Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Gnasher]

12 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Gnashers been posting on here for 5 years? Fuck me WW1 only lasted 4 

I've been posting a bit longer than that.

 

We used to have some top notch posters arguing either way on the EU till the bully boys forced them off the sire. And that's a fact.

[Bjornebye]

2 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

I've been posting a bit longer than that.

 

We used to have some top notch posters arguing either way on the EU till the bully boys forced them off the sire. And that's a fact.

Did we? Who? 

[Anubis]

6 hours ago, Bruce Spanner said:

New Zealand have said they could veto us joing the CPTPP, which was one of the big hopes post Brexit, if we fuck up the NI issue, which the posturing certainly indicates.

 

World beating stupidity.

 

So, they have fucked off China, The US is having words, The EU can not trust a word we say and now Arden is flexing her muscles about entry to the CPTPP!

 

You couldn't make this shit up trade deals fucked up giving concessions we didn't before, the NI protocol done so badly the Good Friday agreement is under threat triggering a referendum, the pound is still one fifth down on 2016, inflation up, import/exports all over the fucking place bringing legimate shortage possibilities, financial sector screwed over, fishing, farming and the arts the same, removal of research funding for science and universities.

 

Who are these fucking imbeciles?

Yeah, but once they see our £200m yacht they’ll all want a piece of the hot UK action..,

[Bruce Spanner]

10 minutes ago, Anubis said:

Yeah, but once they see our £200m yacht they’ll all want a piece of the hot UK action..,

HMS loadoftossthatwasoutsourcedandrealbudget reducedtosixteenquidafterallthosecuntstookacut.
 

Pulls in to harbour.

[Gnasher]

13 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Did we? Who? 

Boss? Top poster anti EU no longer posts, and a few more. Come on.

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, Gnasher said:

Boss? Top poster anti EU no longer posts, and a few more. Come on.

Was @Boss anti-eu? Was he chased away by remainers? who else? Come on 

[Rico1304]

8 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Was @Boss anti-eu? Was he chased away by remainers? who else? Come on 

Didn’t Boss go on a massive racist rant and get banned?  

[Mudface]

44 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Amazed more isn't being made of the now quite obvious food shortages. Anyone been to a supermarket lately? Seen more fruit and veg on an American kid's plate. 

My eldest works in the local co-op, about the size of a large Spar shop. Their shelves have looked like a Soviet supermarket for the last week or two. He was saying that they're getting about a third of the deliveries that they used to as there's no lorry drivers available. Morrison's is looking pretty ragged too, as was the Tesco's in North Wales I went to the other week. 

[Moo]

17 minutes ago, Mudface said:

My eldest works in the local co-op, about the size of a large Spar shop. Their shelves have looked like a Soviet supermarket for the last week or two. He was saying that they're getting about a third of the deliveries that they used to as there's no lorry drivers available. Morrison's is looking pretty ragged too, as was the Tesco's in North Wales I went to the other week. 

The food shortages and increased prices are obvious, it's just some people won't admit it, or will blame Covid.

[Megadrive Man]

32 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Was @Boss anti-eu? Was he chased away by remainers? who else? Come on 

 

From what I remember he was more anti Corbyn than anti EU. He got fed up of arguing about it and left. 

[Mudface]

6 minutes ago, Moo said:

The food shortages and increased prices are obvious, it's just some people won't admit it, or will blame Covid.

It's like the Trump cult, they'll just refuse to admit that Brexit was a terrible idea because it'll mean they were wrong.

[deiseach]

11 hours ago, MegadriveMan said:

From what I remember he was more anti Corbyn than anti EU. He got fed up of arguing about it and left. 

Boss was - still is, I assume - an uber-libertarian. I remember, for example, his belief that you should have the 'right' to shriek in someone's face, getting as close as you like. It would only become a problem if you hit them. It was exquisitely sociopathic, and you had to wonder what he was hearing when he listened to the music of Bruce Springsteen.

[Gnasher]

13 hours ago, Moo said:

The food shortages and increased prices are obvious, it's just some people won't admit it, or will blame Covid.

I'll admit its got a lot to do with Brexit. I also think it can be a good thing, people getting what they need rather than what they want. Also its about time we gave a greater degree of appreciation to those working in low paid mundane jobs which get food from the fields to our plates, how much do warehouse staff in tesco earn, or fruit and veg pickers, haulage drivers? Not enough is probably the correct answer. As with Covid and the NHS workers it shines a light on the worth of people in everyday occupations.

[Gnasher]

Zing..

 

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I don't really know what "Maastricht rules" he's talking about.  I'm assuming that there are rules (unequally enforced, depending on whether you're a rich powerful country like France or a poorer one like Greece) which dictate fixed limits on the National Debt/GDP ratio and that the penalties for breaching the limit is imposed austerity.  If that's the case, then both of those things stink.

 

There should be guidelines about National Debt/GDP, so that when it starts getting high Member States should have to produce a credible plan for reducing it in the medium term (even if that means a short-term increase, due to infrastructure investments, etc.)  Austerity is never the answer, either economically or politically.

[Gnasher]

32 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I don't really know what "Maastricht rules" he's talking about.  I'm assuming that there are rules (unequally enforced, depending on whether you're a rich powerful country like France or a poorer one like Greece) which dictate fixed limits on the National Debt/GDP ratio and that the penalties for breaching the limit is imposed austerity.  If that's the case, then both of those things stink.

 

There should be guidelines about National Debt/GDP, so that when it starts getting high Member States should have to produce a credible plan for reducing it in the medium term (even if that means a short-term increase, due to infrastructure investments, etc.)  Austerity is never the answer, either economically or politically.

Yes that's what he's talking about. Countries are restricted to what they can spend basically. Remember a few years ago the Italian government (right wing but alas) were stopped by the EU giving a one off payment to the unemployed and low paid to boost their economy?

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I don't really know what "Maastricht rules" he's talking about.  I'm assuming that there are rules (unequally enforced, depending on whether you're a rich powerful country like France or a poorer one like Greece) which dictate fixed limits on the National Debt/GDP ratio and that the penalties for breaching the limit is imposed austerity.  If that's the case, then both of those things stink.

 

There should be guidelines about National Debt/GDP, so that when it starts getting high Member States should have to produce a credible plan for reducing it in the medium term (even if that means a short-term increase, due to infrastructure investments, etc.)  Austerity is never the answer, either economically or politically.

Well if austerity isn't the answer (which it isn't) I'm confused by your dogmatic defence of an organisation which has austerity running through its veins, european austerity has lead to mass youth unemployment and increased inequality. 

 

 

https://www.redpepper.org.uk/the-trouble-with-being-both-anti-austerity-and-pro-eu/

 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/europe-austerity-eu-facism-italy-matteo-salvini-league-five-star-movement-luigi-di-maio-a8619791.html

[No2]

2 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I don't really know what "Maastricht rules" he's talking about.  I'm assuming that there are rules (unequally enforced, depending on whether you're a rich powerful country like France or a poorer one like Greece) which dictate fixed limits on the National Debt/GDP ratio and that the penalties for breaching the limit is imposed austerity.  If that's the case, then both of those things stink.

 

There should be guidelines about National Debt/GDP, so that when it starts getting high Member States should have to produce a credible plan for reducing it in the medium term (even if that means a short-term increase, due to infrastructure investments, etc.)  Austerity is never the answer, either economically or politically.

I believe that is the case, Gnashers bestie was in Ireland this week approving the Irish plan to bring it back within the targets.  A bit like FFP,  they turned a blind eye to the rules last year. Now they're onto to the clean up part.

[Gnasher]

5 minutes ago, No2 said:

I believe that is the case, Gnashers bestie was in Ireland this week approving the Irish plan to bring it back within the targets.  A bit like FFP,  they turned a blind eye to the rules last year. Now they're onto to the clean up part.

Or in other words 'austerity'.

 

Ursula was indeed swanning around Ireland the other day looking every inch the princess.

[No2]

Just now, Gnasher said:

Or in other words 'austerity'.

 

Ursula was indeed swanning around Ireland the other day looking every inch the princess.

Would you?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

Well if austerity isn't the answer (which it isn't) I'm confused by your dogmatic defence of an organisation which has austerity running through its veins, european austerity has lead to mass youth unemployment and increased inequality. 

 

 

https://www.redpepper.org.uk/the-trouble-with-being-both-anti-austerity-and-pro-eu/

 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/europe-austerity-eu-facism-italy-matteo-salvini-league-five-star-movement-luigi-di-maio-a8619791.html

The EU is not inherently pro-austerity any more than the UK Government is.  For the last few decades there have been neoliberals in charge of both (moreso in the UK) but prior to that, there was a better chance for decent policies. The politics of the current crowd is not an argument in favour of the dissolution of either the UK or the EU. 

 

Because the EU is not the same thing as austerity, it's perfectly possible to oppose austerity and support the continued existence (and the UK's membership) of the EU.  Don't take my word for it: ask Yanis Varoufakis. 

 

As for the EU opposing the far-right populists in Italy, as I recall at the time they were also supporting the anti-austerity programme of the left-leaning government in Portugal  - but you were silent on that one, because the facts didn't fit your agenda.

[No2]

2 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Or in other words 'austerity'.

 

Ursula was indeed swanning around Ireland the other day looking every inch the princess.

I haven't read much on it, what I know is its a €750bn stimulus fund to boost the EU economy. Approval on how to spend it is required, so if you wanted a new ship or a garden bridge you would be told to fuck off.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

5 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Or in other words 'austerity'.

 

This suggests the opposite.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/irish-times-view-on-ursula-von-der-leyen-s-visit-edging-out-of-brexit-s-shadow-1.4623949

[Gnasher]

4 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

The EU is not inherently pro-austerity any more than the UK Government is.  For the last few decades there have been neoliberals in charge of both (moreso in the UK) but prior to that, there was a better chance for decent policies. The politics of the current crowd is not an argument in favour of the dissolution of either the UK or the EU. 

 

Because the EU is not the same thing as austerity, it's perfectly possible to oppose austerity and support the continued existence (and the UK's membership) of the EU.  Don't take my word for it: ask Yanis Varoufakis. 

 

As for the EU opposing the far-right populists in Italy, as I recall at the time they were also supporting the anti-austerity programme of the left-leaning government in Portugal  - but you were silent on that one, because the facts didn't fit your agenda.

I'm not pitching our government against the EU, its not an either/or question although I do concede our government is far far worse than the EU and that's saying something.

[Gnasher]

2 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

This suggests the opposite.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/irish-times-view-on-ursula-von-der-leyen-s-visit-edging-out-of-brexit-s-shadow-1.4623949

We'll see.