"Kick it Out" campaign

[zigackly]

i didn't mean on here, i meant generally and i didn't say anything racist, i just said anything that was designed to have maximum hurtful impact?

 

I'm not sure where you're going with this, but I draw a line at insulting someone in a bigoted manner both on here and in life generally.

[Philbert]

I'd wear a "Kick Rio Out Of Football" T-shirt, the curly-lipped, camel-faced fucking cunt.

 

Can someone Photoshop something along these lines? I've a few Manc fans I would want to share that with. Thanks

[Sandford]

I'm not sure where you're going with this, but I draw a line at insulting someone in a bigoted manner both on here and in life generally.

 

Good politicians answer.

 

Where was i going with it?

 

Because if you said that you haven't I'd be willing to say you have, and that you should be able to see the point i am making but i can see i am wasting my time.

[zigackly]

Because if you said that you haven't I'd be willing to say you have, and that you should be able to see the point i am making but i can see i am wasting my time.

 

No, I don't see your point. There are certain things I wouldn't say, or see any point in saying. I'm not beyond having a shout at someone or calling them all kinds of cunt, but there are certain lines I wouldn't cross.

 

You're the one saying it's acceptable to hurl racist abuse at someone, yet I get the feeling you want to tell me I'm in the wrong here.

 

Does that strike you as a bit fucking weird?

[Trumo]

Since October 2011, there have been so many people falling over themselves trying to show the world how abhorrent they are towards racism, that all they've done is add hysteria to any valid debate and got themselves in a muddle as to which side they're on. All these people are now moaning about the supposed ineffectualness of 'Kick It Out' and suggesting that it is only paying lip service to the problem, yet they didn't seem to have a problem with 'Kick It Out' when its chairman and various others were mouthing off with a viewpoint based on media hysteria rather than looking at the evidence, or lack thereof.

 

Whether player A did or did not say something racist to player B is not the issue. That is not to say it's not important or that it doesn't matter, but it's the ridiculous hysteria and gobshitery (if there's such a word) that was allowed to go unchecked that leaves things where they are. The FA, the media and the various anti-racism groups are complicit in that. People that have tried to build themselves a public profile or score points off the back of this issue are complicit in that.

[Sandford]

No, I don't see your point. There are certain things I wouldn't say, or see any point in saying. I'm not beyond having a shout at someone or calling them all kinds, but there are lines I wouldn't cross.

 

Fair enough, you are a better person than me then.

 

I think we can agree that racism is wrong its just i don't see it as black and white (excuse the pun) as you do.

[zigackly]

Fair enough, you are a better person than me then.

 

I think we can agree that racism is wrong its just i don't see it as black and white (excuse the pun) as you do.

 

I'm not making any moral judgement about you mate, I don't even know you.

 

From my point of view no amount of deliberately hurtful discrimination based on someone's skin tone is acceptable, that's the only point I'm trying to make here. I'd say the same for someone's sexual preference or religion.

 

I'm not beyond making jokes about any of the above in the right company, and that includes a bit of borderline banter between mates of mine who would take offence if a stranger said it, but I would draw a line with someone who would take it the wrong way.

 

I'm not saying that to make out I'm a better person than anyone; I know my own flaws. I just don't think that's acceptable behaviour, and I think we all know it's not.

 

As to your original point of whether it makes someone a racist, well maybe we can disagree on that one, but as I said a few posts back if you're prepared to say those things then you should be prepared to wear the label.

Edited October 23, 2012 by zigackly

[Major Tom]

I think we can agree that racism is wrong its just i don't see it as black and white (excuse the pun).

 

The Suarez case will attest to that.

[zigackly]

The Suarez case will attest to that.

 

Suarez wasn't caught bang to rights saying something uneqivocally racist, and yet he gets a harsher sentence. Yes I'd say that was more complex, although "hypocritical", "corrupt" and "morally bankrupt" are words I'd prefer.

[Sandford]

I'm not making any moral judgement about you mate, I don't even know you.

 

From my point of view no amount of deliberately hurtful discrimination based on someone's skin tone is acceptable, that's the only point I'm trying to make here. I'd say the same for someone's sexual preference or religion.

 

I'm not beyond making jokes about any of the above in the right company, and that includes a bit of borderline banter between mates of mine who would take offence if a stranger said it, but I would draw a line with someone who would take it the wrong way.

 

I'm not saying that to make out I'm a better person than anyone; I know my own flaws. I just don't think that's acceptable behaviour, and I think we all know it's not.

 

As to your original point of whether it makes someone a racist, well maybe we can disagree on that one, but as I said a few posts back if you're prepared to say those things then you should be prepared to wear the label.

 

As usual i think the points we were making have been slightly, lost especially when you have the impression i was saying it was acceptable to hurl racist abuse - i do not.

 

Originally i was just trying to make a distinction that there is a difference (in my opinion) between using a racial slur and being a racist. Obviously this is where we disagree.

[zigackly]

As usual i think the points we were making have been slightly, lost especially when you have the impression i was saying it was acceptable to hurl racist abuse - i do not.

 

Originally i was just trying to make a distinction that there is a difference (in my opinion) between using a racial slur and being a racist. Obviously this is where we disagree.

 

Fair enough, and I was wrong to say you thought it was acceptable.

 

I'd put using a racial slur on the same scale as tar and feathers though, albeit far at the other end. I don't think most people would do it, so I think you have to have a different set of standards if you do. Perhaps I'm just projecting my own values there though. Bigotry is something I feel strongly about.

[Trumo]

Rio Ferdinand's idea of racial harmony might involve creating an 'us' and 'them' scenario.

 

Rio plans breakaway black players' union - ESPNFC

 

Rio plans breakaway black players' union

 

Rio Ferdinand is leading a movement to launch a breakaway black players' union to fight racism.

 

Reports said the Manchester United defender planned to set up the organisation, which could be called The Federation of Black Players, to tackle all forms of discrimination.

 

A first draft of a constitution has been written, and the idea is believed to have attracted strong support.

 

Ferdinand has neither confirmed nor denied the reports, although he tweeted enigmatically on Tuesday morning: "Don't believe all u read".

 

The news came as the Kick It Out campaign chief Lord Herman Ouseley told ESPN he felt the refusal of Ferdinand, his brother Anton and Reading striker Jason Roberts to wear Kick It Out T-shirts this weekend had come across as an attack on his FA-funded organisation.

 

The players refused to wear them because they said they felt the football authorities were not doing enough to combat racism.

 

Ferdinand defied his United manager Sir Alex Ferguson to make his protest. On Monday, Ouseley was quoted as saying that the gesture was futile and that he would not have told Manchester United "where to stick their shirt and their £150,000 a week".

 

He also said he had "no intention of speaking for black footballers who are very wealthy" and who "have to be organised and speak for themselves" - a remark Ferdinand considered to be a direct attack on him.

 

Ouseley told ESPN: "I support the right to protest, I support the players and I want what they want," he said. "But whether they wear the T-shirts or not is something for them and is between them and their clubs.

 

"The focus has been on those who have not worn the T-shirts when hundreds - thousands - of players have been wearing them. It comes across as an attack on Kick It Out, and that is unacceptable to me.

 

"If it's a protest against the football authorities and the need for them and the clubs to do more, then I can see where they are coming from.

 

"There is a second week of action coming up and I am going to Millwall, where the players plan to wear the T-shirts, where the club is determined to rid itself of its stigma of racism of the past - and that's how it should be.

 

"For me, it has been nothing short of a week of trying to establish why the T-shirt protest is happening rather than looking at the cause."

 

And he warned: "I am angry at the non-stop questioning of what Kick It Out is doing or not doing to resolve these problems when the problem-solving lies elsewhere.

 

"The situation we find ourselves in doesn't take us forward. We need to talk, we need to think about what happens next. We need to address the bigger issues, but instead we focus on the T-shirts."

 

He said what happened next "needed to be reflected on very carefully", adding that he had received "nasty emails from fans who think I am against whites and against Chelsea because of John Terry, when nothing could be further from the truth".

 

Wales and Aberdeen keeper Jason Brown has said black footballers could be driven towards setting up a breakaway anti-racism group if the football authorities failed to deal strongly enough with the problem of racism.

 

He told Sky Sports News: "I'm all for that. We don`t want to be rebels, but if they're not doing enough they're driving us to go down that road.

 

"I know four to five players who have met with Kick It Out and the PFA [Professional Footballers' Association] and gave them suggestions, but it seems they must have got lost because they have done nothing."

 

However, PFA chief Gordon Taylor said he believed it was best if his members stuck together, saying: "We have moved forward as much as we have done so far by being together.

 

"It might not be as quick as people would like but a breakaway group would only serve to weaken us and prevent us building bridges with the people who can affect change."

[Gym Beglin]

In all this debate, I've not once hear anything about Asian players, or lack thereof.

Racism is not solely about black players.

 

In fact, I think more than enough time and money has been spent on the black players in this league. I wish I could word that more carefully, but fuckit, I'm late.

[zigackly]

In all this debate, I've not once hear anything about Asian players, or lack thereof.

Racism is not solely about black players.

 

Of course it isn't, but it's obvious we're going to discuss it in light of the recent cases there have been. I don't think you're seriously implying anyone would treat it any differently if the abuse had been towards another ethnicity are you?

[piscinin]

Rio Ferdinand's idea of racial harmony might involve creating an 'us' and 'them' scenario.

 

Rio plans breakaway black players' union - ESPNFC

 

Where the 'us' is people prepared to take the FA to task; and the 'them' is people who owe their existence, in large part, to the FA and are not prepared to to take the FA to task.

 

Don't see a problem personally.

[silverlining]

So, who wants to be in Rio's cool new black gang?

 

Racism is wack, yo. We is commissioned some street warrior artists to design the new logo, and it is proper dench. There'll be a range of urban clothing to wear round your ends, and a mix album of teeth-achingly shit r&b-based hiphop for mongs all over the country to play out of their mobile devices on loudspeaker.

 

Together, bluds, we can *stab up* racism, innit.

[Manny]

Rio Ferdinand's idea of racial harmony might involve creating an 'us' and 'them' scenario.

 

Rio plans breakaway black players' union - ESPNFC

 

Fuck me sideways, he really does hold himself in high esteem doesn't he? Judaean People's Front. Remember this, Rio Luther King?

 

"The allegation is that the player acted in a way which was improper and/or bought the game into disrepute by making comments which included a reference to ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race."

[Trumo]

In all this debate, I've not once hear anything about Asian players, or lack thereof.

Racism is not solely about black players.

 

Is the crux of it for me. I can't help but think that some of these people speaking up in the media are only doing so because it is black players that have been involved. If it were Asians or Hispanics that had been the victims of alleged abuse, I'm not sure the likes of Rio Ferdinand or Jason Roberts would be quite so vocal. It's going back over 10 years now, but are their any articles where Rio Ferdinand - who was then a Leeds player - talks about the Bowyer/Woodgate incident when a Muslim student was attacked outside a nightclub?

 

In fact, I think more than enough time and money has been spent on the black players in this league. I wish I could word that more carefully, but fuckit, I'm late.

 

And then you slip back into normal mode.

 

Where the 'us' is people prepared to take the FA to task; and the 'them' is people who owe their existence, in large part, to the FA and are not prepared to to take the FA to task.

 

Don't see a problem personally.

 

I don't think it breaks along those lines at all. If Ferdinand has issues with how racism is being tackled in the game, and if he feels that groups like 'Kick It Out' are not listening or doing enough, then promoting a black-only group is not the way to go about trying to help tackle the problem.

 

So, who wants to be in Rio's cool new black gang?

 

Racism is wack, yo. We is commissioned some street warrior artists to design the new logo, and it is proper dench. There'll be a range of urban clothing to wear round your ends, and a mix album of teeth-achingly shit r&b-based hiphop for mongs all over the country to play out of their mobile devices on loudspeaker.

 

Together, bluds, we can *stab up* racism, innit.

 

The dickheads among the footballing community will jump on that bandwagon.

 

Fuck me sideways, he really does hold himself in high esteem doesn't he? Judaean People's Front. Remember this, Rio Luther King?

 

"The allegation is that the player acted in a way which was improper and/or bought the game into disrepute by making comments which included a reference to ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race."

 

That Rio Ferdinand has the memory of a sieve has been shown before.

[Faustus]

He has to be the biggest gobshite in the game.

 

Why the hell hasn't somebody pulled him up on the hypocrisy of his actions after the 'choc ice' retweet? Or, in fact, does he think he should have been banned for his actions?

 

I'll bet the daft twat doesn't even realise it would be fucking racist to set up a union where membership is granted based on an individual's skin colour.

[tenner]

Rio Ferdinand's idea of racial harmony might involve creating an 'us' and 'them' scenario.

 

Rio plans breakaway black players' union - ESPNFC

 

A bit racist that by Rio.

[Nightcat]

But Rio denied rumours that he's planning to create an association. More PR crap coming out from the hypocites of the Enlgish FA. They are the true racists.

 

4 games for the married London racist, who impregnated his team-mates fiance and paid half a million to get rid of her. Great role model. He's probably shagging the FA too.

The English FA is probably the most corrupt football institution in the world. I can't wait until the bubble bursts and all the shit comes out, about money, bias, corruption.

[Major Tom]

But Rio denied rumours that he's planning to create an association. More PR crap coming out from the hypocites of the Enlgish FA. They are the true racists.

 

4 games for the married London racist, who impregnated his team-mates fiance and paid half a million to get rid of her. Great role model. He's probably shagging the FA too.

The English FA is probably the most corrupt football institution in the world. I can't wait until the bubble bursts and all the shit comes out, about money, bias, corruption.

 

Are you not happy unless you are bitching and moaning about something? Though, I guess this makes a nice change, as it's normally something to do with LFC.

[King Gheedorah]

Fuck me sideways, he really does hold himself in high esteem doesn't he? Judaean People's Front. Remember this, Rio Luther King?

 

"The allegation is that the player acted in a way which was improper and/or bought the game into disrepute by making comments which included a reference to ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race."

 

I think he fancies himself more of a Rev. Jesse Jackson type. Ill-advised move.

[Trumo]

But Rio denied rumours that he's planning to create an association. More PR crap coming out from the hypocites of the Enlgish FA. They are the true racists.

 

You mean we've all been 'merked'?

[silverlining]

I think he fancies himself more of a Rev. Jesse Jackson type. Ill-advised move.

 

Hopefully more like Malcolm X.