Transgender stuff - what's going on?

[polymerpunkah]

On 03/03/2024 at 11:55, TheHowieLama said:

You can't close the pubic triangle.

Strongest shape in nature, so they say.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Went to that An Evening With The Fast Show thing at the Phil on Easter Monday. 
 

They did bits that were them just sitting down and talking about their careers and how it all led up to The Fast Show being written. 
 

They mentioned how they’d done some early writing with the co-writers of Father Ted - Graham Linehan and Arthur Mathews - at which point Paul Whitehouse interjected with “or, as we call them nowadays, Arthur. Just Arthur,” which the crowd seemed to find quite funny. 

[Bruce Spanner]

Just taken the kids to see a transvestite sing silly songs whilst looking fabulous.

 

I don’t think they’re damaged yet, will keep you updated.

[Rico1304]

Cass report is out today.  
 

TLDR: I was right.  
 

[Bjornebye]

Rico in the building ! 

[Pidge]

The overview is not too long, people can read about the much needed (evidenced by the demand) expansion and improvement of treatment and service provision for themselves.

 

Rico has been a proven advocate for the provision of care to transgender people and does not have a track record of portraying them as liars, fantasists and predators at all. Internet points to the gasman. How the new car going? What range do you get?

 

https://cass.independent-review.uk/home/publications/final-report/

 

Will have a read of the full report later, looking forward to seeing what actual evidence says for a change.

[Arniepie]

 dont normally comment on this subject, but I find it a bit odd why all these middle age men are utterly obsessed, because a person they dont know has decided to change gender, and it doesnt affect them in the slightest.. 

[TheHowieLama]

39 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Just taken the kids to see a transvestite sing silly songs whilst looking fabulous.

 

I don’t think they’re damaged yet, will keep you updated.

 

Take your time man, Rome wasn;t built in a day.

[TheHowieLama]

1 minute ago, Arniepie said:

 dont normally comment on this subject, but I find it a bit odd why all these middle age men are utterly obsessed, because a person they dont know has decided to change gender, and it doesnt affect them in the slightest.. 

 

You ever been in a women's prison?

 

No, didn't think so.

[Arniepie]

8 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

You ever been in a women's prison?

 

No, didn't think so.

not recently like

[Paulie Dangerously]

Just reading over the findings and recommendations. The below stands out as a common sense. 

 

The rationale for early puberty suppression remains unclear, with weak evidence regarding the impact on gender dysphoria, mental or psychosocial health. The effect on cognitive and psychosexual development remains unknown.

 

The use of masculinising / feminising hormones in those under the age of 18 also presents many unknowns, despite their longstanding use in the adult transgender population. The lack of long-term follow-up data on those commencing treatment at an earlier age means we have inadequate information about the range of outcomes for this group.

 

Clinicians are unable to determine with any certainty which children and young people will go on to have an enduring trans identity.

 

For most young people, a medical pathway will not be the best way to manage their gender-related distress. For those young people for whom a medical pathway is clinically indicated, it is not enough to provide this without also addressing wider mental health and/or psychosocially challenging problems.

 

Children/ young people referred to NHS gender services must receive a holistic assessment of their needs to inform an individualised care plan. This should include screening for neurodevelopmental conditions, including autism spectrum disorder, and a mental health assessment.

Standard evidence based psychological and psychopharmacological treatment approaches should be used to support the management of the associated distress from gender incongruence and cooccurring conditions, including support for parents/carers and siblings as appropriate.

 

Obviously I've just cherry picked these before anyone accuses me of doing it. Full overviews can be found here. https://cass.independent-review.uk/home/publications/final-report/

 

This bit stood out as the prime reason people can't have a sensible debate about it though 

 

• The strengths and weaknesses of the evidence base on the care of children and young people are often misrepresented and overstated, both in scientific publications and societal debate.

 

Meaning that sadly, 

 

The controversy surrounding the use of medical treatments has taken focus away from what the individualised care and treatment is intended to achieve for individuals seeking support from NHS gender services. 

[Pidge]

Interesting passage from the foreword to the full report that I think echoes Paulie's point quite well:

 

"As well as hearing from those with lived experience, I have spoken to a very wide range of clinicians and academics. Clinicians who have spent many years working in gender clinics have drawn very different conclusions from their clinical experience about the best way to support young people with gender-related distress. Some feel strongly that a majority of those presenting to gender services will go on to have a long-term trans identity and should be supported to access a medical pathway at an early stage. Others feel that we are medicalising children and young people whose multiple other difficulties are manifesting through gender confusion and gender-related distress.

 

One thing unites all these people; they all believe passionately in what they have told me, and those with either parental or clinical responsibility for children and young people are trying their very best to do what they feel is the right thing to support them.

 

Despite the best intentions of everyone with a stake in this complex issue, the toxicity of the debate is exceptional. I have faced criticism for engaging with groups and individuals who take a social justice approach and advocate for gender affirmation, and have equally been criticised for involving groups and individuals who urge more caution. The knowledge and expertise of experienced clinicians who have reached different conclusions about the best approach to care are sometimes dismissed and invalidated."

[TheHowieLama]

How does this part sound when read slowly:

 

Children/ young people referred to NHS gender services must receive a holistic assessment of their needs to inform an individualised care plan. This should include screening for neurodevelopmental conditions, including autism spectrum disorder, and a mental health assessment.

 

 

[Pidge]

It sounds like a further issue as, if you think gender services are inadequate, wait until you hear about the autism assessment waiting list...

[Rico1304]

28 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

 dont normally comment on this subject, but I find it a bit odd why all these middle age men are utterly obsessed, because a person they dont know has decided to change gender, and it doesnt affect them in the slightest.. 

 

I don’t think anyone on here is likely to be bombed in Palestine but…

[Arniepie]

3 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

 

I don’t think anyone on here is likely to be bombed in Palestine but…

i dont think anyone on here dictates life choices,made by the average palestinian

[Rico1304]

4 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

i dont think anyone on here dictates life choices,made by the average palestinian

 Children aren’t capable of making life choices. Particularly when they are given no or incorrect data.  It’s a medical scandal, but I can see why you wouldn’t think giving kids mastectomies, risking cancer, sterilisation, slowing brain development and putting them on a pathway to a lifetime of drugs isn’t important.  Oh, hold on…

[Champ]

15 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

How does this part sound when read slowly:

 

Children/ young people referred to NHS gender services must receive a holistic assessment of their needs to inform an individualised care plan. This should include screening for neurodevelopmental conditions, including autism spectrum disorder, and a mental health assessment.

 

 

I’m not sure what you’re getting at. Tell me what you’re thinking because nothing’s jumping out at me

[TheHowieLama]

10 minutes ago, Champ said:

I’m not sure what you’re getting at. Tell me what you’re thinking because nothing’s jumping out at me

 

Seems to imply an underlying mental issue in these cases don't you think? 

[Pidge]

4 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

Seems to imply an underlying mental issue in these cases don't you think? 

 

Oh, not sure about that. The report, just in terminology distinguishes between usage of gender incongruence and dysphoria as avoiding the perception of being perceived as purely a mental illness.

 

I think it's included as much about parts of holistic assessment that are often missed, or done poorly. Haven't got to that bit of the report though, even on a scan through.

[Rico1304]

20 minutes ago, Champ said:

I’m not sure what you’re getting at. Tell me what you’re thinking because nothing’s jumping out at me

kids were rushed to blockers and social transition without exploring other reasons for dysphoria. The kids were all massively over represented in autism, other mental health issues and even sexual abuse. 

[Champ]

5 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

Seems to imply an underlying mental issue in these cases don't you think? 

There is increasing evidence of young people presenting to services with gender identity issues being assessed as having autistic spectrum disorder conditions but everyone in the field is/should be learning and one does not exclude the other and not everyone presenting with gender identity issues will be assessed to have mental health disorders or conditions

[AngryOfTuebrook]

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/c7f4e6ba-607b-4a9b-8b7b-6c38c272934e

 

[Paulie Dangerously]

39 minutes ago, Pidge said:

It sounds like a further issue as, if you think gender services are inadequate, wait until you hear about the autism assessment waiting list...

 

80 weeks in Sefton last I heard 

 

 

[Champ]

Just now, Paulie Dangerously said:

 

80 weeks in Sefton last I heard 

 

 

Services are absolutely overwhelmed