Jude Bellingham Welcome to Liverpool…

[El Dangerous]

26 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

 

Shocking news as Sasas hints at Liverpool return for Shaqiri.

[Barrington Womble]

28 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

Our decision making and way of doing things. As a club, in the transfer market, squad composition, squad management, etc...

Well we're driven economically like we've always been. Our choices in the transfer market are dictated by the funds available and the players who leave. We do the bare minimum and hope the manager has some magic. It's been our process since they sacked Kenny. 

[NoelM]

3 hours ago, Ronnie Whelan said:

Personally I think Diaz and Gakpo were terrific signings. Carvalho was a good punt that might pay off and Minamino  was worth a shot as well.

 

I think we'll sign Bellinghan this summer. It makes sense for FSG - if he is transformative he pays for himself, if he is just "very good", they'll still get their money back. He's so young and a likely English captain. Worth a fortune on and off the pitch. Furthermore, by all accounts, he's a great lad. An Irish lad I know from the pub comes from the same place as his granny in Ireland and said the whole family are the loveliest people. Ties in what people on here who know his dad said as well.

 

I think he will do great here if he comes. However, we need a lot more than him in midfield. I do like Mount and I'd be happy with him here. Put aside he plays for Chelsea. He's a good player who is being cast aside for shiny new playthings there.

 

Personally, I would go big on a centre half like Gvardiol this summer. I'm not saying Virgil is finished, but I can see a big decline in the next 18 months. Big Bird is on the decline as well and Joe isn't going to get to where we hoped. Let's at least make sorting our defence out a little easier rather than turning it into the next clusterfuck in 2024 by getting one big costly defender in.

 

It's all very kid in a candy shop but if we did spend big and well this summer, it really sets up well for the next few years. 2018 was a really good summer where we spent big and I'd love if we did that this summer.

 

I'm no fan of FSG and thanks to Jurgen, they have been getting multiple free spins on their free bet of the day. This feels different though. If they don't invest in the team, it could unravel completely and they would stand to lose a lot more financially. That's why I think they will back Jurgen good style this summer. They aren't stupid.

 

Wow I never thought he had Irish connections - what part of Ireland are his Dads family from?

[3 Stacks]

5 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Well we're driven economically like we've always been. Our choices in the transfer market are dictated by the funds available and the players who leave. We do the bare minimum and hope the manager has some magic. It's been our process since they sacked Kenny. 

We're talking here mostly about our rebuilt attack where lots of funds have been released. 

 

The financial aspect is a big factor in general but I don't give us the benefit of the doubt in terms of footballing decisions anymore.

[Barrington Womble]

55 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

We're talking here mostly about our rebuilt attack where lots of funds have been released. 

 

The financial aspect is a big factor in general but I don't give us the benefit of the doubt in terms of footballing decisions anymore.

Of course we've bought forwards. We have lost forwards. What would you have them do? 

 

More an issue is hanging on to players who can't play or we don't want to play like chamberlain and keita. If we had been willing to release them or let them go for low fees, we maybe would have had more balance to the midfield this season. But again, I don't think this is new. We've kept hold of loads of players for too long, like Sturridge, lallana, origi. But we have mostly got away with it, partly through klopps brilliance. Partly through certain players (robbo, Trent, vvd, Gini, Salah, bobby and mane) for a long time were able to keep playing and rarely get injured. 

[3 Stacks]

28 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Of course we've bought forwards. We have lost forwards. What would you have them do? 

 

More an issue is hanging on to players who can't play or we don't want to play like chamberlain and keita. If we had been willing to release them or let them go for low fees, we maybe would have had more balance to the midfield this season. But again, I don't think this is new. We've kept hold of loads of players for too long, like Sturridge, lallana, origi. But we have mostly got away with it, partly through klopps brilliance. Partly through certain players (robbo, Trent, vvd, Gini, Salah, bobby and mane) for a long time were able to keep playing and rarely get injured. 

I was replying to your paragraph about finances. We've spent a lot of money on the attack. Finances are not the problem in that area.

 

I don't think the profiles in attack make sense on paper and we haven't seen it make sense on the pitch either, injuries or not. We'll see next season. Until then, I don't intrinsically trust what the club is doing anymore. That's my point. Never mind what we're doing with the midfield and the mess we've seen at the back this season. 

[Barrington Womble]

6 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

I was replying to your paragraph about finances. We've spent a lot of money on the attack. Finances are not the problem in that area.

 

I don't think the profiles in attack make sense on paper and we haven't seen it make sense on the pitch either, injuries or not. We'll see next season. Until then, I don't intrinsically trust what the club is doing anymore. That's my point. Never mind what we're doing with the midfield and the mess we've seen at the back this season. 

But we operate a 1 in 1 policy pretty much. So klopps choice is the players he got or you would assume inferior ones. He wasn't going to get a midfielder by buying a forward cheaper than Darwin, because we haven't let anyone go in midfield. There's no doubt in my mind, our lack of balance is because of injuries and our eagerness to hold on to players who clearly don't cut it. I think from a squad management perspective our weakness is not getting players out of midfield. Klopp is on record himself saying we can't bring players in if others don't leave. 

[3 Stacks]

14 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

But we operate a 1 in 1 policy pretty much. So klopps choice is the players he got or you would assume inferior ones. He wasn't going to get a midfielder by buying a forward cheaper than Darwin, because we haven't let anyone go in midfield. There's no doubt in my mind, our lack of balance is because of injuries and our eagerness to hold on to players who clearly don't cut it. I think from a squad management perspective our weakness is not getting players out of midfield. Klopp is on record himself saying we can't bring players in if others don't leave. 

Diaz, Darwin and Gakpo is generally superior to Mané, Minamino and Origi. 2 out of 3 at least, so 1 for 1 is no problem there. My problem again are the profiles and how they are meant to fit together.

 

I don't disagree with the midfield part and we know we generally operate that way. I'm well aware of that. I knew we weren't buying anyone unless someone left. 

 

But all that, the fit issues in attack and not finding a way to make space in midfield, that is decision making. Bad decision making. I don't really care whether it's owners being reticent to let people go because of finances or Klopp wasn't pushing enough. It's probably a bit of both. Jones could have gone on loan. Something could have been done. Then the injuries and the training, that's clearly been bad. None of it is good enough and I'll have to see the good things happen first.

[VladimirIlyich]

13 hours ago, Daisy said:

 

We started signing players purely because of their perceived low value a while back, paying no attention to how they would fit in the team. 

 

Shaqiri

Minamino 

Diaz

Gakpo

Carvalho

 

All of those were signed because they were cheap at the time. Only Diaz has been successful, the rest just dont/didnt fit in with how Klopp plays. Gakpo might come good but he doesnt seem to have enough aggression/intensity to lead fhe press. 

 

Nunez is the outlier, in that he was both ridiculously expensive and also doesnt fit Klopps system.

 

Been a total shambles

 

Nunez has been a total shambles? Can I have a dozen more of these total shambles please!

[navbasi]

1 minute ago, VladimirIlyich said:

Nunez has been a total shambles? Can I have a dozen more of these total shambles please!

I really don’t get the hate he gets..

 

He’s just turned 23, 1st season in the Premier League in an underperforming team but he’s still managed:

 

CL - 4 goals in 8 appearances

PL - 8 goals and 3 assists in 20 appearances.

 

There is so much more to come from him, that’s obvious. I really hope we end up paying the £20m add-on as he’ll have scored a bucket load and we’ll have won a few more trophies… 

 

Players like Richarlson cost Spurs £60m and hasn’t scored a single league goal for them, Antony cost the Mancs £86m and has scored 3 goals in 14 appearances and not a single assist but it’s Darwin’s fee that always gets highlighted and mentioned as €100m to fit the agenda. Pisses me right off!!!

 

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

2 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

Diaz, Darwin and Gakpo is generally superior to Mané, Minamino and Origi. 2 out of 3 at least, so 1 for 1 is no problem there. My problem again are the profiles and how they are meant to fit together.

 

I don't disagree with the midfield part and we know we generally operate that way. I'm well aware of that. I knew we weren't buying anyone unless someone left. 

 

But all that, the fit issues in attack and not finding a way to make space in midfield, that is decision making. Bad decision making. I don't really care whether it's owners being reticent to let people go because of finances or Klopp wasn't pushing enough. It's probably a bit of both. Jones could have gone on loan. Something could have been done. Then the injuries and the training, that's clearly been bad. None of it is good enough and I'll have to see the good things happen first.

Agree with your point that our recruitment doesnt look as convincing as it did a few years ago. It seems we’ve lost some important members of thw backroom staff, and there has been changes in the management as well that seem a bit odd. Also other clubs have made massive improvements to their recruitment, I get the impression every top club is using data science now to support their decisions. So competition is a lot tougher when it comes to identifying the players with the highest potential and the best fit.

 

That said I’m not sure I agree about the attack. Klopp has said on numerous occasions that having players that can play different positions is good, because it gives you flexibility. Do we know that the plan was to use Nunez as a nine only? Gakpo seems to be perfect for the false nine, do we know that it was never the intention to use him there? It seems to me we have put together a group of good attacking players with complementary attributes, most of them can play more than one position, and it gives us loads of options. I predict if they can all stay fit, and we assemble a decent midfield our attack will be unstoppable.

[3 Stacks]

34 minutes ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:

Agree with your point that our recruitment doesnt look as convincing as it did a few years ago. It seems we’ve lost some important members of thw backroom staff, and there has been changes in the management as well that seem a bit odd. Also other clubs have made massive improvements to their recruitment, I get the impression every top club is using data science now to support their decisions. So competition is a lot tougher when it comes to identifying the players with the highest potential and the best fit.

 

That said I’m not sure I agree about the attack. Klopp has said on numerous occasions that having players that can play different positions is good, because it gives you flexibility. Do we know that the plan was to use Nunez as a nine only? Gakpo seems to be perfect for the false nine, do we know that it was never the intention to use him there? It seems to me we have put together a group of good attacking players with complementary attributes, most of them can play more than one position, and it gives us loads of options. I predict if they can all stay fit, and we assemble a decent midfield our attack will be unstoppable.

It's not about versatility. I like players who are versatile, always have. I see it as a massive plus. The issue is when you're doing it pie in the sky because you're searching for a solution. Darwin can play on the left, but you're not gonna convince me that's where we wanted him to play long term when we signed him for 80m. He's supposed to be a number 9, but it turns out our shape is fucked when we've tried that, so this is a temporary solution. Darwin should probably play on the left for now because we can't figure out anything else, but that can't be the plan going forward.

 

Gakpo I think can sort of play anywhere because he's good technically and he's intelligent, but logically Nunez is meant to be the 9, so you play him off that. What we're seeing now just screams of short term solution and doing something because it gives us a modicum of organisation, but that's it. 

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

1 hour ago, 3 Stacks said:

It's not about versatility. I like players who are versatile, always have. I see it as a massive plus. The issue is when you're doing it pie in the sky because you're searching for a solution. Darwin can play on the left, but you're not gonna convince me that's where we wanted him to play long term when we signed him for 80m. He's supposed to be a number 9, but it turns out our shape is fucked when we've tried that, so this is a temporary solution. Darwin should probably play on the left for now because we can't figure out anything else, but that can't be the plan going forward.

 

Gakpo I think can sort of play anywhere because he's good technically and he's intelligent, but logically Nunez is meant to be the 9, so you play him off that. What we're seeing now just screams of short term solution and doing something because it gives us a modicum of organisation, but that's it. 

I never said that we wanted him to play on the left long term. Klopp said when we signed him he’s a number 9 that can play on the wing as well. We will see where we use him, he added.

 

It’s flexibility and it’s good.

 

I reckon he’ll be good on the left in the future, and he’ll have great games in the centre as well. I also think your conclusion that our shape is fucked with him in the middle  is premature. Let’s see how it works with a decent midfield and a team that’s hitting form.

 

[3 Stacks]

12 minutes ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:

I never said that we wanted him to play on the left long term. Klopp said when we signed him he’s a number 9 that can play on the wing as well. We will see where we use him, he added.

 

It’s flexibility and it’s good.

 

I reckon he’ll be good on the left in the future, and he’ll have great games in the centre as well. I also think your conclusion that our shape is fucked with him in the middle  is premature. Let’s see how it works with a decent midfield and a team that’s hitting form.

 

The shape had been fucked with Darwin in the middle, I'm not saying it will never be unfucked. The plan is hopefully for it not to be fucked.

 

And again what we're doing now isn't "flexibility", it's scrambling for a solution in a lost season.

[Aventus]

A big reason the the shape was fucked with him in the middle was the fact we were having to play people like Oxlade-Chamberlain and Carvalho on the left at the time. 

[Carra_is_legend]

I feel sorry for Carvalho. He would have played a LOT more had he stayed at Fulham.

 

If he couldn't get more into this shite team of ours this season, I am not sure what the future holds for him. 

[navbasi]

Liverpool’s Jude Bellingham alternatives: Musah, Willock or Ligue 1 stars?

It is one of the worst-kept secrets in football that Jude Bellingham is at the top of Liverpool’s list of priorities.

The 19-year-old has long been seen as crucial to Jurgen Klopp’s rebuild and that point has only been reinforced due to the club’s midfield struggles this season.

However, The Athletic’s David Ornstein revealed that Liverpool’s hopes of signing the England international were decreasing, with Manchester City and Real Madrid better positioned to sign Bellingham.

 

Any chance of a deal happening is not completely dead but, under Fenway Sports Group’s ownership, there are prices that are out of Liverpool’s range. Add to this the reality that Liverpool may not be playing Champions Leaguefootball next season, their appeal from a player perspective lessens. They will also be without the revenue the competition brings.

The improvement needed to Liverpool’s midfield is vast — one player, even as extraordinary as Bellingham, will not solve all of Klopp’s problems. However, missing out on the Borussia Dortmund player would be a significant blow. He is already part of an elite group of world-class midfielders, and his trajectory points to him only getting better.

It would also bring a sense of uncertainty to Anfield. If Bellingham was Liverpool’s Plan A, then what is Plan B?

Theoretically, no money spent on Bellingham would allow for funds to be divided between three central midfielders instead. Adding a higher quantity (if not exactly the same quality as Bellingham) could be more beneficial, especially given the fact that Naby Keita, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Arthur (on loan) and potentially James Milner are all set to depart this summer.

Take Chelsea’s Mason Mount and Wolves’ Matheus Nunes — two players known to be on Liverpool’s radar — and add a third, is it possible the total spend could be close to the figures quoted for Bellingham? And if so, who could be on that list in terms of players similar in style to him?

Using smarterscout, which uses data to give players a rating from 0-99 on a variety of metrics, we can gain an understanding of Bellingham’s qualities and tendencies (see below) and match them with players who possess similar traits.

As seen through this profile, Bellingham is a generational talent who is assured in possession. He dribbles with the ball frequently (carry and dribble volume: 90 out of 99) and, impressively, he still has a strong ball-retention ability (81 out of 99). According to Squawka, only Lionel Messi (78), Vinicius Junior (77) and Alphonso Davies (64) have completed more dribbles than Bellingham this season (63). He also favours shorter passing (link-up play volume: 82 out of 99) to longer, progressive passing (25 out of 99).

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He has an above-average defending intensity (68 out of 99), which is how often the player is the most relevant defender when his side is out of possession. He is effective at forcing turnovers and limiting the opposition progressing the ball (defending impact: 56 out of 99), while also being a disruptive presence and proactive when trying to stop opponents (disrupting opposition moves: 75 out of 99).

Four goals and four assists in 24 Bundesliga games underline his attacking threat, and his creativity is shown by his high xG from shot creation (76 out of 99) — this demonstrates how much a player’s actions contribute to creating scoring chances for their team, such as taking shots, creating chances or making the pass before the chance.

Bellingham can play as a central midfielder in a 4-3-3 or more of a defensive midfielder in a 4-2-3-1, which makes him tougher to profile against contemporaries.

With Liverpool not expected to move away from their 4-3-3 system, we have taken Bellingham’s stylistic profile as a central midfielder and compared it to players aged 23 and under who have played 900+ minutes this season.

Barcelona duo Pedri and Gavi, who also sit alongside Bellingham as two of the best young midfielders in Europe, are most similar — and also unattainable.

They are followed by Newcastle’s Joe Willock, which will surprise many but not all. Willock was deemed stylistically similar to former Liverpool midfielder Georginio Wijnaldum when the Dutchman was at his best during his time at Anfield.

 

 

 

Progressing down the list, you realise how varied the profiles are for the midfielders who class as similar to Bellingham. It only goes to highlight how impressive the youngster is and how complete his game is — you arguably need two players to cover his attributes at the elite level.

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Maxence Caqueret, Lyon

The Frenchman is an integral part of his Lyon side. Following his breakout season in 2020-21, Caqueret has developed into a balanced, all-round player.

There are noticeable differences to Bellingham. He is not a ball carrier (29 out 99) and he does not retain the ball as well (40 out of 99) but he is as reliable at linking play (61 out of 99) and passing progressively (55 out of 99).

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Caqueret is not a goalscorer, with his solitary strike this season the only one in his professional career, although he has provided five assists in the league this campaign.

Whereas Bellingham predominantly excels in xG from shot creation, the French midfielder is more varied with his contributions as he is slightly above average in xG from shot creation (56 out of 99), xG from ball progression (55 out of 99) and receptions in the opposition’s box (56 out of 99).

The midfielder is energetic, and while he is not the most-active defender (24 out of 99), he is disruptive (98 out of 99) through tackling, fouling, blocking and clearances. He also reads the game well to intercept passes and recover loose balls (77 out of 99).

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Enzo Le Fee, Lorient

Another eye-catching midfielder from the French league who fits the description is FC Lorient’s Le Fee.

The diminutive midfielder (5ft 7in; 170cm) is fun to watch because of his all-action nature — and that is illustrated by his high defending intensity (77 out of 99).

Although he is not effective at blocking passing lanes and forcing turnovers (16 out of 99), he is exceptional at getting tight to his man to disrupt opposition moves (87 out of 99).

The significant difference between Le Fee and Bellingham is their use of the ball. While the latter prefers short passes, Le Fee is more direct and looks to play forward, with his progressive passing (70 out of 99) noticeably higher than his link-up play volume (27 out of 99).

With four goals and five assists in 28 league appearances this season, he also provides creativity: his xG from shot creation (82 out of 99) and ball progression (88 out of 99) are both impressive.

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Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall

A more familiar name is the Leicester City midfielder, who established himself as an important part of Brendan Rodgers’ squad.

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The Englishman has proven a thorn in Liverpool’s side in games against Leicester, as he has a tendency to pull wide, creating space to receive possession and allowing his side to play between the lines.

The areas he finds mean he can carry the ball forward regularly (77 out of 99) and play a variety of passes to link play via short passes (53 out of 99) or hitting progressive passes into his forwards (60 out of 99).

He provides energy in his off-the-ball work and his defending intensity (65 out of 99) and defending impact (53 out of 99) are not far off Bellingham’s levels.

The big question would be his attacking output, but his two goals and two assists in 24 Premier League starts so far this season have to be put into context of being part of a struggling Leicester side, and he ranks slightly below average in all attacking metrics.

That might be concerning — but they are similar to Bellingham, with the exception being Dewsbury-Hall’s much lower xG from shot creation (38 out of 99).

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Yunus Musah, Valencia

The Valencia midfielder was an Arsenal academy product before moving to Spain in 2019 and switching his allegiances to the U.S. after being an England youth international. He is versatile, and initially featured on the right of midfield before making the switch into the middle.

Musah combines speed, athleticism and dynamic movement to be a box-to-box midfielder affecting both ends of the pitch; he arrives and receives in the box (96 out of 99) and has an above-average defending intensity (64 out of 99). Despite his influence in the opposition box, he provides little creativity, with his xG from shot creation (17 out of 99) and ball progression (13 out of 99) both low — but that could be down to the role he is playing.

Musah suits a counter-pressing system, and his defending impact (83 out of 99) illustrates this well.

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In possession, Musah is primarily a ball carrier (95 out of 99), which comes at the expense of retaining the ball (46 out of 99), although he favours short passes to link up and keep his side ticking (66 out of 99) rather moving the ball directly up the pitch (12 out of 99).

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Matheus Nunes, Wolves

To speak of ball carriers, you have to mention Nunes: the man who has repeatedly been linked to Liverpool over the past 12 months and is admired by those at the club.

The Portugal international does not feature on the list of similar players, but that is likely to be due to Nunes only playing 626 minutes as a central midfielder, as we have set the criteria at a minimum of 900 minutes.

The 24-year-old profiles similar to Musah in possession, with his high carry and dribble volume (97 out of 99) and preferring to link-up play (51 out of 99) rather than to pass progressively (18 out of 99).

He provides creativity from arriving in the box (81 out of 99) and in possession, with respectable xG from both shot creation (52 out of 99) and ball progression (47 out of 99). Although, he only has one assist and no goals this season, despite shooting frequently (92 out of 99) — so his final product would need to improve.

While his defending intensity (46 out of 99) is not as high, he has a better score for his defensive impact (74 out of 99) in preventing the opponent’s ball progression while also being above average for disrupting opposition moves (56 out of 99).

[Ronnie Whelan]

19 hours ago, NoelM said:

 

Wow I never thought he had Irish connections - what part of Ireland are his Dads family from?

Not sure Noel but my Irish mate just said they are a lovely family. 

 

[El Rojo]

19 hours ago, NoelM said:

 

Wow I never thought he had Irish connections - what part of Ireland are his Dads family from?

 

Apparently his father's parents are from Ireland. There's a picture of Jude in an Irish shirt as a little fella,  

[Barrington Womble]

18 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

Diaz, Darwin and Gakpo is generally superior to Mané, Minamino and Origi. 2 out of 3 at least, so 1 for 1 is no problem there. My problem again are the profiles and how they are meant to fit together.

 

I don't disagree with the midfield part and we know we generally operate that way. I'm well aware of that. I knew we weren't buying anyone unless someone left. 

 

But all that, the fit issues in attack and not finding a way to make space in midfield, that is decision making. Bad decision making. I don't really care whether it's owners being reticent to let people go because of finances or Klopp wasn't pushing enough. It's probably a bit of both. Jones could have gone on loan. Something could have been done. Then the injuries and the training, that's clearly been bad. None of it is good enough and I'll have to see the good things happen first.

 

I don't really see the issue you are seeing with the "fit" of the players. We could certainly do with more flexibility for the right hand side, but I think that's been generally true since we went to 3 up front anyway. This forward line has more flexibility and possibilities than at any time under klopp.  We've not reaped the benefit of that yet because we've had a lot of injuries in that position, the forward line is in transition and the midfield is in regression and will be hopefully going through transition next season. 

 

Maybe it won't ever quite get the gel firmino, Salah and mane had, but that survived for a short period through good fortune with them staying fit when there was no alternatives and those 3 played together 50 matches a year for a couple of seasons. We've had to field something like 20 different forward lines in 40 games this year.

 

We have 5 super talented forwards and a coach who's spent his entire career building brilliant forward lines. Our forwards and our recruitment in those areas is the least of our worries imo. In fact I would say we've refreshed it relatively cheaply and with the exception of Salah, as they all look fine footballers and have their best years in front of them. 

[BeefStroganoff]

it would just be peak FSG to pull out of any deal for this fella if its expensive after wasting countless windows and throwing away an entire season.

[El Rojo]

Ideally he'll stay at Dortmund for another season so we can get another eighteen months of these articles telling us that he's definitely coming or definitely not coming. 

[Carra_is_legend]

9 minutes ago, El Rojo said:

Ideally he'll stay at Dortmund for another season so we can get another eighteen months of these articles telling us that he's definitely coming or definitely not coming. 

Agreed. We are only on 35th page. Disappointing. 

[Babb'sBurstNad]

If he goes elsewhere I'll call him Pooed Smellingham

[SasaS]

57 minutes ago, El Rojo said:

Ideally he'll stay at Dortmund for another season so we can get another eighteen months of these articles telling us that he's definitely coming or definitely not coming. 

Fifteen at best.