EXCLUSIVE: Gunners Target Alonso

[Catch22]

the point is though Catch 22 often says "well look, their wage bill is bigger!!" as if their higher wage bill gives them a competitive advantage over Liverpool, all the players the Mancs are buying like Carrick and Hargreaves have turned down Liverpool because we resolutely refuse to pay them what Manchester United are offering, so all these amazing players end up at Manchester United on high wages and therefore, they maintain their edge.

 

it's bollocks because we pay top wages, maybe overall less than Manchester United but no player has turned us down and gone to United (or Chelsea) because of wages, we can and do have world class players playing for us comparable to our rivals

 

So you are saying a higher wage bill doesn't give them a competitive advantage?

It is the #1 predictor of a club's finishing League position at the start of the season.

 

Perhaps a lower wage bill gives a competitive advantage then & we can look forward to Hull & Stoke battling it out for the title next season?

[coop]

When we signed Torres for £18 million many people on here were saying it was too much for an unproven player who had never scored 20 league goals for his club.

 

When we signed Mascherano again he couldnt get a game for West Ham and by many was considered a risky by Rafa.

 

If we were to sell Gerrard he would command a huge fee with many clubs lining bids of £35 million +.

 

I rate Keane highly and although he is not of the calibre of Gerrard and Torres not many are and certainly not ones with Premiership experience who can slot straight into the team.

[t1971]

We paid around 6 million for Benayoun.

 

true. We let Garcia go simply because he wanted to return to Spain. We had to pay out more than we got for him to replace him with Benny.

[rebel23]

Mancs spending is their business & unlike the Chavs they have earnt it.

 

However we are in competition with them.

You brought up that we have outspent them which we haven't, especially once wages are included (as Voronin/Kewell shows you can't look at one & not the other).

Our footballing budget is 3rd/4th & that is not in dispute.

 

I think your 2nd point though is very relevant as it shows (once again) that the 'Sky view' that Rafa has concentrated too hard on squad players at the expense of the 1st team is actually completely the opposite of what has actually occured.

 

We match them on top players' wages but they spend £15m per season more than us in total.

Therefore logically they must be spending more on squad players' wages.

 

The gap between Mancs/Chavs & us/Arse is that they have much better squad players which has massive benfits over the course of a season.

 

Indeed if you were to wage a magic wand to increase our chances of winning the League it is improving the squad not the team which would have most immediate benefit.

Unfortunately as I doubt that Redknapp,Merson etc can actually read there is little chance of this information filtering thru to them.

 

the mancs are spending £15m more on wages per year so this gives them a huge competitive advantage against us?

 

I don't believe it for a second.

 

so Liverpool are paying paltry wages and therefore cannot attract world class players like Torres, Mascherano, Reina, etc?

 

we cannot attract those massively important squad players which we have so many of including some very good ones like Yossi, Lucas etc

 

so because of this fact, we should forget about challenging for the league, it's totally impossible even with comparable world class players and a strong squad because we don't PAY them enough!

 

come on Catch 22, this is bullshit and you know it.

[Red Nick]

When we signed Torres for £18 million many people on here were saying it was too much for an unproven player who had never scored 20 league goals for his club.

 

When we signed Mascherano again he couldnt get a game for West Ham and by many was considered a risky by Rafa.

 

If we were to sell Gerrard he would command a huge fee with many clubs lining bids of £35 million +.

 

I rate Keane highly and although he is not of the calibre of Gerrard and Torres not many are and certainly not ones with Premiership experience who can slot straight into the team.

 

Torres always had the Talent and it was unfullfilled hence the concern of the signing but you always knew if he could reaslise the talent he was gonna be a fantastic player. Mascher was always quality you could see that in his displays for Argentina however Keane and Barry are in their prime and not suddlenly going to realise unfullfilled talent.

 

So I presume we agree that Keane isnt in the class of the 3 world class players we have.

[Catch22]

the mancs are spending £15m more on wages per year so this gives them a huge competitive advantage against us?

 

I don't believe it for a second.

 

so Liverpool are paying paltry wages and therefore cannot attract world class players like Torres, Mascherano, Reina, etc?

 

we cannot attract those massively important squad players which we have so many of including some very good ones like Yossi, Lucas etc

 

so because of this fact, we should forget about challenging for the league, it's totally impossible even with comparable world class players and a strong squad because don't PAY them enough!

 

come on Catch 22, this is bullshit and you know it.

 

 

BBC NEWS | Business | 'Record' Premier League wage bill

Mancs £92.3m, us £77.6m

 

This is 'approx £15m per season' so it is not factually bullshit.

 

Given that we match the top wages we must be spending less on squad players.

If you spend less on an employee, you generally get worse performance.

 

On those gaps we will struggle to compete as our injuries/suspensions/loss of form/rest lead to a much inferior player coming in than for the Chavs/mancs.

 

Is it impossible? No Do they have a significant adavantgae? Yes, just as we do over the other 16 teams in the League who have very little chance of finishing above us.

[coop]

Torres always had the Talent and it was unfullfilled hence the concern of the signing but you always knew if he could reaslise the talent he was gonna be a fantastic player. Mascher was always quality you could see that in his displays for Argentina however Keane and Barry are in their prime and not suddlenly going to realise unfullfilled talent.

 

So I presume we agree that Keane isnt in the class of the 3 world class players we have.

 

I dont think Keane is in the class of Gerrard and Torres but name me another player with Premiership experience of the class of the two mentioned Liverpool players who is available this summer.

 

I can remember many moaning when we signed Torres as they would prefer us to spend the extra cash on Eto'o but i trusted Rafa's judgement on that and i trust his judgement on Keane, a player who i think will be superb for us this season.

[dennis tooth]

true. We let Garcia go simply because he wanted to return to Spain. We had to pay out more than we got for him to replace him with Benny.

 

No, that's completely wrong.

I don't remember anything about him being sick of living here?

Luis was a makeweight in the Torres deal and was rated at significantly higher amount in the deal than £6m I know that for sure.

If you rate Luis at £6m or less you want you head testing, or leccy on yer nads or something.

[Red Spartan]

Torres always had the Talent and it was unfullfilled hence the concern of the signing but you always knew if he could reaslise the talent he was gonna be a fantastic player. Mascher was always quality you could see that in his displays for Argentina however Keane and Barry are in their prime and not suddlenly going to realise unfullfilled talent.

 

So I presume we agree that Keane isnt in the class of the 3 world class players we have.

 

Maybe not but at least he is a proven goalscorer in the PL unlike Villa who would be a bigger gamble.

[Stu Monty]

1 Cech

2 Ivanovic

3 A Cole

5 Essien

6 Carvalho

7 Shevchenko

8 Lampard

10 J Cole

11 Drogba

12 Obi

13 Ballack

14 Pizarro

15 Malouda

18 Bridge

20 Deco

20 Ferreira

21 Kalou

22 Ben-Haim

23 Cudicini

24 Wright-Phillips

26 Terry

30 Taylor

33 Alex

35 Belletti

39 Anelka

40 Hilario

42 Sawyer

44 Mancienne

48 Woods

51 Hutchinson

Di Santo

Cork

Bosingwa

 

 

Chelsea's tiny little squad.

[Red Nick]

Maybe not but at least he is a proven goalscorer in the PL unlike Villa who would be a bigger gamble.

 

I always wondered why we never signed Diego Marradonna or Batistuta

[dennis tooth]

Torres always had the Talent and it was unfullfilled hence the concern of the signing but you always knew if he could reaslise the talent he was gonna be a fantastic player. Mascher was always quality you could see that in his displays for Argentina however Keane and Barry are in their prime and not suddlenly going to realise unfullfilled talent.

 

So I presume we agree that Keane isnt in the class of the 3 world class players we have.

 

I see you conveniently left Crouch out to support your arguments, I bet you don't try to explain that one though. What about Arbeloa? Aurelio? I could go on.

[Red Nick]

I dont think Keane is in the class of Gerrard and Torres but name me another player with Premiership experience of the class of the two mentioned Liverpool players who is available this summer.

 

I can remember many moaning when we signed Torres as they would prefer us to spend the extra cash on Eto'o but i trusted Rafa's judgement on that and i trust his judgement on Keane, a player who i think will be superb for us this season.

 

I respect your point of view are your right to have your point of view, I think its totally wrong but I can understand your reasoning. Personally this premiership experience thing is horseshit, on the same basis we wouldnt have bought Torres.

 

We will have to agree to disagree my view is we should have bought one person in the Torres or Gerrard mould and Villa or Xavi would have been it.

 

Just to add Keane is better than we already have and Barry is not IMO

[Stu Monty]

Xavi?

 

I give up.

[Red Spartan]

I always wondered why we never signed Diego Marradonna or Batistuta

 

The root of Benitez thinkings is that he does not have the time to gradually introduce foreign players in order to produce a title challange this year.

 

The problem with that is that you trade talent for proven experience. Gonzales had great potential but could not hack it in the big league and no matter how much talent you have if you cannot play in a strong league then whats the point?

 

Villa could turn out to be excactly the same, albeit Torres being the exception to that rule.

[shanks59]

1 Cech

2 Ivanovic

3 A Cole

5 Essien

6 Carvalho

7 Shevchenko

8 Lampard

10 J Cole

11 Drogba

12 Obi

13 Ballack

14 Pizarro

15 Malouda

18 Bridge

20 Deco

20 Ferreira

21 Kalou

22 Ben-Haim

23 Cudicini

24 Wright-Phillips

26 Terry

30 Taylor

33 Alex

35 Belletti

39 Anelka

40 Hilario

42 Sawyer

44 Mancienne

48 Woods

51 Hutchinson

Di Santo

Cork

Bosingwa

 

 

Chelsea's tiny little squad.

 

That is fuckin scary :whistle:

[Torvald Utne]

1 Cech

2 Ivanovic

3 A Cole

5 Essien

6 Carvalho

7 Shevchenko

8 Lampard

10 J Cole

11 Drogba

12 Obi

13 Ballack

14 Pizarro

15 Malouda

18 Bridge

20 Deco

20 Ferreira

21 Kalou

22 Ben-Haim

23 Cudicini

24 Wright-Phillips

26 Terry

30 Taylor

33 Alex

35 Belletti

39 Anelka

40 Hilario

42 Sawyer

44 Mancienne

48 Woods

51 Hutchinson

Di Santo

Cork

Bosingwa

 

 

Chelsea's tiny little squad.

 

any advance on 8 midfielders?

[Xabi D]

The root of Benitez thinkings is that he does not have the time to gradually introduce foreign players in order to produce a title challange this year.

 

The problem with that is that you trade talent for proven experience. Gonzales had great potential but could not hack it in the big league and no matter how much talent you have if you cannot play in a strong league then whats the point?

 

Villa could turn out to be excactly the same, albeit Torres being the exception to that rule.

 

If foreigners find it so hard to hack the premiership how come there are so many in it?

 

People used this same crappy reasoning when we signed Pennant over Alves yet 2 years on would you say Pennant has settled here?

[Ged B]

If foreigners find it so hard to hack the premiership how come there are so many in it?

 

People used this same crappy reasoning when we signed Pennant over Alves yet 2 years on would you say Pennant has settled here?

 

Ey? I don't remember anybody using that as a reason to why we signed Pennant instead of Alves. I think everybody with a brain cell knew it was the small matter of about 15 million pound price difference between the two players that swung the deal.

[Fugitive]

That Chelsea squad will be full of unhappy bastards come November.

[Red Spartan]

If foreigners find it so hard to hack the premiership how come there are so many in it?

 

People used this same crappy reasoning when we signed Pennant over Alves yet 2 years on would you say Pennant has settled here?

 

Now now, you are comparing a second class player with proven talent. When you compare Villa to Keane (both exceptional players) the difference between them is PL experience, one has bag loads of it and the other one does not.

 

Talent or not if you go into something unknown then you must adapt to it and learn it. Ronaldo did not have the best of first season but look at him now.

 

Benitez doings is a reflection of what the fans want and thats the title. Whilst brining in the likes of Villa and Silva will pay off in the long run, Benitez has to gamble on wherever they will make an impact now or 2 years from now. The fans are getting impatient and sadly cannot wait another 2 years for a title challange. So instead of buying quality players he goes for a quality PL players.

 

Its unfair to use Pennant as he was never as the same standard as Keane or Barry.

[coop]

I respect your point of view are your right to have your point of view, I think its totally wrong but I can understand your reasoning. Personally this premiership experience thing is horseshit, on the same basis we wouldnt have bought Torres.

 

We will have to agree to disagree my view is we should have bought one person in the Torres or Gerrard mould and Villa or Xavi would have been it.

 

Just to add Keane is better than we already have and Barry is not IMO

 

Its easy to think we can just click our fingers and sign Villa but at the moment he is still at Valencia and who is to say the owners would agree to pay £30 million for a player and that the player would sign for us and not stay in Spain for Madrid.

[t1971]

No, that's completely wrong.

I don't remember anything about him being sick of living here?

Luis was a makeweight in the Torres deal and was rated at significantly higher amount in the deal than £6m I know that for sure.

If you rate Luis at £6m or less you want you head testing, or leccy on yer nads or something.

 

Luis did want to return to Spain.

[Red Spartan]

Its easy to think we can just click our fingers and sign Villa but at the moment he is still at Valencia and who is to say the owners would agree to pay £30 million for a player and that the player would sign for us and not stay in Spain for Madrid.

 

....and personally I would go for Keane who will cost 10million less.

[Xabi D]

Now now, you are comparing a second class player with proven talent. When you compare Villa to Keane (both exceptional players) the difference between them is PL experience, one has bag loads of it and the other one does not.

 

Talent or not if you go into something unknown then you must adapt to it and learn it. Ronaldo did not have the best of first season but look at him now.

 

Benitez doings is a reflection of what the fans want and thats the title. Whilst brining in the likes of Villa and Silva will pay off in the long run, Benitez has to gamble on wherever they will make an impact now or 2 years from now. The fans are getting impatient and sadly cannot wait another 2 years for a title challange. So instead of buying quality players he goes for a quality PL players.

 

Its unfair to use Pennant as he was never as the same standard as Keane or Barry.

 

 

No but you said Rafa was right to buy Keane over Villa because he will settle quicker and is used to the premiership etc. However i find that to be complete bollocks just because they come from the premiership it doesn't mean they'll settle straight away, Pennant came here 2 years ago and still hasn't settled and a similar thing happened to Bellamy when he was here.

 

I just think its too simplistic to say a premiership player will settle straight away and should be the reason you sign one over a more talented foreign player. The quality of the player should always be of the most importance not what league he's currently playing in.