Keir Starmer

[Jairzinho]

2 hours ago, Jack the Sipper said:

it's a bit of an insult to the likes of the Greens, the Socialist Labour Party, Socialist Workers Party, the Communist Party of Great Britain, the Northern Independence Party and others, to say that there's nowhere

for the working man of the left to go. And if the argument is that none of these field enough candidates or have a chance of attaining power, then what does that tell us? Not enough interest in left-wing politics? Too factionalised to unite as a force? Too comfortable shouting from the sidelines? Take your pick.

 

 

No, it tells us we have a dreadful voting system which means that people on the left are stuck having to vote for fucking cunts like Keir Starmer.

[Jack the Sipper]

3 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

 

No, it tells us we have a dreadful voting system which means that people on the left are stuck having to vote for fucking cunts like Keir Starmer.

 

We do, and I've said that myself on here, long ago. But let's be honest, if PR was going to gain ground as an alternative it was under Corbyn's leadership, a man who's always been on the fringes. But nothing once he sniffed real power.

 

That said, our system hasn't stopped new parties on the right like Ukip and the Brexit Party from having an enormous impact on our politics. Ukip won one seat in the 2017 election with 4 million votes, which was grossly unfair if we're being fair about it, yet they (and then the Brexit Party) directed the course of the governing Tory Party through the next election and beyond to this day.

 

Is there any reason why the left can't mobilise likewise, whether behind an existing left-wing party, or a brand new one, to put pressure on Labour from the left as Farage did with the Tories from the right?

[Jairzinho]

Well, selling their message wouldn't be as easy. Their leader wouldn't be allowed on Question Time once a month, nor would daily national newspapers do their bidding. In fact, the likes of the Guardian would (do) guard the parameters of acceptable debate and ridicule them. 

 

 

[Anubis]

Well done to the 10 Labour peers who voted the correct way last night. You may have lost, but at least you can face the public and tell them you did what you could to curtail the powers the police now have.

[Scooby Dudek]

4 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

 

No, it tells us we have a dreadful voting system which means that people on the left are stuck having to vote for fucking cunts like Keir Starmer.

Also a shocking coincidence that the only two parties mentioned that don't want to change FPTP are Tories and Labour 

In fact, Labour members do want to change but the totally pro democracy leadership have already said they will completely ignore the will of the members.

[Jairzinho]

1 minute ago, Scooby Dudek said:

Also a shocking coincidence that the only two parties mentioned that don't want to change FPTP are Tories and Labour 

In fact, Labour members do want to change but the totally pro democracy leadership have already said they will completely ignore the will of the members.

 

Fantastic stuff.

 

And to think some people are questioning them.

[Scooby Dudek]

3 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

 

Fantastic stuff.

 

And to think some people are questioning them.

In case I am accused of misrepresentation;

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/keir-starmer-labour-proportional-representation-b2329451.html

 

The leaders of the two main parties both went back this week on things they seemed to have said when they were campaigning for the top job. On Thursday, Keir Starmer’s spokesperson said he has a “longstanding view against proportional representation”.

 

It is a view he kept well hidden during the 2020 Labour leadership election, when he said: “On electoral reform, we’ve got to address the fact that millions of people vote in safe seats and they feel their voice doesn’t count. That’s got to be addressed. We will never get full participation in our electoral system until we do that at every level.

At the time, I thought his choice of words was curious, but that it clearly implied a proportional system. The Electoral Reform Society put out a press release headed: “Keir Starmer announces support for … proportional representation.” Starmer did not complain.

 

[Scooby Dudek]

https://bylinetimes.com/2023/04/27/keir-starmer-now-opposes-scrapping-westminsters-voting-system-for-pr-in-blow-for-reformers/

 

 

But Starmer’s official spokesperson has now revealed that the Labour Leader has a “long-standing view against proportional representation”. When asked to clarify if the Labour leader was against PR he said “yes”.

 

“He isn’t looking to change the electoral system…It’s not something that’s a priority for him,” Starmer’s spokesperson added.

 

Labour delegates overwhelmingly backed PR at last year’s party conference – after mega-unions Unison and Unite supported the shift. But they do not control the manifesto – a process that is steered by the Labour Leader and his allies on the National Executive Committee.

 

Starmer has repeatedly refused to commit to changing the system, despite noting during his leadership campaign that many people felt their votes didn’t currently count.

 

But his spokesperson’s latest comments appear to be the first time he has suggested active opposition to PR.

[Rushies tash]

2 hours ago, Jack the Sipper said:

 

We do, and I've said that myself on here, long ago. But let's be honest, if PR was going to gain ground as an alternative it was under Corbyn's leadership, a man who's always been on the fringes. But nothing once he sniffed real power.

 

That said, our system hasn't stopped new parties on the right like Ukip and the Brexit Party from having an enormous impact on our politics. Ukip won one seat in the 2017 election with 4 million votes, which was grossly unfair if we're being fair about it, yet they (and then the Brexit Party) directed the course of the governing Tory Party through the next election and beyond to this day.

 

Is there any reason why the left can't mobilise likewise, whether behind an existing left-wing party, or a brand new one, to put pressure on Labour from the left as Farage did with the Tories from the right?

 

It's a good idea, but there's absolutely no way a left wing party would be given any airtime - certainly not in the way Farage was seemingly pushed onto every BBC political program a few years back, or 'think tanks' like the IEA. Corbyn's treatment should tell you how any left wing alternative would be treated by the media. They'd be finished before they even began. And this is also why the Labour leadership will never allow PR. They'd haemorrhage votes the moment a moderately credible left wing alternative appeared.

[Gnasher]

 

 

 

[Bjornebye]

11 hours ago, Jack the Sipper said:

it's a bit of an insult to the likes of the Greens, the Socialist Labour Party, Socialist Workers Party, the Communist Party of Great Britain, the Northern Independence Party and others, to say that there's nowhere

for the working man of the left to go. And if the argument is that none of these field enough candidates or have a chance of attaining power, then what does that tell us? Not enough interest in left-wing politics? Too factionalised to unite as a force? Too comfortable shouting from the sidelines? Take your pick.

 

I see threads on here with people complaining about how conservative this country is, and how the people are conditioned by the press to think, to vote in a certain way, then I come on threads like this and see the same people expressing incredulity that the Labour Party are also recognising that in their bid to win power and kick the fucking Tories out.

 

Leftists aren't pissed off that there's no party for them to vote for. They're pissed off that the Labour Party, after a brief flirtation with leftism, has returned to the business of trying to win elections. Problem is, the Labour Party doesn't owe it to the left to represent them, not at the expense of representing millions of working people who don't have left wing views, and especially not at the expense of being in government bringing about change.

 

Because capitalism, right wing methods and centrist flip flopping has worked so well? 

 

Get your head out of your arse mate. People are pissed off and have every right to want change even if it's radical because what we have had that hasn't been radical has been shite for a lot of people. 

 

Left wing people have every right to want a change. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

As long as Labour's front bench has room for people like the good doctor, I won't have any time for the "they're all the same" cynics.

https://www.unison.org.uk/news/2023/06/rosena-allin-khan-shares-labours-vision-for-mental-health/ 

[Section_31]

3 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

As long as Labour's front bench has room for people like the good doctor, I won't have any time for the "they're all the same" cynics.

https://www.unison.org.uk/news/2023/06/rosena-allin-khan-shares-labours-vision-for-mental-health/ 

 

This is still the fundamental point for me, the raw material of the rank and file MPs. There are some good people in the PLP. 

[Jairzinho]

20 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

 

This is still the fundamental point for me, the raw material of the rank and file MPs. There are some good people in the PLP. 

 

Yes, the biggest cunts are in the shadow cabinet.

[Section_31]

1 minute ago, Jairzinho said:

 

Yes, the biggest cunts are in the shadow cabinet.

I like Rayner and red Ed.

[Jairzinho]

2 hours ago, Section_31 said:

I like Rayner and red Ed.

 

Had no idea Ed was back in the shadow cabinet. Yeah, he's sound,

 

Reeves, Lammy, Ashworth, Reynolds, Streeting and Powell are all either utterly useless or massive twats (or both).

[Bjornebye]

Another step to the right for Labour today, this time in Birkenhead. 

[Creator Supreme]

Sorry, but can't forgive Red Ed, for posing with that fucking rag when he was leader!

[Colonel Bumcunt]

Interesting to hear Phillip Hammond say he'd put money on the GE being held in October 2024.

 

[Captain Howdy]

Streeting saying high earners must pay more tax 

 

[Anubis]

The World Record attempt on abandoned pledges continues apace. A particularly impressive one, here.

 

[Poor Scouser T]

4 minutes ago, Anubis said:

The World Record attempt on abandoned pledges continues apace. A particularly impressive one, here.

 

How is utilising natural recourses when in the middle of a global energy crisis and we are all skint a bad thing? 

[Creator Supreme]

On 16/06/2023 at 19:24, Bjornebye said:

Another step to the right for Labour today, this time in Birkenhead. 

Alison McGovern?

[Creator Supreme]

7 minutes ago, Poor Scouser T said:

How is utilising natural recourses when in the middle of a global energy crisis and we are all skint a bad thing? 

Because it will add to the destruction of the planet!

[Poor Scouser T]

The planet will not be destroyed it is a myth. We might. Essential difference.