Rafa no longer guarantees fourth

[Hermes]

Wenger saying Henry will be at Arsenal next season a month before he left for Barcelona?

 

I don't know if he did, but that is not the same thing is it? How did that bring pressure on Wenger, the players or the club?

[Antynwa]

Depressing.

 

Please leave Rafa...Please

[Cardie]

I don't know if he did, but that is not the same thing is it? How did that bring pressure on Wenger, the players or the club?

 

You asked me to name a time a manager has guarenteed something, so I did.

 

Obviously you'll now come back with a more specific version of a guarantee since the first effort didn't work to well, then refine it again if that one hasn't covered all bases......

Edited March 14, 2010 by Cardie

[piscinin]

Name another occassion when a manager has guaranteed anything. He brought extra pressure on himself and the players with that statement, yet another screw up.

 

This does sound like a screw-up, but only until you actually think about it. Seriously, the pressure of fan expectation to win the title far exceeds any junk the press can dream up. If the players are going to fold under the pressure of a couple of hacks criticizing the manager then we've different problems altogether. It's not like they've had six years of dealing with hacks talking bollocks.

[Hermes]

This does sound like a screw-up, but only until you actually think about it. Seriously, the pressure of fan expectation to win the title far exceeds any junk the press can dream up. If the players are going to fold under the pressure of a couple of hacks criticizing the manager then we've different problems altogether. It's not like they've had six years of dealing with hacks talking bollocks.

 

The point is that it was always going to be brought up every time we dropped points. There was no need to say it, why give the press extra ammunition to hit him with?

 

It was the same with the Ferguson rant last season. What he said was right, everybody knows it was right. The timing and the way it was put over was wrong and it totally back-fired.

[piscinin]

The point is that it was always going to be brought up every time we dropped points. There was no need to say it, why give the press extra ammunition to hit him with?

 

It was the same with the Ferguson rant last season. What he said was right, everybody knows it was right. The timing and the way it was put over was wrong and it totally back-fired.

 

You give far too much credit to the press IMO. The players know it's all bollocks. I remember an interview with Carragher when the press were cranking up the pressure during the zonal marking debate, he said to some journo, "Why would I listen to you about it, I understand it, you don't".

 

The only people who suffer from stuff like this is the fans in the banter war. Who then project it.

[Lucky Pierre]

so he hasnt said no to the top 4?

[Lucky Pierre]

RAFA GO! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH! FUCKO FFFFFFF!

[rage]

rafa and his cocksucker dwindling army of apologist true fans need to go now.

 

although i also reckon everyone of these cocksuckers were sucking upto houllier right upto the end.

 

rafa's still deluded by the way, we'll do well to finish in any european position.

[big-murdo]

The way we are playing, we have very little chance of 4th. As Thommo said on Sky yesterday, he fears that we will only get 6th or 7th.

You now have Everton entering the fold along with Villa, Spurs and City.

Out of that lot we are playing the worst.

[King Emlyn]

I don't think it matters which way you paint it, it was a stupid thing to say.

[Sarb24]

It was very stupid, but to say this nowis just as bad

 

He guaranteed something not in his control. Now he looks even more stupid. Should have concentrated on football rather than talking. He'll be mocked even more now

[big-murdo]

Should have concentrated on football rather than talking. He'll be mocked even more now

 

Was that not a problem last season as well?...after his little rant about Fergie

[Sarb24]

There was no need for it last season. This time he should not have said it. Team has been shit and all it would achieve is to put pressure on himself and the players

 

in my opinion he can't say now it doesn't matter what people think about what he guaranteed before. It does matter. If he doesn't get what he guaranteed he should walk. His quotes are getting more stupid than those of Houllier

[ali]

Truth can be hard to swallow when you feed on soundbites

 

 

Sunday March 14 2010

 

N othing happened last week that wasn't a lie. The image of this deceitful week was David Beckham with the green and gold scarf representing the anti-Glazer movement wrapped around his neck. The green and gold campaign is perhaps the most gloriously subversive movement in modern football.

 

The refusal of the leaders of this campaign to be satisfied with Premier League titles is the most uplifting aspect of their organisation. It is common to hear radio presenters who feel they must contribute in some way when handing over to the sports bulletin to ask. "What more do Manchester United fans want? They've won the league three years in a row." What they want is simple: they want their club not to be owned by leverage kings. They want a sense that their club belongs to them.

 

Just as Manchester United did commercially in the 1990s, the Manchester United Supporters Trust (MUST) have quickly turned this feeling into a worldwide movement.

 

United have been rattled, banning their players from talking about the protest, ejecting a fan who refused to take off a scarf when appearing on MUTV and sacking a steward who handed back an anti-Glazer banner to a fan. Soon MUTV will have to stop showing footage from their early years of Premiership dominance as some of their finest moments were in the green and gold they revived that season to commemorate the centenary of Newton Heath's entry into the league.

 

As football experiences a downturn, questions are being asked about what clubs mean and whom they belong to, especially in the case of clubs like Portsmouth who have been owned by quite a few people in the course of one season.

 

This is not Mary McAleese embracing the hair-shirt but a recognition of football's importance. MUST have established that English football clubs can have a soul that transcends commercial imperatives and even the trophies Manchester United win. They would not want to resist the possibility of being associated with Beckham. Perhaps it made sense that the green and gold scarf was the picture everybody printed ahead of shots of Wayne Rooney.

 

Rooney is one of the greatest players the English game has produced, but destroying a Milan side that is a parody of their great teams was not a test. Last week, we were told that English clubs would face tough examinations in Europe when this was clearly a lie. Arsenal may have trailed Porto but their subsequent victory was no surprise. It was reported that it was a substantial achievement but only because the same reporters had been trying to sell an Arsenal victory as something historic beforehand. None of it was true.

 

Nobody is interested. The media occasionally complains about the pr bumph they are now fed or the sanitised quotes they line up to collect, but most are happy with it. Former players are wheeled out to talk about a game because they have played for both clubs and are therefore "uniquely placed". They would be more uniquely placed if they managed to say something interesting. And they probably wouldn't be asked back.

 

Clarence Seedorf was on the BBC last week and when asked if Beckham still showed the same dedication he had when he was young and stayed behind after training to practise free-kicks, he answered, in the most diplomatic fashion, that no he doesn't, none of them has the time. This went unremarked. Beckham had created an agenda and nobody wanted to dispute it.

 

When he was asked after the game if this would be his last appearance at Old Trafford, Beckham seemed startled and could only mumble "possibly". His last appearance at Old Trafford or Wembley or wherever is another week's arc. Last week's narrative was about his return and he wasn't going to be shifted off the agenda by one loose question.

 

Most of the time, everyone is happy to go along with the pre-planned script. There is as much originality and daring in most sports reporting as there is in the banter between presenters at the Oscars. The agenda is set out and if the mob are in pursuit of an outrage, all the better. They go along for the ride, displaying their fearlessness only when they ask Rafael Benitez a few tough questions.

 

Benitez was accused of being "unhelpful" by Craig Burley after Liverpool's spineless defeat to Wigan because he gave short and despondent answers to the ESPN interviewer. Giving out about pundits like Burley is like shooting fish -- really, really stupid fish -- in a barrel but as they keep setting the agenda it is always necessary to have some ammunition at hand. Add to that, the idea that what is needed is more eejitry in the form of emails and texts from members of the public and the media in general deserves nothing more than soundbites. The only shaft of light was jockey Robert Thornton's statement that he would not be conducting any post-race interviews at Cheltenham because they were "cringeworthy. I just don't know what they expect you to say except 'I feel wonderful, thanks'."

 

Thornton didn't need to graduate from journalism college to know that the only question they ask at these moments is, "How do you feel?" Thornton won't be interviewed on his horse this week, telling them how he feels or even telling them how his horse feels.

 

"I think it's a shame," Nick Attenborough, the PR executive for Racing for Change, whatever that means, said. "We hope the vast majority of owners, trainers and jockeys can see the value in communicating the thrills of winning to the millions of TV viewers that love the sport."

 

It would have been nice to have seen Attenborough taking Lester Piggott aside and explaining "the value in communicating the thrills of winning". Lester saw little point in communicating the thrills of winning to owners and trainers, let alone anyone else. There is no mental image of Lester in a tearful embrace with Vincent O'Brien singing 'Ole, Ole, Ole' and wrapped in a tricolour. To the long fellow even Frankie Dettori's flying dismount would seem like a vulgar extravagance.

 

When Lester came out of retirement and won the Breeders' Cup on Royal Academy, the peerless Brough Scott had the job of asking him to communicate the thrills of winning. He didn't ask him, "How do you feel?" He asked him "How did you do it?", a transcendentally different question. "You never forget," Lester said. He was dealing only in the truth.

 

dfanning@independent.ie

 

 

Truth can be hard to swallow when you feed on soundbites - Other Sports, Sport - Independent.ie

[navbasi]

Then why tell the press?

 

He was probably asked the question on his thoughts regarding 4th... What would you rather him said at the time.. "I'm not sure really, hopefully we can do it...."

 

I also remembering him saying that he has to remain positive, because if he doesn't beleive it then what sort of message is that sending to him players..

 

Either way, he was in a no win situation.

[navbasi]

Truth can be hard to swallow when you feed on soundbites

 

 

Sunday March 14 2010

 

N othing happened last week that wasn't a lie. The image of this deceitful week was David Beckham with the green and gold scarf representing the anti-Glazer movement wrapped around his neck. The green and gold campaign is perhaps the most gloriously subversive movement in modern football.

 

The refusal of the leaders of this campaign to be satisfied with Premier League titles is the most uplifting aspect of their organisation. It is common to hear radio presenters who feel they must contribute in some way when handing over to the sports bulletin to ask. "What more do Manchester United fans want? They've won the league three years in a row." What they want is simple: they want their club not to be owned by leverage kings. They want a sense that their club belongs to them.

 

Just as Manchester United did commercially in the 1990s, the Manchester United Supporters Trust (MUST) have quickly turned this feeling into a worldwide movement.

 

United have been rattled, banning their players from talking about the protest, ejecting a fan who refused to take off a scarf when appearing on MUTV and sacking a steward who handed back an anti-Glazer banner to a fan. Soon MUTV will have to stop showing footage from their early years of Premiership dominance as some of their finest moments were in the green and gold they revived that season to commemorate the centenary of Newton Heath's entry into the league.

 

As football experiences a downturn, questions are being asked about what clubs mean and whom they belong to, especially in the case of clubs like Portsmouth who have been owned by quite a few people in the course of one season.

 

This is not Mary McAleese embracing the hair-shirt but a recognition of football's importance. MUST have established that English football clubs can have a soul that transcends commercial imperatives and even the trophies Manchester United win. They would not want to resist the possibility of being associated with Beckham. Perhaps it made sense that the green and gold scarf was the picture everybody printed ahead of shots of Wayne Rooney.

 

Rooney is one of the greatest players the English game has produced, but destroying a Milan side that is a parody of their great teams was not a test. Last week, we were told that English clubs would face tough examinations in Europe when this was clearly a lie. Arsenal may have trailed Porto but their subsequent victory was no surprise. It was reported that it was a substantial achievement but only because the same reporters had been trying to sell an Arsenal victory as something historic beforehand. None of it was true.

 

Nobody is interested. The media occasionally complains about the pr bumph they are now fed or the sanitised quotes they line up to collect, but most are happy with it. Former players are wheeled out to talk about a game because they have played for both clubs and are therefore "uniquely placed". They would be more uniquely placed if they managed to say something interesting. And they probably wouldn't be asked back.

 

Clarence Seedorf was on the BBC last week and when asked if Beckham still showed the same dedication he had when he was young and stayed behind after training to practise free-kicks, he answered, in the most diplomatic fashion, that no he doesn't, none of them has the time. This went unremarked. Beckham had created an agenda and nobody wanted to dispute it.

 

When he was asked after the game if this would be his last appearance at Old Trafford, Beckham seemed startled and could only mumble "possibly". His last appearance at Old Trafford or Wembley or wherever is another week's arc. Last week's narrative was about his return and he wasn't going to be shifted off the agenda by one loose question.

 

Most of the time, everyone is happy to go along with the pre-planned script. There is as much originality and daring in most sports reporting as there is in the banter between presenters at the Oscars. The agenda is set out and if the mob are in pursuit of an outrage, all the better. They go along for the ride, displaying their fearlessness only when they ask Rafael Benitez a few tough questions.

 

Benitez was accused of being "unhelpful" by Craig Burley after Liverpool's spineless defeat to Wigan because he gave short and despondent answers to the ESPN interviewer. Giving out about pundits like Burley is like shooting fish -- really, really stupid fish -- in a barrel but as they keep setting the agenda it is always necessary to have some ammunition at hand. Add to that, the idea that what is needed is more eejitry in the form of emails and texts from members of the public and the media in general deserves nothing more than soundbites. The only shaft of light was jockey Robert Thornton's statement that he would not be conducting any post-race interviews at Cheltenham because they were "cringeworthy. I just don't know what they expect you to say except 'I feel wonderful, thanks'."

 

Thornton didn't need to graduate from journalism college to know that the only question they ask at these moments is, "How do you feel?" Thornton won't be interviewed on his horse this week, telling them how he feels or even telling them how his horse feels.

 

"I think it's a shame," Nick Attenborough, the PR executive for Racing for Change, whatever that means, said. "We hope the vast majority of owners, trainers and jockeys can see the value in communicating the thrills of winning to the millions of TV viewers that love the sport."

 

It would have been nice to have seen Attenborough taking Lester Piggott aside and explaining "the value in communicating the thrills of winning". Lester saw little point in communicating the thrills of winning to owners and trainers, let alone anyone else. There is no mental image of Lester in a tearful embrace with Vincent O'Brien singing 'Ole, Ole, Ole' and wrapped in a tricolour. To the long fellow even Frankie Dettori's flying dismount would seem like a vulgar extravagance.

 

When Lester came out of retirement and won the Breeders' Cup on Royal Academy, the peerless Brough Scott had the job of asking him to communicate the thrills of winning. He didn't ask him, "How do you feel?" He asked him "How did you do it?", a transcendentally different question. "You never forget," Lester said. He was dealing only in the truth.

 

dfanning@independent.ie

 

 

Truth can be hard to swallow when you feed on soundbites - Other Sports, Sport - Independent.ie

 

This guy is one of the best journos around at the moment, I haven't read a bad piece from him.

[navbasi]

Name another occassion when a manager has guaranteed anything. He brought extra pressure on himself and the players with that statement, yet another screw up.

 

Ahhh, poor players, having to play under a little pressure. If they can't handle that sort of pressure, then I don't think they should be here.

[Code]

So what. The message was intended for the players not the press or the fans.

 

Are you for real?

 

Why say it it in the press then, it was intended for the fans to try to cover up yet again that he does not have a clue about what he is doing anymore.

 

He failed miserably though, just like he has done with most transfers the last three years.

[Catch22]

Are you for real?

 

Why say it it in the press then, it was intended for the fans to try to cover up yet again that he does not have a clue about what he is doing anymore.

 

He failed miserably though, just like he has done with most transfers the last three years.

 

So you don't like people saying 1 thing to the press & then completely the opposite a few weeks later?

 

Fair enough, but why not apply the same consistency to your beloved Xabi when he told the Spanish press he would have been "stupid" not to move away from being paid in a depreciated currency with higher taxes & then told the English a few weeks later that money was not a factor?

 

Those inconsistencies made no difference to the fact that he is an excellent player not does these interviews change the fact that Rafa is an excellent manager who has won both the most important competition & the best league on reduced budgets, something noone else has done in the modern age.

 

What football people say to the media is a load of PR lies, marketing guff or just irrelevant nonsense.

[navbasi]

rafa and his cocksucker dwindling army of apologist true fans need to go now.

 

although i also reckon everyone of these cocksuckers were sucking upto houllier right upto the end.

 

rafa's still deluded by the way, we'll do well to finish in any european position.

 

Good to see that you have moved the debate on with this "great" post. Knob.

[Iantn]

He failed miserably though, just like he has done with most transfers the last three years.

 

Most generally means nearly all and if that's what you mean then it's bollocks.

[Code]

So you don't like people saying 1 thing to the press & then completely the opposite a few weeks later?

 

Fair enough, but why not apply the same consistency to your beloved Xabi when he told the Spanish press he would have been "stupid" not to move away from being paid in a deprecaited currency with higher taxes & then told the English a few weeks later that money was not a factor?

 

What football people say to the media is a load of PR lies, marketing guff or just irrelevant nonsense.

 

If Xabi was our manager he would be able to guarentee fourth though.

 

Like I said in the summer, Xabi is a wise guy, he probably knew that he would never win anything again under Rafa so he looked for a move after being a close hand witness to the madness that was going on.

[Moo]

Rafa's long since admitted it was a mistake saying it in the first place, so why is this still news?

Unfortunately there's many dogs with many bones at the moment.

[Catch22]

If Xabi was our manager he would be able to guarentee fourth though.

 

Like I said in the summer, Xabi is a wise guy, he probably knew that he would never win anything again under Rafa so he looked for a move after being a close hand witness to the madness that was going on.

 

He still said 2 completely different things to the press though, which is your bone of contention, lying to the British press after telling his native country the truth.

 

And of course he is a wise man: Wise man don't turn down £50m when offered it.

 

Whilst his footballing ambitions,although very much secondary, are like all RM players, to win the most important trophy in club football which is the CL, which he is as likely to achieve as us getting 4th this year.