Thiago Alcantara

[Barrington Womble]

19 minutes ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:

Your posts are often a good read Barry, and I reckon  you do know your football. But on the subject of Thiago you’ve for some reason resorted to pure trolling. I accept that you have a different opinion on him than me, which is fair enough, but your posts in this thread is just a waste of time.

I just think he's been fucking awful nearly all the time he's been here, an opinion I'm sure I'm allowed to hold. At first the cries were "he's just back from injury". Then "he can't play 6", he moves forward "he can't play 8". Then "the players around him aren't good enough, he was signed to play with hendo". And now he's played a couple of half decent games and he's being worshipped. The lad himself admits he's been shite and has struggled - even klopp alluded to it a couple of weeks ago. I've never said he's not a good footballer. But he's been shite and as big a disappointment of a signing as I can remember. There's been worse signings and worse players. But personally I've never been so disappointed as he's supposed to be world class and he's just looked a pretty ordinary talent. 

[aws]

The jury is still out for me but I'm veering strongly towards the view that he'll be found not guilty of being a flop. This has been a weird season and not really fair to judge anybody on it. 

[m0e]

1 hour ago, Barrington Womble said:

That Gini, Henderson and fabinho (plus the others who came in and out) midfield lost 4 games (2 of which were dead rubbers) across 2 seasons and amassed nearly 200 points and exceeded twice our best points tally in the history of the club. I reckon they did just fine against all types of opposition. So the idea they did largely fuck all is nonsense. 

You know I meant in an attacking sense, but that's okay.

 

I suppose Gini did score once against Sheffield United when his shot went straight through the keeper...

[Barrington Womble]

11 hours ago, m0e said:

You know I meant in an attacking sense, but that's okay.

 

I suppose Gini did score once against Sheffield United when his shot went straight through the keeper...

I didn't know you meant that. But I still don't agree with it. Good attacking football is about balance and we've had that in abundance from our midfield in the last 2 seasons before this. They've allowed other to play. And in an attacking sense the intensity of the press was our best creative feature. 

[m0e]

7 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

I didn't know you meant that. But I still don't agree with it. Good attacking football is about balance and we've had that in abundance from our midfield in the last 2 seasons before this. They've allowed other to play. And in an attacking sense the intensity of the press was our best creative feature. 

In that case, it seems you choose to ignore the impact of VVD and Matip /Gomez in that, and I choose not to.

 

Which is why I'm dismissive of your Thiago narrative.

 

Always happy to disagree with you, particularly because mostly I agree with you.

[Numero Veinticinco]

Yeah f we judged Mane this season, or Trent for much of the season, or Robbo…

 

He is top quality. We will see this next season. 

[Tony Moanero]

21 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

I just think he's been fucking awful nearly all the time he's been here, an opinion I'm sure I'm allowed to hold. At first the cries were "he's just back from injury". Then "he can't play 6", he moves forward "he can't play 8". Then "the players around him aren't good enough, he was signed to play with hendo". And now he's played a couple of half decent games and he's being worshipped. The lad himself admits he's been shite and has struggled - even klopp alluded to it a couple of weeks ago. I've never said he's not a good footballer. But he's been shite and as big a disappointment of a signing as I can remember. There's been worse signings and worse players. But personally I've never been so disappointed as he's supposed to be world class and he's just looked a pretty ordinary talent. 

Great post. Have a photo of a fella posing outside his petrol station in Santa Ana, California, circa 1954, as a reward.

 

[El Rojo]

I was definitely another who was doubting his suitability, but he's looked great over the last few games. 

 

He wouldn't be the first top class footballer who didn't fit in at a club for whatever reason, but the prospect of him playing a major role for us next season in front of a settled defence containing the world's best centre half looks a lot better now. 

[dockers_strike]

Some people are just so fucking negative all the fucking time about fucking anything. I wouldnt want to walk a mile in their shoes.

[VladimirIlyich]

11 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

Some people are just so fucking negative all the fucking time about fucking anything. I wouldnt want to walk a mile in their shoes.

It's because those shoes dont fit them properly.

[Scott_M]

28 minutes ago, El Rojo said:

I was definitely another who was doubting his suitability, but he's looked great over the last few games. 

 

He wouldn't be the first top class footballer who didn't fit in at a club for whatever reason, but the prospect of him playing a major role for us next season in front of a settled defence containing the world's best centre half looks a lot better now. 

 

Yep. 

 

He came in with no pre-season. Got COVID19 and then a bad injury that kept him out from October until the end of December. 

 

The players he's be bought to play alongside (Fabinho and Henderson) have been getting played in out of position or have been injured or both. 

 

Two of the players in front of him, have all been poor since he's come back in the side.

 

The whole side hasn't functioned well but flashes of his quality have been there. The last few games, I'm sure due to having Fabinho next to him, he has looked towards the player we signed. He 100% should have started both games against Real Madrid.

 

When we're not broken next season (hopefully!) we'll start to see the player who dominated the CL Final more often. 

[TheHowieLama]

1 hour ago, Tony Moanero said:

Great post. Have a photo of a fella posing outside his petrol station in Santa Ana, California, circa 1954, as a reward.

 

That is Bob Andres.

[Barrington Womble]

17 hours ago, m0e said:

In that case, it seems you choose to ignore the impact of VVD and Matip /Gomez in that, and I choose not to.

 

Which is why I'm dismissive of your Thiago narrative.

 

Always happy to disagree with you, particularly because mostly I agree with you.

Fair enough. I think for sure the defence and klopp playing fabinho or heneraon (or both) in defence had an impact. But klopp partly did that because he was trusting a world class talent to do his thing. For me he didn't - I've said it before but the narrative around him seems to be, if the rest of the team is in great shape, then he'll be marvelous. That for me is not a world class talent. That's an Adam Lallana. World class talents are the ones who raise the game of all those around them and not allow themselves to be dragged down to the level of those around him. Can he be a success here? Well sure, if the rest of the team is in perfect working order, it looks like he'll get on the ball a lot. But God help us if we pick up a couple of injuries and look to him as one of our senior and supposedly world class players to drag us through. 

[VladimirIlyich]

15 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

That is Bob Andres.

Who?

[El Rojo]

Does he play much for Spain these days?

[Captain Turdseye]

1 hour ago, VladimirIlyich said:

Who?

He’s a dealer. Surprised Tony posted it to be honest. What next? Curtis Warren outside The Grafton in 1991?

[m0e]

11 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

Fair enough. I think for sure the defence and klopp playing fabinho or heneraon (or both) in defence had an impact. But klopp partly did that because he was trusting a world class talent to do his thing. For me he didn't - I've said it before but the narrative around him seems to be, if the rest of the team is in great shape, then he'll be marvelous. That for me is not a world class talent. That's an Adam Lallana. World class talents are the ones who raise the game of all those around them and not allow themselves to be dragged down to the level of those around him. Can he be a success here? Well sure, if the rest of the team is in perfect working order, it looks like he'll get on the ball a lot. But God help us if we pick up a couple of injuries and look to him as one of our senior and supposedly world class players to drag us through. 

You've got to take into account a new system, new country, 3 months out with a knee injury, etc.

 

Lots of our "world class" players have suffered this season.

 

The full backs, Mane, Alisson...

[Code]

Another great display tonight.

[ZonkoVille77]

Has settled in over the last 6-7 games and is really offering much more. So much of that is down to having Fab beside him. He just looked like a luxury player for so long. He looked lost and looked frustrated. Maybe there is a good thing in store with him in there. Be interesting to see how it pans out with Hendo back, can see him further forward.

[aRdja]

13 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

Fair enough. I think for sure the defence and klopp playing fabinho or heneraon (or both) in defence had an impact. But klopp partly did that because he was trusting a world class talent to do his thing. For me he didn't - I've said it before but the narrative around him seems to be, if the rest of the team is in great shape, then he'll be marvelous. That for me is not a world class talent. That's an Adam Lallana. World class talents are the ones who raise the game of all those around them and not allow themselves to be dragged down to the level of those around him. Can he be a success here? Well sure, if the rest of the team is in perfect working order, it looks like he'll get on the ball a lot. But God help us if we pick up a couple of injuries and look to him as one of our senior and supposedly world class players to drag us through. 

To be fair to him he’s been carrying our midfield almost single-handledly over the past few games.

[Mook]

The jury is still out for me, he was ok at Old Trafford but Cavani kept coming back & nicking the ball off him while he was dicking about with it. Last two games have been much better but against crap teams with one eye on the beach.

 

Hopefully he's finding his feet a bit but personally, I wouldn't start him if everyone was fit.

[Barrington Womble]

13 hours ago, m0e said:

You've got to take into account a new system, new country, 3 months out with a knee injury, etc.

 

Lots of our "world class" players have suffered this season.

 

The full backs, Mane, Alisson...

Yeah, some of our better players haven't been at their absolute best, but I also think some of their poor form has been over played. The full backs especially. I think they have been mostly brilliant. They haven't always been the attacking force they can be, but they've Williams and others playing behind them. The only main player to me who's been massively off it has been Mane. 

12 hours ago, aRdja said:

To be fair to him he’s been carrying our midfield almost single-handledly over the past few games.

Well I would argue that is fabinho. The 2 games we stuck him back in defence and we don't win again. We're in a run of 7 from 9, I'm pretty sure fabinho has been midfield in the 7. He's the one making others raise their game. Dictating the shape of the midfield. Finding the correct space for the midfield between defence and attack. 

[Lario]

11 hours ago, Mook said:

The jury is still out for me, he was ok at Old Trafford but Cavani kept coming back & nicking the ball off him while he was dicking about with it. Last two games have been much better but against crap teams with one eye on the beach.

 

Hopefully he's finding his feet a bit but personally, I wouldn't start him if everyone was fit.

"Kept"?

 

How many times did it happen?

And did it really nulify all the other good stuff he did?

[aRdja]

25 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Well I would argue that is fabinho. The 2 games we stuck him back in defence and we don't win again. We're in a run of 7 from 9, I'm pretty sure fabinho has been midfield in the 7. He's the one making others raise their game. Dictating the shape of the midfield. Finding the correct space for the midfield between defence and attack. 

You could but that’d be wrong IMO. Fabinho was truly awful last night for example and wasn’t that much better against West Brom either.

[KevieG]

Those little shimmies are a thing of beauty.