Transgender stuff - what's going on?

[Pidge]

It sounds like a further issue as, if you think gender services are inadequate, wait until you hear about the autism assessment waiting list...

[Rico1304]

28 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

 dont normally comment on this subject, but I find it a bit odd why all these middle age men are utterly obsessed, because a person they dont know has decided to change gender, and it doesnt affect them in the slightest.. 

 

I don’t think anyone on here is likely to be bombed in Palestine but…

[Arniepie]

3 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

 

I don’t think anyone on here is likely to be bombed in Palestine but…

i dont think anyone on here dictates life choices,made by the average palestinian

[Rico1304]

4 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

i dont think anyone on here dictates life choices,made by the average palestinian

 Children aren’t capable of making life choices. Particularly when they are given no or incorrect data.  It’s a medical scandal, but I can see why you wouldn’t think giving kids mastectomies, risking cancer, sterilisation, slowing brain development and putting them on a pathway to a lifetime of drugs isn’t important.  Oh, hold on…

[Champ]

15 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

How does this part sound when read slowly:

 

Children/ young people referred to NHS gender services must receive a holistic assessment of their needs to inform an individualised care plan. This should include screening for neurodevelopmental conditions, including autism spectrum disorder, and a mental health assessment.

 

 

I’m not sure what you’re getting at. Tell me what you’re thinking because nothing’s jumping out at me

[TheHowieLama]

10 minutes ago, Champ said:

I’m not sure what you’re getting at. Tell me what you’re thinking because nothing’s jumping out at me

 

Seems to imply an underlying mental issue in these cases don't you think? 

[Pidge]

4 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

Seems to imply an underlying mental issue in these cases don't you think? 

 

Oh, not sure about that. The report, just in terminology distinguishes between usage of gender incongruence and dysphoria as avoiding the perception of being perceived as purely a mental illness.

 

I think it's included as much about parts of holistic assessment that are often missed, or done poorly. Haven't got to that bit of the report though, even on a scan through.

[Rico1304]

20 minutes ago, Champ said:

I’m not sure what you’re getting at. Tell me what you’re thinking because nothing’s jumping out at me

kids were rushed to blockers and social transition without exploring other reasons for dysphoria. The kids were all massively over represented in autism, other mental health issues and even sexual abuse. 

[Champ]

5 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

Seems to imply an underlying mental issue in these cases don't you think? 

There is increasing evidence of young people presenting to services with gender identity issues being assessed as having autistic spectrum disorder conditions but everyone in the field is/should be learning and one does not exclude the other and not everyone presenting with gender identity issues will be assessed to have mental health disorders or conditions

[AngryOfTuebrook]

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/c7f4e6ba-607b-4a9b-8b7b-6c38c272934e

 

[Paulie Dangerously]

39 minutes ago, Pidge said:

It sounds like a further issue as, if you think gender services are inadequate, wait until you hear about the autism assessment waiting list...

 

80 weeks in Sefton last I heard 

 

 

[Champ]

Just now, Paulie Dangerously said:

 

80 weeks in Sefton last I heard 

 

 

Services are absolutely overwhelmed 

[TheHowieLama]

10 minutes ago, Champ said:

There is increasing evidence of young people presenting to services with gender identity issues being assessed as having autistic spectrum disorder conditions but everyone in the field is/should be learning and one does not exclude the other and not everyone presenting with gender identity issues will be assessed to have mental health disorders or conditions

 

That is across the board though - it is astounding the increase in these assessments. To include it there seemed strange to me when I would imagine that would be of equal concern for every patient. Unless there is evidence that those conditions are more prevalent in kids seeking gender therapy.

Is it that providers are getting better at the assessment itself? Or understanding the results more thoroughly?

Why such a dramatic jump?

 

[Pidge]

21 minutes ago, Paulie Dangerously said:

 

80 weeks in Sefton last I heard 

 

 

I stumbled across the NHS dataset tracking this last year while doing some research for work and I have never seen a more clearly broken pathway. There is no capacity at all, totally underfunded and over utilised.

 

Referral guidance needs an overhaul (and I feel safe in the assumption that NICE have done a good job, it's just the landscape has changed).

[Paulie Dangerously]

Double post.

[Arniepie]

1 hour ago, Rico1304 said:

 Children aren’t capable of making life choices. Particularly when they are given no or incorrect data.  It’s a medical scandal, but I can see why you wouldn’t think giving kids mastectomies, risking cancer, sterilisation, slowing brain development and putting them on a pathway to a lifetime of drugs isn’t important.  Oh, hold on…

yep

because thats exactly what i said

[TheHowieLama]

53 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

kids were rushed to blockers and social transition without exploring other reasons for dysphoria. The kids were all massively over represented in autism, other mental health issues and even sexual abuse. 

 

By whom? 

[Paulie Dangerously]

53 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

That is across the board though - it is astounding the increase in these assessments. To include it there seemed strange to me when I would imagine that would be of equal concern for every patient. Unless there is evidence that those conditions are more prevalent in kids seeking gender therapy.

Is it that providers are getting better at the assessment itself? Or understanding the results more thoroughly?

Why such a dramatic jump?

 

 

In terms of ASD/C numbers jumping it is identification really. Children are being identified much earlier in schools and put on the pathway, rather than just being labelled thick or naughty. Schools get extra money for children with specific SEND diagnosis which the skint councils have to pay for so the councils drag their feet with educational psychologists and resist handing out EHCPs as best as they can because they can't afford it. The system is well and truly goosed. 

 

I could moan about this for hours but doesn't seem the thread. 

 

Covid seems to have had a huge impact on numbers and actually forcing parents to spend time trying to teach their own kids and realising something isn't right. 

 

[TheHowieLama]

3 minutes ago, Paulie Dangerously said:

it is identification really.

 

Agreed, and it is up massively across the board. In the context of this discussion that is why it seemed odd to me that was pointed out. Unless there is a reason for it and Rico's response is it imo.

Whether there is data to back it up or not there certainly seems to be an undercurrent of thought that a kid experiencing gender issues is more likely to be Id'ed. 

[Champ]

15 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

Agreed, and it is up massively across the board. In the context of this discussion that is why it seemed odd to me that was pointed out. Unless there is a reason for it and Rico's response is it imo.

Whether there is data to back it up or not there certainly seems to be an undercurrent of thought that a kid experiencing gender issues is more likely to be Id'ed. 

These issues were exceptionally rare to non existent when I first started working but responding to the distress of young people who present with gender identity issues has become an increasingly significant part of our work. As time has gone by it has also emerged that many of these young people who are seen by medical and psychological services are being assessed as being on the autistic spectrum. I’m not sure whether they’re 2 separate conditions or if gender identity is a young person seeking to find an explanation for their difficulties negotiating the world around them.

 

But you’re right, Howie, if as I think you’re suggesting, this group is getting access to ASD assessments not open to the wider population which may in itself be skewing the figures

[Babb'sBurstNad]

I've been waiting for an ADHD assessment since last August. These kids need to get in line.

[Moo]

4 hours ago, Arniepie said:

 dont normally comment on this subject, but I find it a bit odd why all these middle age men are utterly obsessed, because a person they dont know has decided to change gender, and it doesnt affect them in the slightest.. 

 

Well no I suppose not, and I don't understand why it should be an obsession - I suspect that's due to a lot of rubbish going on in the country - pick a side, entrench yourself and defend your position.  But, it might affect their loved ones and they're allowed to care about them.

[Pidge]

One step ADHD diagnosis for blokes is to count the number of toilet rolls they have on the go at any given time. More than one suggests a behavioural pattern of being easily distracted...

 

 

 

(this might not be sufficient for a full diagnosis)

[Arniepie]

7 minutes ago, Moo said:

 

Well no I suppose not, and I don't understand why it should be an obsession - I suspect that's due to a lot of rubbish going on in the country - pick a side, entrench yourself and defend your position.  But, it might affect their loved ones and they're allowed to care about them.

it was more a reference to a man is a man and a woman is a woman brigade.

[Rico1304]

Are the morons still parroting the ‘funded by the religious right’ bollocks?  

 

Julie Bindel

Sal Grover (who is likely to lose her case this week for having the temerity to set up a women’s only app)

Alison Bailey

Helen Joyce

Kathleen Stock

JKR

Jo Phoenix 

 

 

Here’s the notable far right conservative JKR.  
 

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1778106037251236076?s=46&t=wTmhxkVCGgzL1q3_vvfmTA