Fuck off Benitez

[goatboy59]

Phil Neal? Oh, okay.

 

Given (a) we won anyway (b) Rafa's never been one for taking the blame even when he had to, do you have a quote from Rafa explaining the team formation that mentions this?

 

Because that's news to me.

[Lucky Pierre]

No. Unfortunately it's like a lot of football 'knowledge' - word of mouth.

[goatboy59]

Not having a pop mate.

 

I just don't see why Rafa would keep this a secret, especially as he took a fair bit of stick for dropping Didi in the first place.

 

My memory of Zico in 2005 is that he disgraced himself and the club by asking for money to be interviewed for a memorial article on Heysel. Whether he'd be 'in' enough to receive such privileged information is a matter of conjecture.

 

But this does sort of emphasise my point that some people will defend Rafa on anything.

[Coro]

It's commonly known that Didi took that penalty with a broken foot/toe.

 

It's been said that the injury happened in the build up to the game.

[zigackly]

All very interesting, but he had Biscan on the bench so he can't have been that worried about Didi.

[Coro]

All very interesting, but he had Biscan on the bench so he can't have been that worried about Didi.

 

I don't see how that discounts the suggestion of Hamann picking up the injury before the game.

[Lucky Pierre]

My memory of Zico in 2005 is that he disgraced himself and the club by asking for money to be interviewed for a memorial article on Heysel. Whether he'd be 'in' enough to receive such privileged information is a matter of conjecture.

He's still in at the club now, and he'd obviously have mates up there.

But this does sort of emphasise my point that some people will defend Rafa on anything.

True, but there are people who'll also criticise Rafa for absolutely anything. Some tool the other day used winning the cup in Istanbul as a stick to beat him with.

[goatboy59]

It's been said that the injury happened in the build up to the game.

 

Again, by whom? Not by Rafa, to the best of my knowledge.

 

Zigackly's got a good point here. We joke about Igor now, but he was colossal in Turin and there's no doubt Rafa would have trusted him for the same job Didi did ee dum Didi do *

 

But to change the tactics and the approach because of a broken toe to Hamann, I'm not buying it. It's rewriting history.

 

* Sorry, child of the 60's I'm afraid.

[zigackly]

I don't see how that discounts the suggestion of Hamann picking up the injury before the game.

 

I doesn't, but this whole discussion began in reference to Hamann coming on as a sub being a great tactical decision. I still think starting with Kewell with no-one attempting to disrupt Kaka was a tactical error, which fair enough he corrected at half time. If Didi's toe was broken before the match then it explains it somewhat, but he could have easily used Igor from the start in that role and who knows, we might have won in normal time. It's all ifs and buts and maybes, but I can't hail Didi's introduction as an act of tactical genius although it was clearly the right thing to do.

[Guest TK-421]

It was a brave decision to start Kewell but it backfired badly. Didi's introduction was little more than common sense really. The one thing Rafa did get right was shifting Gerrard to right back in extra time. I thought Rafa made mistakes in the final but was instrumental in guiding us through the knock-out rounds. He is the master of the two legged tie.

[goatboy59]

Some tool the other day used winning the cup in Istanbul as a stick to beat him with.

 

I'm intrigued. How did that one go?

[zigackly]

It was a brave decision to start Kewell but it backfired badly. Didi's introduction was little more than common sense really. The one thing Rafa did get right was shifting Gerrard to right back in extra time. I thought Rafa made mistakes in the final but was instrumental in guiding us through the knock-out rounds. He is the master of the two legged tie.

 

Not going to disagree with a word of that. I'm not trying to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[Lucky Pierre]

I'm intrigued. How did that one go?

For the life of me I can't remember. I've blocked it from memory.

[Coro]

I doesn't, but this whole discussion began in reference to Hamann coming on as a sub being a great tactical decision. I still think starting with Kewell with no-one attempting to disrupt Kaka was a tactical error, which fair enough he corrected at half time. If Didi's toe was broken before the match then it explains it somewhat, but he could have easily used Igor from the start in that role and who knows, we might have won in normal time. It's all ifs and buts and maybes, but I can't hail Didi's introduction as an act of tactical genius although it was clearly the right thing to do.

 

I think the idea was to surprise Milan and go at them early with a less cautious approach than probably they were expecting. I was just wondering if that change in approach was brought about by any possible injury Hamann may have suffered before the game.

 

The undoing to our approach that night was obviously giving away a silly free kick very early on in the game which Milan profited from.

 

They just picked us off on the counter attack after that and brilliantly so.

[Ted]

I have zero time for Benitez and I dislike him intensely: but even I'd never denegrate anything to do with Istanbul. I couldn't care less about tactical fuck ups; who started and who didn't start, none of that shit matters. It was a monumental achievement.

 

It was the greatest night of my life and one that'll probably never be bettered and for that I'll be eternally grateful to him.

[BexBissel]

Maybe Woo can shed some light on this?

Many were suprised when Didi was left on the bench for the Champions League Final in favour of Harry Kewell. Losing 3-0 to AC Milan at half time in Istanbul, with Kaká running riot, then came what many class as Hamann's finest hour. Coming on at half time for Steve Finnan, Didi produced a brilliant disciplined performance for the rest of the game, and managed to keep Kaká and co relatively quiet. His calming influence and experience was vital as the Reds performed a miraculous comeback from three goals down to pull it back to 3-3. After no more goals in extra time, Hamann picked up a broken toe during the game (in fact some rumours suggest he actually broke it the night before the game!), but still had the nerve to step up and cooly slot the first penalty, leading Liverpool to a famous victory.

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/e-i/80591-hamann-dietmar.html

[zigackly]

I think the idea was to surprise Milan and go at them early with a less cautious approach than probably they were expecting. I was just wondering if that change in approach was brought about by any possible injury Hamann may have suffered before the game.

 

Yeah, I alluded to that earlier but I think he made the decision after the semi with PSV when Milan were undone with width and ambition.

 

The undoing to our approach that night was obviously giving away a silly free kick very early on in the game which Milan profited from.

 

They just picked us off on the counter attack after that and brilliantly so.

 

Sure, but it was Kaka pulling the strings with no-one to stop him. That was always going to be a massive risk. He's paid to make those decisions, and he was able to correct it. It's not a massive gripe from me, I credit him hugely for pretty much everything in that whole run except for making a genius decision with Didi at half time in the final. Starting Kewell instead of shackling Kaka turned out to be a mistake.

[Coro]

Yeah, I alluded to that earlier but I think he made the decision after the semi with PSV when Milan were undone with width and ambition.

 

 

 

Sure, but it was Kaka pulling the strings with no-one to stop him. That was always going to be a massive risk. He's paid to make those decisions, and he was able to correct it. It's not a massive gripe from me, I credit him hugely for pretty much everything in that whole run except for making a genius decision with Didi at half time in the final. Starting Kewell instead of shackling Kaka turned out to be a mistake.

 

Maybe because us being 1 down and having to press more than we intended left more space and time for Kaka to pick us off at the back. I cant see Benitez overlooking a player like Kaka and allowing him to roam free but i could be wrong.

 

I think what people praise Rafa for is the fact that he went with 3 at the back and sacrificed a defender for Hamann.

[zigackly]

Hang on now, you can't have Hamann injured and not Finnan!

 

Kaka would have used that space any time it was unoccupied, he'd done it throughout the tournament. Like I said, all ifs buts and maybes, but the point is he did correct a mistake not make a genius sub.

 

Getting a bit bored with it now anyway.

[Coro]

Hang on now, you can't have Hamann injured and not Finnan!

 

 

Getting a bit bored with it now anyway.

 

Why not?

 

And bored of what?

[zigackly]

This.

[goatboy59]

Straight swap - Josemi for Finnan.

[Coro]

This.

 

What, me wondering if an injury to Hamann in the build up to the game influenced the managers thinking into changing his approach?

 

Sorry about that.

[zigackly]

What, me wondering if a possible injury to Hamann in the build up to the game influenced the managers thinking into changing his approach?

 

Sorry about that.

 

No offence here fella, but I've explained the reasons for my opinion, you've explained the reasons for yours, neither of us is looking like changing the others mind, and we're both speculating to a degree.

 

What's the point in carrying it on for another page? I don't dislike you or anything, but I think we've covered most of the ground now.

[Coro]

No offence here fella, but I've explained the reasons for my opinion, you've explained the reasons for yours, neither of us is looking like changing the others mind, and we're both speculating to a degree.

 

What's the point in carrying it on for another page? I don't dislike you or anything, but I think we've covered most of the ground now.

 

Er, i'm not trying to change anyone's mind or even influence anyone's thinking. Just asked a question or 2, not holding you to anything here, it's just an internet forum.

 

Had a bad day like?