housing boom,when jobs became more scarce though the Poles were a problem and it suddenly became the EU's fault.

 

Britain is like the states, virtually everything that gets said and done is to line a richer guy's pocket, so I take the default position that if someone like Fragae and an army of Tory backbenchers don't like something, it's probably gonna be good for me.

Cracking post Mark.

 

Pretty much why I've never been a big Euro sceptic even though I realise there is a fair amount of beaurocratic nonsense that goes on.Same as with all large political organisations.

 

I am pretty sure that their efforts to restrict working hours across Europe to a reasonable level are not even supported by own government and one of the reasons the EU receives so much negative media coverage.

 

Without the EU a lot of the urban regeneration on and around Merseyside simply wouldn't have happened or not on as large a scale at least.

[RedRazor]

Some of the concerns are legitimate. The EU have never published their accounts. That's a worry. They have a complete lack of policy depth though. Are any of the people that are praising them aware that they support virtually zero rights for workers?

Agree entirely with your post.

 

Who on here is praising them? Hopefully you are not putting me in that camp?

 

For the record, I see them as a single issue protest party. The fact that they have no depth to any of their other policies is, imo, a sympton of that. I am sure that if I could be bothered looking at the policies of people like the Green Party there would be some fairly immature proposals in there also. (but I can't be bothered). But it is all irrelevant as they will never gain any power or influence anyway. So why do you, the media and the other three parties focus so much on these irrelevancies? Is it to dodge the primary issue on which they standing?  They want us out of the EU and it is as simple as that.

[Spy Bee]

Agree entirely with your post.

 

Who on here is praising them? Hopefully you are not putting me in that camp?

I wasn't suggesting anybody on here was.

 

A lot of people in the wider world are no longer ashamed of publicly showing their support for UKIP. That taboo is gone. As I stated much earlier on in the thread, I think UKIP are quite ugly, but I think they may represent a new age of politics and I think that makes them absolutely necessary.

[RedRazor]

I've no doubt the EU is corrupt as fuck in places and extremely wasteful, but I think its influence counters a lot of the neo liberal shit the UK and US governments like to spin, for example that we should all live the life of a bettery hen and have virtually no restraints on things like working hours.

 

It's the EU that put limits on how much you can work, the EU that means you can now fall into the River Mersey and not have your stomach pumped and don't have to swim through turds on Southport beach.

 

It's the EU trying to rein in banking excess, which is why it's suddenly become so uncool.

 

Growing up in Liverpool virtually every big regeneration project had some sort of EU component.

 

Makes me laugh the way they talk about having control of our borders. We had the right to cap the amount of Polish labour coming in but we actively chose not to so we could drive down wages in the construction industry while we were in the midst of a housing boom,when jobs became more scarce though the Poles were a problem and it suddenly became the EU's fault.

 

Britain is like the states, virtually everything that gets said and done is to line a richer guy's pocket, so I take the default position that if someone like Fragae and an army of Tory backbenchers don't like something, it's probably gonna be good for me.

 

I don't disagree with the sentiment but the two phrases in bold - to me they are the same people. It isn't the Greek small holder overstating the number of olive trees he has but the large landowners and corporations who are creaming the system. The EU is as corrupt as fuck which is why they cannot find an independant accountant to sign off their audited accounts.

 

You mention waste and a massive contributer to this is the bi-annual switch between Brussels and Strasbourg. Why the fuck do they do this? It costs absolutely millions. Have it in one place - and I don't care which.

 

You mention the clean up of the Mersey and condemn the Tories yet the prime mover behind the set up of the Merseybasin cleanup was Michael Hesletine. Admittedly the EU contributed to the process both financially and through ever more stringent legislation but we had already begun to move in that direction. There is no doubt that the EU have made it happen much faster.The bulk of the cost, though, was borne by the water rate payers of the north west. 

 

You mention the number of hours that people have to work yet the UK (under the Tories) negotiated an opt out. To the shame of New Labour they failed to correct this despite being in office for 13 years. But my view is that it is a load of rubbish anyway. Not just in the UK but across Europe. People largely choose to abide by it or ignore it depending on which suits their personal circumstances. 

 

As for reining in bankers excesses I think we need to be very careful. There are over a million people in this country who work in financial services and very very few earn big money. It represents about 3% of the workforce but contributes about 10% of the government's income. No other large country in the EU relies on financial services for such a disproportionate level of their income. It is galling that the people who caused the economic challenges we now face appear to have got off scot free and continue to be rewarded obscenely for their incompetence. But I am suspicious of the EU motivation for their stance. Is it really just an attempt to shift a nice little earner from London to Paris and Frankfurt? 

 

But I think the big question that needs to asked is where is the EU heading? My view is that the political classes are driving towards an ultimate goal of creating a "United States of Europe" where all significant power and decision making will be centralised at the heart of Europe. There will be one army, one currency, one central bank, one overiding set of economic policies. All the individual states will be able to do is vote on whether pubs can open on a Sunday and similar. If you want to buy into this then all you need to do is absolutely nothing. I want to be asked the question so that I can make my own decision and have my say.  

[Strontium]

Some of the concerns are legitimate. The EU have never published their accounts. That's a worry. They have a complete lack of policy depth though. Are any of the people that are praising them aware that they support virtually zero rights for workers?

 

This is utter fucking bullshit, and a perfect example of the outright lies that are bandied around and accepted as truth by the gullible hordes in this country.

 

Another example of a popular lie is "75% of our laws are made in Brussels", which is swallowed uncritically even though that figure of 75% seems to change with every repetition.

 

Anyway, here is a press release from the European Court of Auditors from last November

 

http://www.eca.europa.eu/Lists/ECADocuments/PRAR12/a13_36.EN.pdf

 

The annual report on the EU budget for 2012 financial year was published today by the European Court of Auditors (ECA). As independent auditor, the ECA has signed off the 2012 accounts of the European Union, as it has done each year since the 2007 financial year

 

and also 

 

In the ECA’s opinion, the consolidated accounts of the European Union present fairly, in all material respects, the financial position of the Union as at 31 December 2012, the results of its operations, its cash flows and the changes in net assets for the year then ended. 

 

EU revenue underlying the 2012 accounts is legal and regular in all material respects. Commitments underlying the 2012 accounts are legal and regular in all material respects.

 

Of course, the truth isn't as interesting as fiction.

[Spy Bee]

Another example of a popular lie is "75% of our laws are made in Brussels", which is swallowed uncritically even though that figure of 75% seems to change with every repetition.

 

I think you kind of disproved your own theory there.

[Strontium]

I've no doubt the EU is corrupt as fuck in places and extremely wasteful

 

80% of the EU budget is spent by individual governments. If there's corruption and waste within the EU, the vast majority of it is from individual nations and not the EU.

 

So far as fraud is concerned, the estimate is that no more than 0.2% of the EU budget is affected by fraud. Which is obviously a large chunk of money, but very far from being pervasive.

 

I think you kind of disproved your own theory there.

No, I'm just pointing out that the liars can't even keep their story straight, but 75% seems to be the most commonly cited figure.