Rafa`s transfers, because of the budget or the strategy/set up?

[Spanish_fan]

22, the number of attacking players brought in by Rafa since he started as manager in the summer of 2004.

 

15, the number of players shipped out again for various reasons.

 

7, the number of attacking players still at the club.

 

1, the number of attacking players brought in we can rely on for goals.

 

04/05:

In:

Djibril Cissé - Auxerre £14.0M

Antonio Nuñez - Real Madrid £3.0M*

Luis Garcia - Barcelona £6.0M

Fernando Morientes - Real Madrid £6.3M

05/06:

In:

Boudewijn Zenden - Middlesbrough, free

Peter Crouch - Southampton, £7M

Besian Idrizaj - LASK Linz, £200 000*

Paul Anderson - Hull

Robbie Fowler - Manchester C, free

06/07:

In:

Craig Bellamy - Blackburn, £6M

Mark Gonzalez - Albacete, £1M

Jermaine Pennant - Birmingham, £6,7M*

Dirk Kuyt - Feyenoord, £9M

Nabil El Zhar - St Etienne, unknown

07/08:

In:

Sebastian Leto, Lanus - £1.85M

Andriy Voronin, Bayer Leverkusen - free

Fernando Torres, Atletico Madrid - £20,2M

Ryan Babel, Ajax - £11.5M

Yossi Benayoun, West Ham - £5M

08/09:

In:

David N'Gog, Paris Saint-Germain - £1.5M

Robbie Keane, Tottenham - £19M

Albert Riera, Espanyol - £8M

 

Some of the signings Benitez has made in that department defy belief. Granted that he manages to get the best out of these type of players but their best is not good enough.

[Woo]

Their's a difference between not knowing and ignoring something because it doesn't fit in with what you believe.

 

Nobody else could have posted that so it would sound so ironic.

 

I know Alves was availible in the summer of 06/07 for £15m. And I do know that we didn't have the funds left to pay £15m.

[Woo]

How players improve once they leave us it's astonishing. Pongelle can't hold down a place at AM, Baros had to go to Turkey because he failed at every decent team he has been at and Cisse who failed miserably at a decent team in the french league currently has less goals than SG at a team like Sunderland who get time and space galore.

 

Those 3 strikers got us to 5th in the league BTW.

 

I wouldn't call Cissé's 37 goals in 78 appearances for Marseille 'failing miserably'. Infact I'd be happy with any of our strikers bar Torres, if they had that sort of scoring ratio.

 

And you could say the Djibril Cisse who has scored more than any of our strikers this season, but hey whatever suits you.

[Catch22]

Nobody else could have posted that so it would sound so ironic.

 

I know Alves was availible in the summer of 06/07 for £15m. And I do know that we didn't have the funds left to pay £15m.

 

 

To be fair, nobody knows how much Alves was actually available for.

 

He wasn't available for £12m & he wasn't for £24m a year later.

 

So i very much doubt Del Nido & Monchi would have sold him for £15m

[SpeedyG]

I wouldn't call Cissé's 37 goals in 78 appearances for Marseille 'failing miserably'. Infact I'd be happy with any of our strikers bar Torres, if they had that sort of scoring ratio.

 

And you could say the Djibril Cisse who has scored more than any of our strikers this season, but hey whatever suits you.

 

Failing miserably was a bit strong, but point is, like the others he's not at a top 4 team because he is not top 4 quality. He proved that week in week out when he was with us. The guy was so bad he couldn't even stay onside.

[Woo]

To be fair, nobody knows how much Alves was actually available for.

 

He wasn't available for £12m & he wasn't for £24m a year later.

 

So i very much doubt Del Nido & Monchi would have sold him for £15m

 

It was £15m. And let me just make it even bigger, and put it in bold, so everyone can see, and won't keep saying 'nobody knows'. People do know how much he was availible for. What you mean is that so many different figures were reported by lazy journalists in many different papers, that we don't know which is true. But when someone with reliable information says it's £15m, then I would go with the £15m.

 

£15m

 

We could have afforded him that summer, but because we chose to sign more squad players (considering we let Cissé go out on loan for a fee that was not even £1m, who was our highest scoring striker the season before that!) We were left a few million short in the end. :wallbutt:

[stringvest]

Does anyone know how many league goals Cisse has this year so far?

[Nick Leeson]

Can code 72 stop being anti Rafa please. I dont want him on my side.

[Code]

Failing miserably was a bit strong, but point is, like the others he's not at a top 4 team because he is not top 4 quality. He proved that week in week out when he was with us. The guy was so bad he couldn't even stay onside.

 

But at least he had the ability to get in behind the defense actually being offside, but also getting a lot of good chances and scoring some great goals.

[JK1980]

It was £15m. And let me just make it even bigger, and put it in bold, so everyone can see, and won't keep saying 'nobody knows'. People do know how much he was availible for. What you mean is that so many different figures were reported by lazy journalists in many different papers, that we don't know which is true. But when someone with reliable information says it's £15m, then I would go with the £15m.

 

£15m

 

We could have afforded him that summer, but because we chose to sign more squad players (considering we let Cissé go out on loan for a fee that was not even £1m, who was our highest scoring striker the season before that!) We were left a few million short in the end. :wallbutt:

 

So are you saying we'd have had to pay at least 18M for him?

[Woo]

Does anyone know how many league goals Cisse has this year so far?

 

9 league goals in 24 appearances.

[Woo]

So are you saying we'd have had to pay at least 18M for him?

 

Yes, that is quite clearly what I am saying. Finally, someone gets it!

[stringvest]

9 league goals in 24 appearances.

 

and which of our players have managed to stay onside and score more league goals than him this year?

[Nick Leeson]

Don't think it's fair to judge any of our strikers really as none of them have had decent service during la reign de la waiter. Oh wait, except for Kuyt; he's categorically proven he cant hit a banjo's arse with a barn door.

 

I did like Cisse though, although he was a bit raw. Also like to reiterate my point about not wanting Code72 on my side. can someone find him some pro-Rafa stats please?

[Jose Jones]

I don't see how anyone can argue for keeping Cisse. Sure he managed to find the net and could be effective at times, plus scored a great goal in the FA Cup final, but he really wasn't good enough. The fact that Kuyt, N'Gog, Voronin, etc, aren't good enough either shouldn't change that basic fact.

[stringvest]

I didn't want us to sign Cisse in the first place. I knew he smelt. But he was better than what we have now. Torres aside, our attackers are but mere borrowers in a legacy of giants.

[Woo]

and which of our players have managed to stay onside and score more league goals than him this year?

 

Clearly we can use Gerrard as a second striker so he can get into more goalscoring positions, no.

[Nick Leeson]

I've never said N'Gogbusters wasn't any good. When your strikers miss sitters, they need replacing. If they're quick enough, skillful enough and accurate enough the rest is down to coaching.

 

Crouch, Kuyt, Keane were not good enough. Baros was not as shit (I know, I watched Euro 2004!) as people like to make out he was, neither was Cisse. It just fitted 'the cause' to blame our lack of tooth at the time, and now this one to for some, to the attributes our strikers were missing, rather than the tactics of the man who sent them out there.

 

Rafa's a great defensive coach but he just doesn't seem to be able to make the right calls when it comes to creativity and attacking intent. Sorry but there you have it. I said. Oh and he's a tool who should shut his mouth. Yeah I said that too.

[Jose Jones]

I didn't want us to sign Cisse in the first place. I knew he smelt. But he was better than what we have now. Torres aside, our attackers are but mere borrowers in a legacy of giants.

 

Well that still doesn’t mean that we should have kept Cisse, though.

I know you dislike Kuyt with an holy passion Stringy, but the difference going from Cisse to Bellamy to Kuyt hasn’t made any real significant difference to the team, either in cost or quality.

The big errors have been Babel and Keane. 32 million quid of failed forward. Whether you think that’s entirely the player’s fault is another matter.

[stringvest]

I know you dislike Kuyt with an holy passion Stringy, but the difference going from Cisse to Bellamy to Kuyt hasn’t made any real significant difference to the team, either in cost or quality.

The big errors have been Babel and Keane. 32 million quid of failed forward. Whether you think that’s entirely the player’s fault is another matter.

 

I don't dislike Kuyt per se, for example when he's moved on I won't give a fuck about him. I intensely dislike him in the team though, because he represents the nadir of Liverpool attackers in the 35 years I've been watching us. Cisse was a lunatic with little awareness and without much in the way of finesse, but I'd much rather have him than Kuyt. He was a threat, and defenders would be occupied. Bellamy was also a lunatic, but again was miles better than Kuyt. Yet we're left with Kuyt as our main attacker should Torres be injured. No-one can tell me that situation is good for the club.

[Jose Jones]

I don't dislike Kuyt per se, for example when he's moved on I won't give a fuck about him. I intensely dislike him in the team though, because he represents the nadir of Liverpool attackers in the 35 years I've been watching us. Cisse was a lunatic with little awareness and without much in the way of finesse, but I'd much rather have him than Kuyt. He was a threat, and defenders would be occupied. Bellamy was also a lunatic, but again was miles better than Kuyt. Yet we're left with Kuyt as our main attacker should Torres be injured. No-one can tell me that situation is good for the club.

 

Well this could disintegrate into a Kuyt thread, and no-one wants that, so I'll just gently disagree that Bellamy or Cisse are or were significantly better than Kuyt. I think most people would agree with me on this as well.

 

However, you're correct at the dearth of attacking options we have. I’d say the 30 odd million we’ve spent on Babel and Keane without finding a top creative attacker Rafa was happy to use is the major error of his time at the club.

[Section_31]

I can't be arsed going through the thread, I just know he's bought a lot of shit players.

[Code]

I can't be arsed going through the thread, I just know he's bought a lot of shit players.

 

We have bought attacking players for about £130M during Rafa`s time here and only one really good one.

[Section_31]

It's his attitude to scouting (or not scouting) which freaks me out the most. He seems to buy players with little knowledge of how they actually play, and then just tries them out for a bit, and if they don't turn out the way he hopes he drops them and fucks them off.

 

You really can't treat people like that, it's not nice. Plus it's not good for the bank balance either.

[ToxtethTerror]

Well that still doesn’t mean that we should have kept Cisse, though.

I know you dislike Kuyt with an holy passion Stringy, but the difference going from Cisse to Bellamy to Kuyt hasn’t made any real significant difference to the team, either in cost or quality.

The big errors have been Babel and Keane. 32 million quid of failed forward. Whether you think that’s entirely the player’s fault is another matter.

 

How so mate? We sold Cisse for £6m and bought Kuyt for £10m. We went from 19 goals and 7 assists in Cisse's last season to 12 and 3 in Kuyt's first. Since then Kuyt has got worse with each season.

 

So I'd say we have got worse in cost and quality in attack. Rafa inherited Owen, Baros, Cisse, Pongolle - he probably has collectively worse than that. Okay he lost Owen right away but who did he get in? There have been many disasters in attack before and after Torres arrived - all costing loads.