The Midfield

[Fugitive]

We all know that it’s been a massive massive problem but is there now signs that we are about to transform ourselves?

 

Trent has been a revelation for me and needs to now stay there. He has been revitalised by playing in the centre and 6 assists in his last 6 games plus his all round play is no fluke. I’ve said for a few seasons now that he is made for playing in the centre due to his passing ability. I don’t say this lightly but his ability to pick out a player is better than KDB.

Next we have Bajcetic. I think we forget how good he was before he got injured. I know he is only 18 but he was outshining all our established players and Klopp had total faith in the lad. He could be an absolute sensation for us and nothing seems to phase him. If you’re good enough, you’re old enough.

 

We are tentatively looking like we may get Mac Allister in. Another who has proven himself in the league and will add a lot to us.

 

If we can add another in there who has a bit of experience and is quality, we are set for the foreseeable.

 

Curtis has also gone up in my estimation  a lot over the last few games. He works his arse off and is a decent back up option.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

[El Rojo]

6 minutes ago, Fugitive said:

We all know that it’s been a massive massive problem but is there now signs that we are about to transform ourselves?

 

Trent has been a revelation for me and needs to now stay there. He has been revitalised by playing in the centre and 6 assists in his last 6 games plus his all round play is no fluke. I’ve said for a few seasons now that he is made for playing in the centre due to his passing ability. I don’t say this lightly but his ability to pick out a player is better than KDB.

Next we have Bajcetic. I think we forget how good he was before he got injured. I know he is only 18 but he was outshining all our established players and Klopp had total faith in the lad. He could be an absolute sensation for us and nothing seems to phase him. If you’re good enough, you’re old enough.

 

We are tentatively looking like we may get Mac Allister in. Another who has proven himself in the league and will add a lot to us.

 

If we can add another in there who has a bit of experience and is quality, we are set for the foreseeable.

 

Curtis has also gone up in my estimation  a lot over the last few games. He works his arse off and is a decent back up option.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

Bajectic and Jones will be great to have next season regardless of who comes in. If we had a functioning midfield, Bajectic would be out on loan at Preston or something and we might never have given him the opportunity that he seized so well. Same with Jones in recent weeks. 

 

Mac Allister looks like the kind of footballer we should have replaced Wijnaldum with.

 

While Henderson and Thiago are getting on in years and injury-prone, hopefully a proper rest and competition for his place will inject a bit of form into Fabinho. 
 

Trent is just a brilliant footballer, being played at the moment in the position where he emerged as a kid. He’ll be right up there with De Bruyne.

[Carvalho Diablo]

Completely agree with you Fuge.

 

Still crying out for 3 more quality midfield additions too though.

[Fugitive]

25 minutes ago, Carvalho Diablo said:

Completely agree with you Fuge.

 

Still crying out for 3 more quality midfield additions too though.

I reckon we only need two midfielders, a good right back and a new centre half.

[joe_fishfish]

We've still got shitloads of midfielders, if we sign a right back and move Trent into midfield - which we should - that's seven for three spots. (Six and a half really given Thiago's injury record.)

 

Klopp will never do it but I'd move Fabinho on and replace him.

[Fallen Angel]

7 hours ago, Fugitive said:

We all know that it’s been a massive massive problem but is there now signs that we are about to transform ourselves?

 

Trent has been a revelation for me and needs to now stay there. He has been revitalised by playing in the centre and 6 assists in his last 6 games plus his all round play is no fluke. I’ve said for a few seasons now that he is made for playing in the centre due to his passing ability. I don’t say this lightly but his ability to pick out a player is better than KDB.

Next we have Bajcetic. I think we forget how good he was before he got injured. I know he is only 18 but he was outshining all our established players and Klopp had total faith in the lad. He could be an absolute sensation for us and nothing seems to phase him. If you’re good enough, you’re old enough.

 

We are tentatively looking like we may get Mac Allister in. Another who has proven himself in the league and will add a lot to us.

 

If we can add another in there who has a bit of experience and is quality, we are set for the foreseeable.

 

Curtis has also gone up in my estimation  a lot over the last few games. He works his arse off and is a decent back up option.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

Would you keep TAA in his current hybrid role or switch him with a new right back being added to the squad? 

[Fallen Angel]

6 hours ago, Fugitive said:

I reckon we only need two midfielders, a good right back and a new centre half.

Sorry mate, you’ve already answered …

[Bobby Hundreds]

I thought Bajcetic was great in a bad situation surrounded by poor performing players, honestly I wasn't that star struck by him that I think he's a shoe in for the first 11. I think he needs to earn it all over again before he is down as one of the first midfield options. He shouldn't be a reason not to buy a better player. 

 

Remember the amount of times we heard we shouldn't buy someone as it will block this persons path. Fuck their path its theirs to forge.

[the chimp]

Daichi Kamada at Eintracht Frankfurt is interesting. He would be free, has low wages, is hardly ever injured, runs a lot, can play on the right of midfield, joins in with the attack from there, and scores goals. I'm not saying he'd be a world-beater, but he'd strengthen us for a minimal outlay, and take some of the pressure off Harvey/support Mo.

[YorkshireRed]

We should sign that Bellingham kid who’s currently plying his trade at Dortmund.

 

Looks a half decent prospect. 

[an tha]

We all know Oxlade and Keita are total wastes of space so don't even really count - but we are in a position where we are even just numbers wise going to lose them and Milner this summer and there has to be big question marks over the futures of Thiago and Henderdon if not this summer then next for certain, and at best it would probably be fair to say that both will be bit part players next season....1 by choice, the other because he simply can't offer anymore.

 

So if we look at our options ahead of signings it IMHO looks pretty bare:

 

Fabinho

Elliott

Jones

Bajcetic

 

Henderson

Thiago

 

TAA - maybe, depends on where we go tactically.

 

There are question marks against nearly all of that and also not a single one of the regular midfielders is at that generally accepted peak/prime age.

 

If we say Hendo and Thiago take on roles where Hendo takes the role Milner has held over last couple of years and Thiago is an option we don't rely on but who can come on when available and help us close games out/be a rotation option subject to the aforementioned availability and help/play in half our games at best (not an ideal situation in my book as does not help with continuity etc) then OK fair enough I suppose.

 

That leaves just 4 what you might call first 11 regular options and maybe TAA as a wildcard....That IMHO is well short of what we need, especially given we still don't know if Jones can cope with a heavy workload - Bajcetic as handy as he did look is still a baby and a flurry of games saw him breakdown....Elliott is still learning the defenisve side of a job that is not natural to him and Fabinho, well the jury is somewhat out.

 

One of the big problems we have had is the back up options have been unreliable and not available and frankly shite - this has meant we haven't been able to rotate when have needed to, have had a lack of options on the bench and been unable to freshen things properly.

 

For me the big reason we won the two cups last season was because we had better "B" teams certainly in key areas of side than in previous years - when we rotated for cups it was mostly players in and around 1st team picture as opposed to untried kids - back up players were mostly available across the park and contributed - likes of Minamino et al/we rotated Matip and Konate at centre half with Matip playing mostly league and Konate cup...

 

So if we factor in TAA and if we add at least 2 peak age, high quality starting 11 midfielders with legs, engines, physicality, mobility etc - all the things we have been lacking in there then we may be set fair 

 

Hendo is good for the Milner role and maybe a little more....Thiago will offer about as much availability as Oxlade and Keita combined if we are lucky, with to be fair much more quality - so maybe the 'back up' or the options to mix it are a touch better as long as Jones can offer more availability and Bajcetic develops too.

 

So for me ideally we go into next season with:

 

New midfielder

New midfielder

TAA

Fabinho

Jones

Thiago

Elliott

Henderson

Bajcetic

 

You play Bajcetic in the uefa cup and domestic cups so he gets plenty of development - you have about 5 or 6 players who offer you a high level of "potential first choice" options week in week out for the 3 spots and without a big drop off in quality when have to or want to make changes, and you have a couple of old experienced options in there too who have quality and nous etc.

 

People talk about and have talked about the numbers we have had and how it on paper is/was more than enough - it never has been though really this season because the parts have been very much less than what their sum should have been - way too many absences, week after week - i think yesterday we had 4 fit/available regular midfielders for example out of our 10 or whatever it is....hopefully the 9 or so above offer improved quality, reliability and depth.

 

TAA feels potentially pivotal in things though and it will be fascinating to see what we do - 2 new midfileders may need to become 3 or we may also need a right back - Gomez/Ramsay, is that enough....All that side of the puzzle is fascinating.

 

We'll be shopping for a few midfielders over next two years though whatever happens IMO....we need to ensure our succession planning is better than it has been so we are never caught again how we have been caught this season in midfield.

[Code]

We are not playing in the UEFA Cup/ Europa League. 

[Barrington Womble]

16 hours ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

I thought Bajcetic was great in a bad situation surrounded by poor performing players, honestly I wasn't that star struck by him that I think he's a shoe in for the first 11. I think he needs to earn it all over again before he is down as one of the first midfield options. He shouldn't be a reason not to buy a better player. 

 

Remember the amount of times we heard we shouldn't buy someone as it will block this persons path. Fuck their path its theirs to forge.

I agree with that. We need to get 3 new mids in. Trent can continue with his hybrid role. And bajcetic needs to fight his way past Henderson, thiago and fabinho to be fighting with the new players and Jones for 3 starters and 2 subs we'll likely use each game. 

 

I don't know where any of it leaves Elliot. He's played a lot this season. In fact I'm sure it was march before there was a game he was not involved with. But I feel we need to get him a little stronger, plus he clearly needs to work on his stuff without the ball. But after such a successful season on a personal level (I'm sure he's played way more than he thought before the season began), he's passed the point we could loan him somewhere I think. So we have to figure out what his path is going to be as a footballer and help him improve. 

[Carvalho Diablo]

Goodbye captain, Jordan Henderson's shock decision after not starting against Brentford | Liverpool FC You'll Never Walk Alone Liverpool News https://www.liverpoolfcnews.co.uk/liverpoolnews/Goodbye-captain-Jordan-Hendersons-shock-decision-after-not-starting-against-Brentford-20230506-0008.html

 

[Moo]

I think Trent has been average in his new hybrid role, especially yesterday, and we can definitely get more out of him and his right foot from right back than having him stroll around midfield hitting mostly 10-15 yard harmless passes. We have to do what's right for the team not what's right for Trent's ego. Even just continuing the hybrid role I think would be a mistake but could work with some serious legs in RM. It worries me that this would mean the experiment going into the new season though and I don't think we can afford that.

So two new first team midfielders at a minimum are required to replace AOC and Keita in numbers and Henderson and Thiago in the first eleven.

[an tha]

7 minutes ago, Moo said:

I think Trent has been average in his new hybrid role, especially yesterday, and we can definitely get more out of him and his right foot from right back than having him stroll around midfield hitting mostly 10-15 yard harmless passes. We have to do what's right for the team not what's right for Trent's ego. Even just continuing the hybrid role I think would be a mistake but could work with some serious legs in RM. It worries me that this would mean the experiment going into the new season though and I don't think we can afford that.

So two new first team midfielders at a minimum are required to replace AOC and Keita in numbers and Henderson and Thiago in the first eleven.

Hard to ignore this though...

 

[Moo]

2 minutes ago, an tha said:

Hard to ignore this though...

 

 

Don't need to ignore it, he can be and has been all that from RB too and of course much of what he's done in this time period will have been from the right.

[an tha]

9 minutes ago, Moo said:

 

Don't need to ignore it, he can be and has been all that from RB too and of course much of what he's done in this time period will have been from the right.

Not too sure he'd be hitting all of those from RB.

 

I don't think this role change is perfect, still feel there are issues that may be exploited by best teams - but i do feel it has been a pretty big part of our improved results and i feel to say he has been average in his changed role is not fair.

 

The change has of course been made due to the ongoing glaring problems in team which hopefully we have a plan to fix and maybe a part of that fix is TAA himself - we'll see. I'd be surprised if we persist with the current tactic into next season, but it is perfectly possible we might and we might be even better placed to do so on terms of personnel around it.

[Mathewbet1]

I would be looking to sell fabinho and replace him with a more mobile destroyer, whats the point in keeping him if we get 2/3 new midfielders, 6 into 3 dont go when it comes to too top class players. The same with thiago too, bit of a luxury to have him on the bench / injured on his wages. We need a shake up. 

[Fallen Angel]

2 hours ago, Mathewbet1 said:

I would be looking to sell fabinho and replace him with a more mobile destroyer, whats the point in keeping him if we get 2/3 new midfielders, 6 into 3 dont go when it comes to too top class players. The same with thiago too, bit of a luxury to have him on the bench / injured on his wages. We need a shake up. 

I’d add Henderson to that list for the chop - offers nothing now, and his legs are not returning. 

[joe_fishfish]

Only reason I'd keep Hendo is for the homegrown quota, and I'd move Fabinho on as I've said above.

 

But Klopp won't do it. Don't think he's ever sold a first team player who wants to stay and still has a contract. Lovren maybe but he wasn't a regular starter, plus he was shite.

[VladimirIlyich]

We need pace in there. That is the best thing Trent could offer us in there. But he shouldn't be used as an excuse to save money by our tight owners as so often is the case. Our centre half options need a re-think over the course of a season too.

[Barrington Womble]

38 minutes ago, joe_fishfish said:

Only reason I'd keep Hendo is for the homegrown quota, and I'd move Fabinho on as I've said above.

 

But Klopp won't do it. Don't think he's ever sold a first team player who wants to stay and still has a contract. Lovren maybe but he wasn't a regular starter, plus he was shite.

Lovren wanted to go, bit he wasn't a first team starter. If players want to stay and are good enough to be starters every week, you'd be weakening your team by selling. Generally you get rid of those players when they start to dip towards the end of their career so they get old on someone else's coin. The trouble we have is we have clear valuations on our players and won't release them unless they're met and that's everyone from a fringe player like Nat Phillips right up to Mo. So it's pretty unlikely any club is going to hit the valuations we require. 

[Bobby Hundreds]

We need to lower our expectations on some players values who offer nothing to the  squad other than the cost to pay them. We can't dictate to the market no matter how much we would like too. Its a real weakness of this side not selling players and evolving when we need to, letting players run contracts down just seems weirdly dumb. I dont know if its Klopp or Klopp knows he wont be backed to replace them so he keeps what he has, either way it results in the lack of ruthlessness and why the side has looked stale as fuck all season.

[El Rojo]

People have made a case on here for us to bin off just about every midfielder we have. Not going to happen, and nor should it. 

I reckon Jones, Bajectic and Fabinho will play a lot more than Thiago and Henderson next season. Obviously they'll have a couple of new team-mates in there too. 

 

On Fabinho, I refuse to believe that a player as good as he was for us won't regain some decent form after a break in the summer. He's still only 29.