Who exactly has Rafa 'lost'

[Brownie]

It's entirely different. Firstly, Rafa had the balls to front the press in a press conference. What's the definition of a snide? Secondly, whinging about being played does not equate to lying and saddling the club with debt to the point where it could cripple it and send it toward bankruptcy. It's a moot point.

 

I'm not talking about 'the press conference'. I'm talking about the whinging in the media after Athens.

[theRedHorse]

Who sacks the manager?!

 

The Fans.

[theRedHorse]

I'm not talking about 'the press conference'. I'm talking about the whinging in the media after Athens.

 

Ridiculous.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Why can't a player expect to play in his favourite position? Serious question? Why does he have to suffer due to the limitations of his club to buy players in other positions?

 

Who is it about, Liverpool FC or Steven Gerrard?

 

Brownie I take what your saying but I have felt that for a long time. He loves the adulation he gets from the press especially the whole Gerrard in the middle fiasco. He is "apparently" he is going to Cascombe to use his allies against the manager.

 

If he didn't feel he was untouchable why act the way he does when things don't go his way.

 

Just putting it out there mate as Rafa seems to be taking all the flack for the team, but what flack is our next level of authority taking, none whatsoever and I find his lack of support for the manager publicly disrespectful. Behind closed doors they have a chance to get it sorted, once that rumour is out in the public domain it has no chance of being resolved, I don't think Rafa and Gerrard trust each other. And if Rafa goes then Gerrard has won again, like he did with Ged. That is why he will feel he is untouchable in my eyes.

[Dirk]

I'm not talking about 'the press conference'. I'm talking about the whinging in the media after Athens.

 

With direct quotes, he had the balls to put his head on the line. He didn't do it snidely. It's totally different and you know it. They had lied to get control of the club, Rafa spotted it early doors. If we were winning and they were saying it - Gerrard and Carra - what would your opinion of it be then? Gerrard has been whinging about this for a long, long time and if you think he tries his best every game you are deluded. I've been to games and he's been walking around the pitch. Granted he does try hard sometimes but not all the time, that's what makes it so fucking frustrating, it's like he turns it on and off when he wants.

[Unrighteous]

It's better for LFC for Steven Gerrard to play on the right flank. It's better for Steven Gerrard to play with the most skillful players in our squad.

 

It's really win fucking win if the little baby would consider it...

[PaulMcC]

I dont know to be honest! He doesnt say there is an atmosphere and I dont think there is any need to over analyse everything he has said - hes not a politician who has sat down preparing a speech.

 

But on the other hand if you asked me were carra and gerrard begginning to have doubts over benitez that I would imagine yes. Footballers are like fans in that they are fickle and if were not winning they want things changing.

 

I dont know gerrard personally but I would imagine if you sat and spoke to him he would probably say that, we need a top wide player, crouch (or someone who can score goals) playing with torres and to keep the team more stable - pretty much what most of us are saying.

In his book his criticisms of Houllier at the end were pretty much what we were all saying.

 

I dont like this merry go round of managers but I would be surprised if benitez isnt gone in the summer

 

Rafa knows that too.

[TommyW]

Gerrard doesnt actually play on the right all that much anymore... or am I the only one to notice that?

[theRedHorse]

Gerrard doesnt actually play on the right all that much anymore... or am I the only one to notice that?

 

Thats the point. I think.

[drewy]

Gerrard and Carra aren't happy with Rafa's methods so they go whinging to the press (allegedly).

 

How is that different to Rafa not liking the methods of the owners and doing exactly the same thing? It's exactly the same premise, yet the players are snides and Rafa is blamless.

 

It could be argued that Rafa is looking out for the club whilst the other two are just being snidey cunts looking out for number 1.

[Moo]

He signed Nunez, pennant, benayoun, gonzales, off the top of my head. They are all wide players and none of them good enough. Instead of penny pinching over a million why didnt we sign alves?

The whole point is that the players who he has signed are not good enough.

 

In regard to gerrard being a wide player - since when? Why should we play the best or at least one of the best centre mids in the world on the right wing?

 

I can understand temporarily if our wide players are that poor but not permanently. He isnt going to fly past people and obviously he would be a success because he is such a good player but for a lad who has trained and played as a centre mid all his life to play him permanently on the right wing would just smack of fuckin desperation.

 

I think it's pretty clear it wasn't penny pinching over a million. It probably had very little to do with the money. Why didn't Chelsea sign Alves?

 

As for Gerrard's position and which one is best, that's a matter of opinion.

He would not play as a traditional right 'winger', in fact there are few of those around in modern football.

He would play, as he did the year before last when he won all those awards and scored all those goals, as a type of roaming inside right. Capable of everything, running with the ball, shooting, getting crosses in.

Similar to Ronaldo for United only Gerrard would play more as a midfielder than forward, and would do it better than Ronaldo.

[Brownie]

With direct quotes, he had the balls to put his head on the line. He didn't do it snidely. It's totally different and you know it. They had lied to get control of the club, Rafa spotted it early doors. If we were winning and they were saying it - Gerrard and Carra - what would your opinion of it be then? Gerrard has been whinging about this for a long, long time and if you think he tries his best every game you are deluded. I've been to games and he's been walking around the pitch. Granted he does try hard sometimes but not all the time, that's what makes it so fucking frustrating, it's like he turns it on and off when he wants.

 

So you want Gerrard and Carra to actually do a press conference criticising the manager? They can't do that. The only way they can express their frustrations is to tell friends etc and eventually it's bound to get out.

 

They're not being snides, it's their opinion. It's not like they're trying to undermine Rafa - they still go out there and perform but they're affected by various things. A lack of faith takes 5% away from your performance in a subconscious sense IMO and they are also frustarted so that's bound to affect them.

 

Rafa is always giving the press information off the record as well by the way.

[Brownie]

It could be argued that Rafa is looking out for the club whilst the other two are just being snidey cunts looking out for number 1.

 

They want to win the league. How is that not looking out for the club?!

[theRedHorse]

They want to win the league. How is that not looking out for the club?!

 

You're quite clearly clutching at straws mate.

 

Surely you can see that?

[philyhamann]

If either Carragher or Gerrard has this kind of sway, they must be sold. All there is to it, they did it under Houllier too.

[Dirk]

So you want Gerrard and Carra to actually do a press conference criticising the manager? They can't do that. The only way they can express their frustrations is to tell friends etc and eventually it's bound to get out.

 

They're not being snides, it's their opinion. It's not like they're trying to undermine Rafa - they still go out there and perform but they're affected by various things. A lack of faith takes 5% away from your performance in a subconscious sense IMO and they are also frustarted so that's bound to affect them.

 

Rafa is always giving the press information off the record as well by the way.

 

 

Isn't it? Why say it then, off the cuff, if it's not designed to undermine Rafa? The word naive immediately springs to mind. What would their motives for giving briefings off the cuff be?

 

If you think both Carra and Gerrard have given their all in recent weeks then that's you prerogative, I couldn't disagree more strongly. Where did you obtain this "A lack of faith takes 5% away from your perforlance in a subconscious sense"? It's a rather grand claim.

[drewy]

They want to win the league. How is that not looking out for the club?!

 

Eh, so Rafa doesn't then?

[Moo]

I think it's pretty clear it wasn't penny pinching over a million. It probably had very little to do with the money. Why didn't Chelsea sign Alves?

 

As for Gerrard's position and which one is best, that's a matter of opinion.

He would not play as a traditional right 'winger', in fact there are few of those around in modern football.

He would play, as he did the year before last when he won all those awards and scored all those goals, as a type of roaming inside right. Capable of everything, running with the ball, shooting, getting crosses in.

Similar to Ronaldo for United only Gerrard would play more as a midfielder than forward, and would do it better than Ronaldo.

 

And do you know what, that would be a bloody dream of a position for Gerrard - it'd be virtually designed for his abilities.

So why the feck he's so hung up on playing a further 20 yards infield is baffling, just baffling.

 

(Apologies for quoting myself but it was too late to edit)

[Brownie]

Eh, so Rafa doesn't then?

 

Of course he does. They all do.

[GRADY]

I think it's pretty clear it wasn't penny pinching over a million. It probably had very little to do with the money. Why didn't Chelsea sign Alves?

 

As for Gerrard's position and which one is best, that's a matter of opinion.

He would not play as a traditional right 'winger', in fact there are few of those around in modern football.

He would play, as he did the year before last when he won all those awards and scored all those goals, as a type of roaming inside right. Capable of everything, running with the ball, shooting, getting crosses in.

Similar to Ronaldo for United only Gerrard would play more as a midfielder than forward, and would do it better than Ronaldo.

 

What was it then? Maybe im wrong and we genuinely couldnt get that extra million but I find it hard to believe and I suppose its immaterial now anyway as that ship has sailed!

 

We will have to agree to disagree regarding gerrards best position. I dont think its such a big deal him playing on the right regularly as a kid when he was coming into the team but when he is established like he is now and 27 years old I dont think your going to get the best out gerrard over the next 5 yrs playing him on the right. but thats my opinion.

 

As for this gerrard/carra backstabbing the manger that some people are saying- have I missed something?? What have they done to undermine the manager?

 

An ultimately they are allowed an opinion anyway!! they are not slagging him in the press. They arent robots who can be programmed to agree with everything benitez says and does. If they feel he is now taking the club backwards and they should know better than us and bearing in mind the career of a footballer doesnt last forever then they would be concerned and rightfully so.

[hamstrung]

What was it then? Maybe im wrong and we genuinely couldnt get that extra million but I find it hard to believe and I suppose its immaterial now anyway as that ship has sailed!

.

 

Pretty sure we didn't not get him because of a million quid. 1 season later even Chelsea were baulking at the price, which probably tells you all you need to know about how the Seville chairman operates.`

[Brownie]

Isn't it? Why say it then, off the cuff, if it's not designed to undermine Rafa? The word naive immediately springs to mind. What would their motives for giving briefings off the cuff be?

 

If you think both Carra and Gerrard have given their all in recent weeks then that's you prerogative, I couldn't disagree more strongly. Where did you obtain this "A lack of faith takes 5% away from your perforlance in a subconscious sense"? It's a rather grand claim.

 

It's my opinion that if you don't have faith in a manager, you still give your all for the club, your family, personal pride, team-mates etc but you won't have that edge that you would have if you fully believed in your coach's methods.

 

Just my opinion like, hardly a grand claim.

[GRADY]

Pretty sure we didn't not get him because of a million quid. 1 season later even Chelsea were baulking at the price, which probably tells you all you need to know about how the Seville chairman operates.`

 

I know seville where taking the piss but I thought it was about 12 then he upped it by a million twice and so we fucked it off.

 

The following year it was 20 million plus they wanted from Chelsea.

 

Regardless I suppose my overall point is the money has been spent on wide players who arent good enough.

[Moo]

What was it then? Maybe im wrong and we genuinely couldnt get that extra million but I find it hard to believe and I suppose its immaterial now anyway as that ship has sailed!

 

We will have to agree to disagree regarding gerrards best position. I dont think its such a big deal him playing on the right regularly as a kid when he was coming into the team but when he is established like he is now and 27 years old I dont think your going to get the best out gerrard over the next 5 yrs playing him on the right. but thats my opinion.

 

 

It wouldn't necessarily have to be for the rest of his career, it would be for as long as required.

There might come a time when we buy that ideal right midfielder, one who is able to sufficiently replace Gerrard, allowing Gerrard to move back infield if the manager (hopefully Rafa) feels it's right for the team.

 

Personally, I feel Gerrad should play out there for as long as he's effective in that position, with the likes of Alves playing fullback and overlapping - that would be an immense combination.

 

As for why I think we didn't get Alves, it's the same reason I think Chelsea didn't and it's simply because his club/chairman wouldn't let him go. They have priced him out of the market because they are desperate to keep him.

[Rashid]

Rafa looking out the club and the other two looking out for number 1? Jesus!